Lightfoot Haflings have the ability Naturally Stealthy. It allows them to hide if they are near a medium sized or larger creature.
Can they use this ability to hide from the creature that is larger than them? Meaning, if they are next to a giant, can they use the giant to hide from the same giant?
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"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
ThriKreenWarrior is correct. A creature is aware of their environment all around them. They are not looking in any particular direction. So while you could use a giant to obscure yourself from other creatures, you cannot use the giant to obscure yourself from the same giant.
Lightfoot Haflings have the ability Naturally Stealthy. It allows them to hide if they are near a medium sized or larger creature.
Can they use this ability to hide from the creature that is larger than them? Meaning, if they are next to a giant, can they use the giant to hide from the same giant?
Naturally Stealthy doesn't let hem "hide if they are neara medium-sized or larger creature" (emphasis mine), which might be the cause of your confusion. Assuming the halfling is small, Naturally Stealthy will let them try to hide if they are obscured by a medium-sized or larger creature. So the answer to your question is no, because it's not based on proximity, it's based on being obscured.
The halfling trait Naturally Stealthy let you attempt to hide even when you are only obscured by a creature that is at least one size larger than you. Official ruling in Sage Advice further clarify you do so behind it.
So a halfling can't attempt To hide from the creature obscuring it since it's in full view of it being behind no other creature to obscure it.
Normally, you can’t hide from someone if you’re in full view. A lightfoot halfling, though, can try to vanish behind a creature that is at least one size large.
But yes, you can hide behind a teammate or another opponent if they stay put, but not the target(s) you are attempting to hide from. On another note, you get to move freely through everyone's location which really helps with placement if you are using a grid.
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IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
Is there a roll involved in the Hide attempt? If a halfling doesn't have Stealth as a skill, is it a straight DEX check?
The "Naturally Stealthy" class feature only changes when you can try to hide, it doesn't change how.
So you would still have to take the Hide action to try to become hidden.
Hide
When you take the Hide action, you make a Dexterity (Stealth) check in an attempt to hide, following the rules for hiding. If you succeed, you gain certain benefits, as described in the "Unseen Attackers and Targets" section later in this chapter.
And as always, if you don't have proficiency in a skill that is being used you default to the base stat. In this case it would be a straight Dex check yes.
For reference, here is the rule for Naturally Stealthy:
Naturally Stealthy. You can attempt to hide even when you are obscured only by a creature that is at least one size larger than you.
I'll also bring up an interpretation for Hiding that seems to be somewhat unpopular in these forums: Within the immediate area, you are either Hidden or you are not. You can't be Hidden from some enemies while not Hidden from others. This comes directly from the rule for Hiding:
When you try to hide, make a Dexterity (Stealth) check. Until you are discovered or you stop hiding, that check's total is contested by the Wisdom (Perception) check of any creature that actively searches for signs of your presence.
So, according to the rules, your efforts to remain Hidden persist until you are discovered. Once you are discovered, you are no longer Hidden until you successfully take another Hide action.
The point is, if you subscribe to this interpretation of Hiding, you really can't use the Halfling's Naturally Stealthy feature to Hide behind an enemy. This is because that enemy immediately sees you and discovers you, at which point you are no longer Hidden. Remember,
The DM decides when circumstances are appropriate for hiding.
This makes perfect sense. If your party enters an open room and engages in battle with 2 hostile giants, how does the Halfling expect this to work? One giant gets into a melee fight with the Halfling while the other giant is in melee with other members of the party. The Halfling now "Hides" behind this giant who is swinging weapons at him to somehow be hidden from the other giant? That makes no sense of course. If instead the Halfling remained carefully behind an ally while the party begins fighting these giants and that ally obscures the view of BOTH giants, NOW this Halfling might be Hidden from the giants (if he successfully stays quiet enough in the process).
No, you can indeed hide next to your allies because your allies are not attempting to actively or passively "notice" you and they are not "actively searching for signs of your presence" which are the requirements for causing the stealth check to expire. The rule for Hiding spells this out:
. . . make a Dexterity (Stealth) check. Until you are discovered or you stop hiding, that check's total is contested by the Wisdom (Perception) check of any creature that actively searches for signs of your presence.
. . .
. . . even if they aren't searching. To determine whether such a creature notices you, the DM compares your Dexterity (Stealth) check with that creature's passive Wisdom (Perception) score . . .
Your stealth check persists forever until you are discovered or you stop hiding. Conversely, once you are discovered, that stealth check is no longer used in skill contests. In other words, you are no longer Hidden.
Stealth isn't against enemy but any creature, so do allies perceive you and will passively notice you next to them.
Passive Perception. When you hide, there's a chance someone will notice you even if they aren't searching. To determine whether such a creature notices you, the DM compares your Dexterity (Stealth) check with that creature's passive Wisdom (Perception) score.
I disagree with this. Your allies are not actively searching for you and they do not passively "notice" you in order to discover you.
This is a bit more clear when reviewing other rules such as the ones in Chapter 8: Adventuring where the phrase "notice" is used specifically with respect to Noticing Threats. Likewise, in that same section the term "stealth" is used with respect to other creatures they encounter:
Noticing Threats
Use the passive Wisdom (Perception) scores of the characters to determine whether anyone in the group notices a hidden threat.
and
Stealth
While traveling at a slow pace, the characters can move stealthily. As long as they’re not in the open, they can try to surprise or sneak by other creatures they encounter.
We can see that there is no mention of trying to surprise or sneak by creatures that we are already travelling with. You can remain stealthy while located next to an ally.
In addition, when it comes to noticing threats, the rule goes on to describe how a DM might determine that one or more characters do not apply their passive perception to these contests if, for example, a threat can only be noticed by a certain rank in the marching order. Or, a character might be turning their full attention to another task such as tracking or foraging in which case their passive perception is essentially "turned off".
So, there is plenty of precedent within the game for situations to arise where a creature does NOT "automatically" notice or attempt to notice another nearby creature. Being located next to an ally is just another obvious example.
Since you can't hide from a creature that can see you clearly, whenever an ally or enemy creature do, you either can be hidden from other creatures who can't see you clearly, or not be able to hide at all. One way makes group stealth literally impossible to achieve.
You never attempt to Hide from allies though unless you believe that your ally is a potential threat -- or more specifically, if your ally would believe that you are a potential threat and therefore would actively search for you or passively notice you (as a threat) in such a manner that they would "discover" you.
Remember, the DM decides if and when the situation is appropriate to attempt to Hide. If you are allowed to make such an attempt, you roll a Stealth check, and that check follows the rules and procedures given by the rules for Hiding:
When you try to hide, make a Dexterity (Stealth) check. Until you are discovered or you stop hiding, that check's total is contested by the Wisdom (Perception) check of any creature that actively searches for signs of your presence.
. . .
When you hide, there's a chance someone will notice you even if they aren't searching.
None of this applies to allies. Allies will not contest your Stealth roll with their Perception score since you are not a threat that they are trying to perceive. This is all spelled out in the rules.
When any game element only affect friendly creature, it says so. Hiding doesn't say that, it instead say "When you hide, there's a chance someone will notice you even if they aren't searching. To determine whether such a creature notices you, the DM compares your Dexterity (Stealth) check with that creature's passive Wisdom (Perception) score"
Hiding is a Dexterity (Stealth) contest versus any creature's Wisdom (Perception), therefore you are hidden from any creature you hide from until discovered by it, after they win such contest. Your ally are likely to discover you, but not any other enemies that failed the contest or hasn't made it yet. This allow group stealth.
Imagine 3 hidden creatures are moving stealthily in the woods, unaware of each others, not because one of them perceive another that the other(s) also suddenly discovers unless also successfully perceiving them. Hence why an individual contest DEX vs WIS for each hider vs perceiver support more possibilities.
That's not the rule though. The stealth check exists only until you are discovered. Once you are discovered you are no longer Hidden because you no longer have a stealth check.
Hiding only comes into play when creatures are in close enough proximity that they would otherwise automatically notice each other if they were not hiding. For example, if you teleport to a dead planet with no other creatures and you attempt to Hide, it doesn't really do anything because your stealth check will never be contested.
So, in your example where 3 creatures are in the woods and each of them would consider the other 2 creatures to be a threat (perhaps a Hunger Games style conflict) -- we should assume that they are close enough so that if one of them was not trying to Hide that the other 2 creatures would automatically notice them immediately. In fact, we see this elsewhere in the rules for the game regarding resolving random encounters:
"The DM determines who might be surprised. If neither side tries to be stealthy, they automatically notice each other." See how the word "notice" is used over and over in the game to mean noticing a threat.
In your example, the only reason why these creatures do not automatically notice each other is because they are Hidden. The possibility for noticing a threat in that case involves a contest as detailed in the rules for Hiding. By rule, when any of these creatures in your example discovers another, that creature is no longer Hidden and therefore becomes noticed automatically. The rules don't always work perfectly for every situation but the rules are what they are.
Surprise is a different rule that is only occur if you doesn't notice a threat, we're talking solely of Hiding rules here that can happen independently. Imagine round 1 already occured, why would creatures uaware of other hidden creatures because they failed to perceive one suddenly spot it because other creatures that they don't know of did successfully perceive it?
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Lightfoot Haflings have the ability Naturally Stealthy. It allows them to hide if they are near a medium sized or larger creature.
Can they use this ability to hide from the creature that is larger than them? Meaning, if they are next to a giant, can they use the giant to hide from the same giant?
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
No. You occupy your own space and you can’t hide behind a creature you are trying to hide from. At least that’s how I read it and would rule it
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
ThriKreenWarrior is correct. A creature is aware of their environment all around them. They are not looking in any particular direction. So while you could use a giant to obscure yourself from other creatures, you cannot use the giant to obscure yourself from the same giant.
Naturally Stealthy doesn't let hem "hide if they are near a medium-sized or larger creature" (emphasis mine), which might be the cause of your confusion. Assuming the halfling is small, Naturally Stealthy will let them try to hide if they are obscured by a medium-sized or larger creature. So the answer to your question is no, because it's not based on proximity, it's based on being obscured.
The halfling trait Naturally Stealthy let you attempt to hide even when you are only obscured by a creature that is at least one size larger than you. Official ruling in Sage Advice further clarify you do so behind it.
So a halfling can't attempt To hide from the creature obscuring it since it's in full view of it being behind no other creature to obscure it.
Bilbo Baggins would like a word, haha.
But yes, you can hide behind a teammate or another opponent if they stay put, but not the target(s) you are attempting to hide from. On another note, you get to move freely through everyone's location which really helps with placement if you are using a grid.
IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
Is there a roll involved in the Hide attempt? If a halfling doesn't have Stealth as a skill, is it a straight DEX check?
The "Naturally Stealthy" class feature only changes when you can try to hide, it doesn't change how.
So you would still have to take the Hide action to try to become hidden.
And as always, if you don't have proficiency in a skill that is being used you default to the base stat. In this case it would be a straight Dex check yes.
For reference, here is the rule for Naturally Stealthy:
I'll also bring up an interpretation for Hiding that seems to be somewhat unpopular in these forums: Within the immediate area, you are either Hidden or you are not. You can't be Hidden from some enemies while not Hidden from others. This comes directly from the rule for Hiding:
So, according to the rules, your efforts to remain Hidden persist until you are discovered. Once you are discovered, you are no longer Hidden until you successfully take another Hide action.
The point is, if you subscribe to this interpretation of Hiding, you really can't use the Halfling's Naturally Stealthy feature to Hide behind an enemy. This is because that enemy immediately sees you and discovers you, at which point you are no longer Hidden. Remember,
This makes perfect sense. If your party enters an open room and engages in battle with 2 hostile giants, how does the Halfling expect this to work? One giant gets into a melee fight with the Halfling while the other giant is in melee with other members of the party. The Halfling now "Hides" behind this giant who is swinging weapons at him to somehow be hidden from the other giant? That makes no sense of course. If instead the Halfling remained carefully behind an ally while the party begins fighting these giants and that ally obscures the view of BOTH giants, NOW this Halfling might be Hidden from the giants (if he successfully stays quiet enough in the process).
This would make group stealth literally impossible to achieve.
No, you can indeed hide next to your allies because your allies are not attempting to actively or passively "notice" you and they are not "actively searching for signs of your presence" which are the requirements for causing the stealth check to expire. The rule for Hiding spells this out:
Your stealth check persists forever until you are discovered or you stop hiding. Conversely, once you are discovered, that stealth check is no longer used in skill contests. In other words, you are no longer Hidden.
Stealth isn't against enemy but any creature, so do allies perceive you and will passively notice you next to them.
I disagree with this. Your allies are not actively searching for you and they do not passively "notice" you in order to discover you.
This is a bit more clear when reviewing other rules such as the ones in Chapter 8: Adventuring where the phrase "notice" is used specifically with respect to Noticing Threats. Likewise, in that same section the term "stealth" is used with respect to other creatures they encounter:
and
We can see that there is no mention of trying to surprise or sneak by creatures that we are already travelling with. You can remain stealthy while located next to an ally.
In addition, when it comes to noticing threats, the rule goes on to describe how a DM might determine that one or more characters do not apply their passive perception to these contests if, for example, a threat can only be noticed by a certain rank in the marching order. Or, a character might be turning their full attention to another task such as tracking or foraging in which case their passive perception is essentially "turned off".
So, there is plenty of precedent within the game for situations to arise where a creature does NOT "automatically" notice or attempt to notice another nearby creature. Being located next to an ally is just another obvious example.
Since you can't hide from a creature that can see you clearly, whenever an ally or enemy creature do, you either can be hidden from other creatures who can't see you clearly, or not be able to hide at all. One way makes group stealth literally impossible to achieve.
Thank you!
You never attempt to Hide from allies though unless you believe that your ally is a potential threat -- or more specifically, if your ally would believe that you are a potential threat and therefore would actively search for you or passively notice you (as a threat) in such a manner that they would "discover" you.
Remember, the DM decides if and when the situation is appropriate to attempt to Hide. If you are allowed to make such an attempt, you roll a Stealth check, and that check follows the rules and procedures given by the rules for Hiding:
None of this applies to allies. Allies will not contest your Stealth roll with their Perception score since you are not a threat that they are trying to perceive. This is all spelled out in the rules.
When any game element only affect friendly creature, it says so. Hiding doesn't say that, it instead say "When you hide, there's a chance someone will notice you even if they aren't searching. To determine whether such a creature notices you, the DM compares your Dexterity (Stealth) check with that creature's passive Wisdom (Perception) score"
Hiding is a Dexterity (Stealth) contest versus any creature's Wisdom (Perception), therefore you are hidden from any creature you hide from until discovered by it, after they win such contest. Your ally are likely to discover you, but not any other enemies that failed the contest or hasn't made it yet. This allow group stealth.
Imagine 3 hidden creatures are moving stealthily in the woods, unaware of each others, not because one of them perceive another that the other(s) also suddenly discovers unless also successfully perceiving them. Hence why an individual contest DEX vs WIS for each hider vs perceiver support more possibilities.
That's not the rule though. The stealth check exists only until you are discovered. Once you are discovered you are no longer Hidden because you no longer have a stealth check.
Hiding only comes into play when creatures are in close enough proximity that they would otherwise automatically notice each other if they were not hiding. For example, if you teleport to a dead planet with no other creatures and you attempt to Hide, it doesn't really do anything because your stealth check will never be contested.
So, in your example where 3 creatures are in the woods and each of them would consider the other 2 creatures to be a threat (perhaps a Hunger Games style conflict) -- we should assume that they are close enough so that if one of them was not trying to Hide that the other 2 creatures would automatically notice them immediately. In fact, we see this elsewhere in the rules for the game regarding resolving random encounters:
"The DM determines who might be surprised. If neither side tries to be stealthy, they automatically notice each other." See how the word "notice" is used over and over in the game to mean noticing a threat.
In your example, the only reason why these creatures do not automatically notice each other is because they are Hidden. The possibility for noticing a threat in that case involves a contest as detailed in the rules for Hiding. By rule, when any of these creatures in your example discovers another, that creature is no longer Hidden and therefore becomes noticed automatically. The rules don't always work perfectly for every situation but the rules are what they are.
Surprise is a different rule that is only occur if you doesn't notice a threat, we're talking solely of Hiding rules here that can happen independently. Imagine round 1 already occured, why would creatures uaware of other hidden creatures because they failed to perceive one suddenly spot it because other creatures that they don't know of did successfully perceive it?