So the describtion of Power Word: Pain says: "The target also has disadvantage on attack rolls, ability checks, and saving throws, other than Constitution saving throws. Finally, if the target tries to cast a spell, it must first succeed on a Constitution saving throw, or the casting fails and the spell is wasted."
But there is no specification on what DC they have to make with that Constitution saving throw for their spellcasting to succeed. So is this just a Concentration check and they have to make a DC 10 save so their spell doesn't fail, or is this save against the Spellcaster's DC who cast Power Word Pain on them?
The spellcaster's DC is obviously much stronger so I'm wondering if this spell is meant to almost completely block the enemy's casting unless they have a really good Con save.
If they'd meant it to be a concentration check, they'd've said so, so it's at the caster's DC.
If a spell calls for a save, it's always caster's DC unless otherwise specified.
(Concentration checks are not saving throws, anyway.)
“Taking damage. Whenever you take damage while you are concentrating on a spell, you must make a Constitution saving throw to maintain your concentration.”
The spellcaster's DC is obviously much stronger so I'm wondering if this spell is meant to almost completely block the enemy's casting unless they have a really good Con save.
If depends on the monster and the PC I would say generally there would be a high risk the spell fails it is usually far from a guarantee. Off the top of my head I can't think of a monster with power word pain so I will assume the DM gave it to an Arch Mage (CR12) which has a spell DC of 17. To face an arch mage the party are likely to be between level 9 and 16 (at lower levels the arch mage will be on its own at high levels part of a group). If we assume a caster at this level has a Con of +2 (it is most likely between +1 and +3) then:
If they do not have proficiency in con saves or anything else to help they need a natural 15 for the spell to go through (30%).
If they have proficiency in con saves (e.g .a sorcerer, artificer, or having taken resiliant constitution) they will need a natural 10 or 11 (50-55% chance)
Paladins (and those in their aura) can add their charisma
Their chances can be enhanced by any number of things such as having bless cast on them, flash of genius, or bardic inspiration
Not that it is not a constitution saving throw to maintain concentration (the game rules never refer to a "concentration check" though players often use the term) so war caster doesn't help.
If you really want to disable spellcasting then you need feeblemind.
The spell power word pain ask on more than one occasion to make a Constitution saving throw without any DC so i see no reason for them not to be the caster's DC as detailed in the Saving Throw section to avoid some or all of a spell's effects.
Also, these Constitution saving throws are not to maintain concentration so they have no relation whatsoever and no game element working on such save is applicable here.
Saving Throws: Many spells specify that a target can make a saving throw to avoid some or all of a spell's effects. The spell specifies the ability that the target uses for the save and what happens on a success or failure. The DC to resist one of your spells equals 8 + your spellcasting ability modifier + your proficiency bonus + any special modifiers.
If they'd meant it to be a concentration check, they'd've said so, so it's at the caster's DC.
If a spell calls for a save, it's always caster's DC unless otherwise specified.
(Concentration checks are not saving throws, anyway.)
Yes they are… they are because they are, but this is also explicitly stated in the description of the War Caster Feat, probably the most recognizable place,
“You have advantage on Constitution saving throws that you make to maintain your concentration on a spell when you take damage.”
…and under the Concentration section under Spellcasting in the Basic Rules… “Whenever you take damage while you are concentrating on a spell, you must make a Constitution saving throw to maintain your concentration.”
If they'd meant it to be a concentration check, they'd've said so, so it's at the caster's DC.
If a spell calls for a save, it's always caster's DC unless otherwise specified.
(Concentration checks are not saving throws, anyway.)
Yes they are… they are because they are, but this is also explicitly stated in the description of the War Caster Feat, probably the most recognizable place,
“You have advantage on Constitution saving throws that you make to maintain your concentration on a spell when you take damage.”
…and under the Concentration section under Spellcasting in the Basic Rules… “Whenever you take damage while you are concentrating on a spell, you must make a Constitution saving throw to maintain your concentration.”
That has absolutely nothing to do with Power Word Pain's effects, though.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
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So the describtion of Power Word: Pain says: "The target also has disadvantage on attack rolls, ability checks, and saving throws, other than Constitution saving throws. Finally, if the target tries to cast a spell, it must first succeed on a Constitution saving throw, or the casting fails and the spell is wasted."
But there is no specification on what DC they have to make with that Constitution saving throw for their spellcasting to succeed. So is this just a Concentration check and they have to make a DC 10 save so their spell doesn't fail, or is this save against the Spellcaster's DC who cast Power Word Pain on them?
The spellcaster's DC is obviously much stronger so I'm wondering if this spell is meant to almost completely block the enemy's casting unless they have a really good Con save.
If they'd meant it to be a concentration check, they'd've said so, so it's at the caster's DC.
If a spell calls for a save, it's always caster's DC unless otherwise specified.
(Concentration checks are not saving throws, anyway.)
“Taking damage. Whenever you take damage while you are concentrating on a spell, you must make a Constitution saving throw to maintain your concentration.”
If depends on the monster and the PC I would say generally there would be a high risk the spell fails it is usually far from a guarantee. Off the top of my head I can't think of a monster with power word pain so I will assume the DM gave it to an Arch Mage (CR12) which has a spell DC of 17. To face an arch mage the party are likely to be between level 9 and 16 (at lower levels the arch mage will be on its own at high levels part of a group). If we assume a caster at this level has a Con of +2 (it is most likely between +1 and +3) then:
Not that it is not a constitution saving throw to maintain concentration (the game rules never refer to a "concentration check" though players often use the term) so war caster doesn't help.
If you really want to disable spellcasting then you need feeblemind.
The spell power word pain ask on more than one occasion to make a Constitution saving throw without any DC so i see no reason for them not to be the caster's DC as detailed in the Saving Throw section to avoid some or all of a spell's effects.
Also, these Constitution saving throws are not to maintain concentration so they have no relation whatsoever and no game element working on such save is applicable here.
…
Yes they are… they are because they are, but this is also explicitly stated in the description of the War Caster Feat, probably the most recognizable place,
“You have advantage on Constitution saving throws that you make to maintain your concentration on a spell when you take damage.”
…and under the Concentration section under Spellcasting in the Basic Rules… “Whenever you take damage while you are concentrating on a spell, you must make a Constitution saving throw to maintain your concentration.”
That has absolutely nothing to do with Power Word Pain's effects, though.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.