So was in a conversation last week about the spell Polymorph and temporary hit points. According to the spell "The target gains a number of Temporary Hit Points equal to the Hit Points of the Beast form. The spell ends early on the target if it has no Temporary Hit Points left."
However the discussion came up of what happens in if the caster loses concentration? The spell doesn't specify the temporary hit points are lost; I tried this out in an adventure, which the fight should have ended in 10 minutes, but I had a wizard cast Polymorph on himself to turn into a T-Rex. After one attack, he was hit and lost concentration but had the extra 130 some hit points left. I swear this fight lasted a good 45-50 minutes because of the extra hit points the wizard had. He also had the ability to cast again but I had some sympathy on my group.
Does this seem to be overpowering? Did I read this right?
So was in a conversation last week about the spell Polymorph and temporary hit points. According to the spell "The target gains a number of Temporary Hit Points equal to the Hit Points of the Beast form. The spell ends early on the target if it has no Temporary Hit Points left."
However the discussion came up of what happens in if the caster loses concentration? The spell doesn't specify the temporary hit points are lost; I tried this out in an adventure, which the fight should have ended in 10 minutes, but I had a wizard cast Polymorph on himself to turn into a T-Rex. After one attack, he was hit and lost concentration but had the extra 130 some hit points left. I swear this fight lasted a good 45-50 minutes because of the extra hit points the wizard had. He also had the ability to cast again but I had some sympathy on my group.
Does this seem to be overpowering? Did I read this right?
There has been a lot of debate about this question on this forum, without reaching any really satisfactory conclusion. One argument is that the spell doesn't say that the temporary hit points go away when the spell ends, so they should last until the next long rest. The other argument says that the general rules for spellcasting say that all the effects of a spell end when the spell ends unless explicitly stated otherwise. RAW, it's a gray area (for now, at least) without a clear right answer.
However, it certainly doesn't seem like the intent of this spell is to give someone a huge pile of temp HP that stick with them when they lose the alternative form they've transformed into. That does not seem thematically correct.
As @wagnarokkr said, there are at least a couple of threads discussing this topic (see below).
In my opinion, considering how Concentration and Duration rules work, the spell effects should end when Concentration is broken or the spell's Duration expires, and that should include the Temporary Hit Points.
Some spells and other effects require Concentration to remain active, as specified in their descriptions. If the effect’s creator loses Concentration, the effect ends. [...]
Does this seem to be overpowering? Did I read this right?
This is the wrong question to ask. You as the DM are not supposed to ensure 100% perfect linguistic interpretation of the rule books. You as the DM are supposed to ensure the game is fun to play for everyone at the table. So the question is: is it fun for everyone at the table for certain player characters or the entire party to get 130+ temporary hit points every adventuring day from the Wizard casting Polymorph on them and then breaking their concentration?
I think polymorph should mirror wild shape more. The spell description needs to be clearer about willing targets. Thematically, polymorph is fun for these scenarios:
constraining an enemy to a weaker form
boosting the health of the caster or an ally
giving the caster or an ally, beast abilities for a specific scenario
I think Tasha would enhance polymorph by making the ally scenario clearer and only giving a moderate boost to health with the ability to upcast. With upcast giving access to higher temp HP, True Polymorph fits into the shape shift genre better by giving the full HP of creature to the target. Otherwise, you would only cast true polymorph for the creature aspect and rarely use it for a beast form.
Tasha's Wild Polymorph
You attempt to transform a creature that you can see within range into a Beast. The target must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or shape-shift into Beast form for the duration. That form can be any Beast you choose that has a Challenge Rating equal to or less than the target’s (or the target’s level if it doesn’t have a Challenge Rating). If the target is willing to transform into the chosen beast, no saving throw is required. The target’s game statistics are replaced by the stat block of the chosen Beast, but the target retains its alignment, personality, creature type, Hit Points, and Hit Point Dice.
The target gains a number of Temporary Hit Points equal to the target's Hit Point Dice like the Druid wild shape ability. The spell ends early on an unwilling target if it has no Temporary Hit Points left. A willing target can also leave the form early as a Bonus Action. If the caster is the target, they can choose to break their concentration to leave the form.
The target is limited in the actions it can perform by the anatomy of its new form, and it can’t speak or cast spells. The target’s gear melds into the new form. The creature can’t use or otherwise benefit from any of that equipment.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 5th level or higher, the Temporary Hit Points are doubled. Using a 6th level spell slot, they are tripled and so forth.
So was in a conversation last week about the spell Polymorph and temporary hit points. According to the spell "The target gains a number of Temporary Hit Points equal to the Hit Points of the Beast form. The spell ends early on the target if it has no Temporary Hit Points left."
However the discussion came up of what happens in if the caster loses concentration? The spell doesn't specify the temporary hit points are lost; I tried this out in an adventure, which the fight should have ended in 10 minutes, but I had a wizard cast Polymorph on himself to turn into a T-Rex. After one attack, he was hit and lost concentration but had the extra 130 some hit points left. I swear this fight lasted a good 45-50 minutes because of the extra hit points the wizard had. He also had the ability to cast again but I had some sympathy on my group.
Does this seem to be overpowering? Did I read this right?
There has been a lot of debate about this question on this forum, without reaching any really satisfactory conclusion. One argument is that the spell doesn't say that the temporary hit points go away when the spell ends, so they should last until the next long rest. The other argument says that the general rules for spellcasting say that all the effects of a spell end when the spell ends unless explicitly stated otherwise. RAW, it's a gray area (for now, at least) without a clear right answer.
However, it certainly doesn't seem like the intent of this spell is to give someone a huge pile of temp HP that stick with them when they lose the alternative form they've transformed into. That does not seem thematically correct.
pronouns: he/she/they
As @wagnarokkr said, there are at least a couple of threads discussing this topic (see below).
In my opinion, considering how Concentration and Duration rules work, the spell effects should end when Concentration is broken or the spell's Duration expires, and that should include the Temporary Hit Points.
This is the wrong question to ask. You as the DM are not supposed to ensure 100% perfect linguistic interpretation of the rule books. You as the DM are supposed to ensure the game is fun to play for everyone at the table. So the question is: is it fun for everyone at the table for certain player characters or the entire party to get 130+ temporary hit points every adventuring day from the Wizard casting Polymorph on them and then breaking their concentration?
I really like this sentence you wrote.
I think polymorph should mirror wild shape more. The spell description needs to be clearer about willing targets. Thematically, polymorph is fun for these scenarios:
I think Tasha would enhance polymorph by making the ally scenario clearer and only giving a moderate boost to health with the ability to upcast. With upcast giving access to higher temp HP, True Polymorph fits into the shape shift genre better by giving the full HP of creature to the target. Otherwise, you would only cast true polymorph for the creature aspect and rarely use it for a beast form.
Tasha's Wild Polymorph
You attempt to transform a creature that you can see within range into a Beast. The target must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or shape-shift into Beast form for the duration. That form can be any Beast you choose that has a Challenge Rating equal to or less than the target’s (or the target’s level if it doesn’t have a Challenge Rating). If the target is willing to transform into the chosen beast, no saving throw is required. The target’s game statistics are replaced by the stat block of the chosen Beast, but the target retains its alignment, personality, creature type, Hit Points, and Hit Point Dice.
The target gains a number of Temporary Hit Points equal to the target's Hit Point Dice like the Druid wild shape ability. The spell ends early on an unwilling target if it has no Temporary Hit Points left. A willing target can also leave the form early as a Bonus Action. If the caster is the target, they can choose to break their concentration to leave the form.
The target is limited in the actions it can perform by the anatomy of its new form, and it can’t speak or cast spells. The target’s gear melds into the new form. The creature can’t use or otherwise benefit from any of that equipment.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 5th level or higher, the Temporary Hit Points are doubled. Using a 6th level spell slot, they are tripled and so forth.
* - (a caterpillar cocoon)