Jeremy has verified Rogues can use Magic stone cantrip for sneak attack damage. I want to base a Rogue character around this 60' no disadvantage! My question is about what can and cannot stack with this cantrip. Assuming a multiclass to get the feats.
If meta magic distance can change range of touch to 30'. Can you pick stones you can see within 30'. Then an action to attack with them is needed, but it doesn't have to be right away. They are fresh for a minute. Conceivably, could a Wizard Catapult 1st level work upon that same stone? Is a 1lb stone considered a pebble? That comparison is relative.
It is presumed the magic stone is propelled with an attack action. What if catapult cantrip is used rather than a sling? I may lose the sneak attack bonus but If the target doesn't make the Dex save, would the target take 3d8 from catapult stacked with 1d6 of magic stone?
Independent from Catapult concept, is being hit with the magic stone (because this is so unique from all the other attack cantrips) I interpret that because it does allow for sneak attack damage which defined ad "The attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon." So magic stone is a ranged weapon.
Would the Archer Feat allow you to add +2 to your spell attack roll as a ranged weapon? Thrown or sling makes sense to me.
Couldn't Battle Master pushing maneuver apply? Bludgeoning damage from a weapon, ok.
How about the Crusher feat stacking with magic stone? OK. Same as BM maneuver works also.
Please help me better understand the correct and applicable mechanics for this unique situation. What can I and cannot I not stack?
The Distant Spell Metamagic would indeed let you enchant the stones from up to 30 feet away.
Magic stone specifically works on pebbles, while catapult specifically works on objects weighing 1 to 5 pounds. That'd have to be a real big pebble. If you can get your hands on a 1-5 pound pebble, though, then catapult could technically be used on it. It would only do the normal catapult damage, though, so I don't see why you'd want to.
Crusher would completely work with magic stone, as the spell fits the requirements of the feat (attack that deals bludgeoning damage).
The Pushing Attack maneuver would not work with magic stone, as it requires a weapon attack, whereas magic stone is a spell attack.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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IMO, some of these ideas are not going to work RAW.
Spells do what they say. In the case of magic stone, "You touch one to three pebbles and imbue them with magic". I can tell that this isn't going to be a popular interpretation but to me this means that the Distant Spell Metamagic will not work as intended. You must be touching the pebbles as per the spell description (not just as per the defined range for the spell).
Likewise, with magic stone you "make a ranged spell attack with one of the pebbles by throwing it or hurling it with a sling". Casting the catapult spell is not throwing it or hurling it with a sling so this will not work as intended. IMO it would be the same as casting catapult with any old pebble.
Crusher feat seems fine.
You get the sneak attack bonus with magic stone not so much because "magic stone is a ranged weapon" as you put it, but more because you are throwing a stone or using a sling when you make your attack and these actions qualify as attacking with a ranged weapon. The spell has already done its job of imbuing the pebbles with magic in such a way that you can (optionally) use your spellcasting modifier when making these attacks.
The Archery fighting style +2 bonus would apply since it is an attack with a ranged weapon.
The battlemaster pushing maneuver would not apply since this is a ranged spell attack, even though you are attacking with a ranged weapon (yep, that's weird).
IMO, some of these ideas are not going to work RAW.
Spells do what they say. In the case of magic stone, "You touch one to three pebbles and imbue them with magic". I can tell that this isn't going to be a popular interpretation but to me this means that the Distant Spell Metamagic will not work as intended. You must be touching the pebbles as per the spell description (not just as per the defined range for the spell).
Maybe. But, to be fair, I couldn't find a single spell with a range of touch that actually uses its range. Contagion and inflict wounds both use your reach without referencing the range of the spell, shillelagh specifies that you have to be holding the target and never references the range, and shocking grasp pretty much says diddly squat about who you can target. Plenty more examples, too. Not saying that you're wrong, just that if you choose to read the text that way, then it affects much more than just magic stone.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Hmm, you may be right. I just quickly checked through like 65 - 70 spells with Touch range and only found 5 that might work with an expanded range where the spell description isn't explicitly mentioning touching or handling the target in some way. Many of which have a similar theme. These are Glyph of Warding, Simulacrum, Symbol, Guards and Wards, and Forbiddance. So maybe that's too strict or maybe the concept of expanding Touch range to 30 feet isn't well thought out. Not sure -- I'd be curious to see a few more opinions chime in on that.
Hmm, you may be right. I just quickly checked through like 65 - 70 spells with Touch range and only found 5 that might work with an expanded range where the spell description isn't explicitly mentioning touching or handling the target in some way. Many of which have a similar theme. These are Glyph of Warding, Simulacrum, Symbol, Guards and Wards, and Forbiddance. So maybe that's too strict or maybe the concept of expanding Touch range to 30 feet isn't well thought out. Not sure -- I'd be curious to see a few more opinions chime in on that.
Even of those 5 spells, simulacrum is the only one that actually uses its range in the description. All others just practically ignore it, even if they don't have text that specifically overwrites it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Jeremy has verified Rogues can use Magic stone cantrip for sneak attack damage. I want to base a Rogue character around this 60' no disadvantage! My question is about what can and cannot stack with this cantrip. Assuming a multiclass to get the feats.
If meta magic distance can change range of touch to 30'. Can you pick stones you can see within 30'. Then an action to attack with them is needed, but it doesn't have to be right away. They are fresh for a minute. Conceivably, could a Wizard Catapult 1st level work upon that same stone? Is a 1lb stone considered a pebble? That comparison is relative.
It is presumed the magic stone is propelled with an attack action. What if catapult cantrip is used rather than a sling? I may lose the sneak attack bonus but If the target doesn't make the Dex save, would the target take 3d8 from catapult stacked with 1d6 of magic stone?
Independent from Catapult concept, is being hit with the magic stone (because this is so unique from all the other attack cantrips) I interpret that because it does allow for sneak attack damage which defined ad "The attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon." So magic stone is a ranged weapon.
Would the Archer Feat allow you to add +2 to your spell attack roll as a ranged weapon? Thrown or sling makes sense to me.
Couldn't Battle Master pushing maneuver apply? Bludgeoning damage from a weapon, ok.
How about the Crusher feat stacking with magic stone? OK. Same as BM maneuver works also.
Please help me better understand the correct and applicable mechanics for this unique situation. What can I and cannot I not stack?
Using Distant Spell Metagamic on magic stone will let you touch one to three pebbles from up to 30 feet away and imbue them with magic. The range at which the pebbles can be thrown or hurled after spellcasting remain unchanged.
DM has to determine if the pebbles can be used with catapult as some may not consider pebbles to be 1-5 pound rock but much lighter one.
A magic stone hurled with a sling work with Sneak Attack and any other feature that benefit such attacks made with a weapon.
The Archery Fighting Style works with a magic stone. made with a sling.
The Pushing Attack Maneuver doesn't work on a magic stone because it's a spell attack, not a weapon attack.
The Crusher feat work with magic stone being an attack that deal bludgeoning damage.
Jeremy has verified Rogues can use Magic stone cantrip for sneak attack damage. I want to base a Rogue character around this 60' no disadvantage! My question is about what can and cannot stack with this cantrip. Assuming a multiclass to get the feats.
If meta magic distance can change range of touch to 30'. Can you pick stones you can see within 30'. Then an action to attack with them is needed, but it doesn't have to be right away. They are fresh for a minute. Conceivably, could a Wizard Catapult 1st level work upon that same stone? Is a 1lb stone considered a pebble? That comparison is relative.
It is presumed the magic stone is propelled with an attack action. What if catapult cantrip is used rather than a sling? I may lose the sneak attack bonus but If the target doesn't make the Dex save, would the target take 3d8 from catapult stacked with 1d6 of magic stone?
Independent from Catapult concept, is being hit with the magic stone (because this is so unique from all the other attack cantrips) I interpret that because it does allow for sneak attack damage which defined ad "The attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon." So magic stone is a ranged weapon.
Would the Archer Feat allow you to add +2 to your spell attack roll as a ranged weapon? Thrown or sling makes sense to me.
Couldn't Battle Master pushing maneuver apply? Bludgeoning damage from a weapon, ok.
How about the Crusher feat stacking with magic stone? OK. Same as BM maneuver works also.
Please help me better understand the correct and applicable mechanics for this unique situation. What can I and cannot I not stack?
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
IMO, some of these ideas are not going to work RAW.
Spells do what they say. In the case of magic stone, "You touch one to three pebbles and imbue them with magic". I can tell that this isn't going to be a popular interpretation but to me this means that the Distant Spell Metamagic will not work as intended. You must be touching the pebbles as per the spell description (not just as per the defined range for the spell).
Likewise, with magic stone you "make a ranged spell attack with one of the pebbles by throwing it or hurling it with a sling". Casting the catapult spell is not throwing it or hurling it with a sling so this will not work as intended. IMO it would be the same as casting catapult with any old pebble.
Crusher feat seems fine.
You get the sneak attack bonus with magic stone not so much because "magic stone is a ranged weapon" as you put it, but more because you are throwing a stone or using a sling when you make your attack and these actions qualify as attacking with a ranged weapon. The spell has already done its job of imbuing the pebbles with magic in such a way that you can (optionally) use your spellcasting modifier when making these attacks.
The Archery fighting style +2 bonus would apply since it is an attack with a ranged weapon.
The battlemaster pushing maneuver would not apply since this is a ranged spell attack, even though you are attacking with a ranged weapon (yep, that's weird).
Maybe. But, to be fair, I couldn't find a single spell with a range of touch that actually uses its range. Contagion and inflict wounds both use your reach without referencing the range of the spell, shillelagh specifies that you have to be holding the target and never references the range, and shocking grasp pretty much says diddly squat about who you can target. Plenty more examples, too. Not saying that you're wrong, just that if you choose to read the text that way, then it affects much more than just magic stone.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Hmm, you may be right. I just quickly checked through like 65 - 70 spells with Touch range and only found 5 that might work with an expanded range where the spell description isn't explicitly mentioning touching or handling the target in some way. Many of which have a similar theme. These are Glyph of Warding, Simulacrum, Symbol, Guards and Wards, and Forbiddance. So maybe that's too strict or maybe the concept of expanding Touch range to 30 feet isn't well thought out. Not sure -- I'd be curious to see a few more opinions chime in on that.
Even of those 5 spells, simulacrum is the only one that actually uses its range in the description. All others just practically ignore it, even if they don't have text that specifically overwrites it.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Using Distant Spell Metagamic on magic stone will let you touch one to three pebbles from up to 30 feet away and imbue them with magic. The range at which the pebbles can be thrown or hurled after spellcasting remain unchanged.
DM has to determine if the pebbles can be used with catapult as some may not consider pebbles to be 1-5 pound rock but much lighter one.
A magic stone hurled with a sling work with Sneak Attack and any other feature that benefit such attacks made with a weapon.
The Archery Fighting Style works with a magic stone. made with a sling.
The Pushing Attack Maneuver doesn't work on a magic stone because it's a spell attack, not a weapon attack.
The Crusher feat work with magic stone being an attack that deal bludgeoning damage.