How does a character not go flying when hit by a club swung by a giant who is over twice as big?? Or go flying when schwacked by the tail of an ancient red dragon?
Well, you can make them, its just up to the DM, as a DM i do this only really for flavor
Edit:Also not all hits would send someone flying, a dragons tail might trip a character or a giants club might cause them to skid a bit, A hill giant is 16 feet and a person is 6 feet tall, its not like they are a golf ball hit by a driving iron with a certain motion to send that thing flying, also a overhand hit from a giant and that would push them into the ground
Hit points do not equal meat points, therefore, getting hit doesn't necessarily mean getting "hit." The injury could represent a glancing blow, or just general fatigue as the character dodges out of the way, or their luck running out. Or maybe the swing came straight down from overhead.
Also, that opens a real can of worms. If you're going to let size large creatures do that to medium, then what about a goliath barbarian smacking a kobold?
And finally, hits that move targets was a big feature in 4e. While personally, I thought it was fun and made the fights more dynamic, the designers have done everything they can to eliminate any traces of 4e.
I want to add some flare, some worry instead of just swing hit, swing hit. Kind of force the players to be more tactiful and a little worried. I might add a certain percentage of the damage given by the giants club results in a ST or Dex save or go flying some. Or maybe if it is a certain number above their AC, like if 5 more than AC be moved or proned. Or maybe a natural 18, 19, 20 gives it to them.
yes, I understand glancing blow, or overhead swing. But I also understand realism in a fantasy game is hard to get.
It just seems, like players take no worries for some encounters based on rules of the game, but if they were actually facing a giant in real life they would let's say be way more cautious.
If you want realism then the Giants cannot swing the way they do in the movies or in your imagination. Big = slow and almost too heavy to move.
If you do not want realism, then we are strong enough to block their huge swings of tree sized clubs etc.
But according to the cube-squared law, if you want realism then:
Giants are large with very thick legs and short spindly looking arms. Think elephant feet and elephant trunks.
They carry thin weapons that look more like staves than giant clubs
They never swing - that would over-balance them. Most of the time they would lift and drop things. Slowly. So it would be easy to avoid a direct hit (critical) but hard to avoid a glancing blow.
Well if you look at the official art for DnD red dragon you can see despite the tail being long it is rather thin, so i think it is far more likely to be used as a lash or a tripping method than a club
Edit: I am looking at the Adult red dragon art as reference, the tail is thin compared to other dragons but looks big because of a "spine" on the tail
Now a adult blue dragon could swat someone with ease, the tail of a blue dragon is thick In my opinion Blue, Black, and White dragons could knock a player back Copper and Greens tail is questionable Bronze, Brass,Gold, Silver, and Red could not based on the tail
But that is my opinion and as you all know my opinions are do not matter unless i am the DM at the table
Also giants are not that big in DnD A Hill giant is 16 feet tall A Troll is 9 feet tall A Cyclops 11-18 feet A Ogre 10 feet Now the base giant is like 26 feet tall but still, not THAT tall If you were to compare me at the age 16 i was 6ft 2 and my brother was at the time 4ft 5 thats roughy 2 and a half feet taller or 39.62% taller if you were to apply that as if i was a troll(9ft ish) and my brother was 6ft 2 I roundhouse kicked my brother at the time and he barely moved, if you added plate mail to it and heavy gear im sure the movement would be less and that was a strong kick that cracked 2 of his ribs(we found out a week later that they were cracked lol)
I've played games that used knockback mechanics before, like the superhero RPG Mutants & Masterminds. Even developers of that game quickly admitted that the knockback rules for when a super-strong character hit a smaller character and sent them flying were a mistake and dropped them quickly. D&D has rules for forced movement via spells and special abilities, trying to add it for every attack based on size differences between the attacker and the target would badly complicate the game. It'd be worse than 3rd Edition's rules for Attacks of Opportunity.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
But what about an ancient red dragon tail swipe? the person should go flying across the cavern floor.
I believe Mog was highlighting the problem with introducing "realistic" events into the game. A dragon, for example, couldn't fly in real life. And a giant would collapse under its own weight, as bones as we understand them are not sufficiently strong enough to support something the size of a giant. So, picking out some things and doing them because they seem more realistic opens up a lot of different confusing points. Generally, it comes down to, why choose this one thing and say it's not OK and should be changed when there are numerous other things are equally unrealistic and are still OK?
Certainly, there are a lot of people who do just that and build house rules around what they see as inconstancies. I'm not trying to say they (or you) are wrong to do it -- you should play the game however you like. My point is more, I think it's important to accept it is a game, not a simulation of reality, and just go with the rules of the game. To go with a previous example of yours, if the players were facing an actual giant in real life, they wouldn't have one friend toward the back about to shoot lightning out of their fingertips while another was surrounded by a circle of spirits guarding them and their allies. Once you start accepting that magic is a thing and spells are fine and make sense, it gets kind of weird to try and bring earth-physics into the equation. (Not to mention, in more practical game terms, it kind of screws the martial classes, since they're the ones that are going to be getting knocked around while the wizard is 60 feet away.)
As far as the tail swipe. There is no mention in the dragon's description of how the tail functions and is constructed (art doesn't count; the pictures do not define game terms). We know it has a 20' reach, but that's all the information there is about its size, at least by RAW. Any conception of its relative size or strength is just going to come down to individual head-canon.
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How does a character not go flying when hit by a club swung by a giant who is over twice as big?? Or go flying when schwacked by the tail of an ancient red dragon?
Well, you can make them, its just up to the DM, as a DM i do this only really for flavor
Edit:Also not all hits would send someone flying, a dragons tail might trip a character or a giants club might cause them to skid a bit, A hill giant is 16 feet and a person is 6 feet tall, its not like they are a golf ball hit by a driving iron with a certain motion to send that thing flying, also a overhand hit from a giant and that would push them into the ground
Hit points do not equal meat points, therefore, getting hit doesn't necessarily mean getting "hit." The injury could represent a glancing blow, or just general fatigue as the character dodges out of the way, or their luck running out. Or maybe the swing came straight down from overhead.
Also, that opens a real can of worms. If you're going to let size large creatures do that to medium, then what about a goliath barbarian smacking a kobold?
And finally, hits that move targets was a big feature in 4e. While personally, I thought it was fun and made the fights more dynamic, the designers have done everything they can to eliminate any traces of 4e.
I want to add some flare, some worry instead of just swing hit, swing hit. Kind of force the players to be more tactiful and a little worried. I might add a certain percentage of the damage given by the giants club results in a ST or Dex save or go flying some. Or maybe if it is a certain number above their AC, like if 5 more than AC be moved or proned. Or maybe a natural 18, 19, 20 gives it to them.
yes, I understand glancing blow, or overhead swing. But I also understand realism in a fantasy game is hard to get.
It just seems, like players take no worries for some encounters based on rules of the game, but if they were actually facing a giant in real life they would let's say be way more cautious.
But thinks for the imput.
If you want realism then the Giants cannot swing the way they do in the movies or in your imagination. Big = slow and almost too heavy to move.
If you do not want realism, then we are strong enough to block their huge swings of tree sized clubs etc.
But according to the cube-squared law, if you want realism then:
I disagree with your realism of giants.
But what about an ancient red dragon tail swipe? the person should go flying across the cavern floor.
Well if you look at the official art for DnD red dragon you can see despite the tail being long it is rather thin, so i think it is far more likely to be used as a lash or a tripping method than a club
Edit: I am looking at the Adult red dragon art as reference, the tail is thin compared to other dragons but looks big because of a "spine" on the tail
Now a adult blue dragon could swat someone with ease, the tail of a blue dragon is thick
In my opinion Blue, Black, and White dragons could knock a player back
Copper and Greens tail is questionable
Bronze, Brass,Gold, Silver, and Red could not based on the tail
But that is my opinion and as you all know my opinions are do not matter unless i am the DM at the table
Also giants are not that big in DnD
A Hill giant is 16 feet tall
A Troll is 9 feet tall
A Cyclops 11-18 feet
A Ogre 10 feet
Now the base giant is like 26 feet tall but still, not THAT tall
If you were to compare me at the age 16 i was 6ft 2 and my brother was at the time 4ft 5
thats roughy 2 and a half feet taller or 39.62% taller
if you were to apply that as if i was a troll(9ft ish) and my brother was 6ft 2
I roundhouse kicked my brother at the time and he barely moved, if you added plate mail to it and heavy gear im sure the movement would be less
and that was a strong kick that cracked 2 of his ribs(we found out a week later that they were cracked lol)
I've played games that used knockback mechanics before, like the superhero RPG Mutants & Masterminds. Even developers of that game quickly admitted that the knockback rules for when a super-strong character hit a smaller character and sent them flying were a mistake and dropped them quickly. D&D has rules for forced movement via spells and special abilities, trying to add it for every attack based on size differences between the attacker and the target would badly complicate the game. It'd be worse than 3rd Edition's rules for Attacks of Opportunity.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Amen, also if you had a player whos size is small and a player whos size is large they could make a PC trenchbucket
I believe Mog was highlighting the problem with introducing "realistic" events into the game. A dragon, for example, couldn't fly in real life. And a giant would collapse under its own weight, as bones as we understand them are not sufficiently strong enough to support something the size of a giant. So, picking out some things and doing them because they seem more realistic opens up a lot of different confusing points. Generally, it comes down to, why choose this one thing and say it's not OK and should be changed when there are numerous other things are equally unrealistic and are still OK?
Certainly, there are a lot of people who do just that and build house rules around what they see as inconstancies. I'm not trying to say they (or you) are wrong to do it -- you should play the game however you like. My point is more, I think it's important to accept it is a game, not a simulation of reality, and just go with the rules of the game. To go with a previous example of yours, if the players were facing an actual giant in real life, they wouldn't have one friend toward the back about to shoot lightning out of their fingertips while another was surrounded by a circle of spirits guarding them and their allies. Once you start accepting that magic is a thing and spells are fine and make sense, it gets kind of weird to try and bring earth-physics into the equation. (Not to mention, in more practical game terms, it kind of screws the martial classes, since they're the ones that are going to be getting knocked around while the wizard is 60 feet away.)
As far as the tail swipe. There is no mention in the dragon's description of how the tail functions and is constructed (art doesn't count; the pictures do not define game terms). We know it has a 20' reach, but that's all the information there is about its size, at least by RAW. Any conception of its relative size or strength is just going to come down to individual head-canon.