Can you cast an upcasted spell from a spell scroll?
I am partial to believe that you could, because of this clause
When a spellcaster casts a spell using a slot that is of a higher level than the spell, the spell takes on the higher level for that casting. For instance, if a Wizard casts Magic Missile using a level 2 slot, that Magic Missile is level 2. Effectively, the spell expands to fill the slot it is put into.
Taken from the rules of Casting spells
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Hello! Call me Tana or Gato My pronouns are They/Them (I don't actually care, though) I am a teenager. I have Autism and anxiety. And, you would probably call me Trans, Aromantic, and Asexual I'm nonbinary, yay! But I will mother you if you are being stupid ALL HAIL MERLIN!!!!!!! :[roll]1d8[/roll] + [roll]1d8[/roll] + [roll]1d8[/roll] + [roll]1d8[/roll] = [roll][roll:-4]+[roll:-3]+[roll:-2]+[roll:-1][/roll] I have adopted Golden, Salem, Wes, and Aspen
I will admit that I cannot find specific rules for 2024 at this moment. However, historically a Spell Scroll could hold an 'upcast' spell.
It is important to note that both the rarity of the scroll (which also affects how long it takes to create and its cost) as well as whether an ability check is required is based on the spell slot used.
e.g. a scroll of Magic Missile upcast to Level 5 is a Rare item, takes 25 days to scribe, costs 1,500 GP to make, and requires a DC 15 Attribute Check for any appropriate spell caster who cannot cast 5th level spells.
Can you cast an upcasted spell from a spell scroll?
I am partial to believe that you could, because of this clause
When a spellcaster casts a spell using a slot that is of a higher level than the spell, the spell takes on the higher level for that casting. For instance, if a Wizard casts Magic Missile using a level 2 slot, that Magic Missile is level 2. Effectively, the spell expands to fill the slot it is put into.
Taken from the rules of Casting spells
The rule you're quoting pertains to casting spells using spell slots. You don't use a spell slot when you cast a spell from a scroll (or any magic item) so that rule doesn't apply. Spells cast from items are always cast at their minimum level unless the item description explicitly says otherwise.
The official crafting rules don't provide any way of creating a spell scroll that stores an upcasted version of a spell, but they do exist in "loot" in some published adventures, so some DMs do allow it as a house rule.
Unless the text says otherwise, a spell cast without a spell slot is cast at its lowest possible level, which is the level that appears in its description.
An example of an exception to this is often found in monster stat blocks. A monster with the Spellcasting action may have spells listed with a “(level # version)” parenthetical. This means the spell is still cast without a spell slot, but its effects are equivalent to a version of the spell cast using a spell slot of the specified level.
EDIT: and it's related to the next rules:
Casting without Slots
There are several ways to cast a spell without expending a spell slot:
Cantrips. A cantrip is cast without a spell slot.
Rituals. Certain spells have the Ritual tag in the Casting Time entry. Such a spell can be cast following the normal rules for spellcasting, or it can be cast as a Ritual. The Ritual version of a spell takes 10 minutes longer to cast than normal, but it doesn’t expend a spell slot. To cast a spell as a Ritual, a spellcaster must have it prepared.
Special Abilities. Some characters and monsters have special abilities that allow them to cast specific spells without a spell slot. This casting is usually limited in another way, such as being able to cast the spell a limited number of times per day.
Magic Items.Spell Scrolls and some other magic items contain spells that can be cast without a spell slot. The description of such an item specifies how many times a spell can be cast from it.
Unless the text says otherwise, a spell cast without a spell slot is cast at its lowest possible level, which is the level that appears in its description.
An example of an exception to this is often found in monster stat blocks. A monster with the Spellcasting action may have spells listed with a “(level # version)” parenthetical. This means the spell is still cast without a spell slot, but its effects are equivalent to a version of the spell cast using a spell slot of the specified level.
Exactly. And while there are occasionally items that have similar exceptions — Staff of Healing lets you spend extra charges to upcast Cure Wounds, and Staff of Power automatically upcasts a couple of its spells — scrolls don't have such an exception.
Can you cast an upcasted spell from a spell scroll?
I am partial to believe that you could . . .
Yes. The rules do not actually create any restrictions against doing this.
In the 2014 rules, there were minimum character levels required to be able to craft items of a certain rarity and also part of the crafting process involved actually expending a spell slot of the level that you were crafting so that you had to actually be capable of casting a spell at a certain level in order to make the corresponding spell scroll. However, in the 2024 rules that seems to have changed. Now you must simply have the spell prepared and the strength of the scroll is just dependent upon the time and money that you put into crafting it.
One potential "gotcha" has to do with how to interpret the actual spell descriptions. For the most part, they all say something like:
"Using a Higher-Level Spell Slot. You can target one additional creature for each spell slot level above 1."
So, there is some question when, for example, this spell (Charm Person in this case) is cast "at Level 2" by casting it directly from a Spell Scroll (Level 2) magic item . . . perhaps you do not actually gain the benefit of the above clause within the spell description since you are not actually "using a higher-level spell slot" to cast the spell.
However, there is some precedent within the rules for avoiding such a strict interpretation. For example, consider the Magic Item called "Eyes of Charming":
"For 1 charge, you cast the level 1 version of the spell. You increase the spell’s level by one for each additional charge you expend."
In this magic item description, references are made to "the spell's level" instead of to "using a higher-level spell slot". The implication in this case is that you can use the Eyes of Charming magic item to cast a "level 2 version" of Charm Person which seems intended to enjoy the benefits that are listed in the Charm Person spell description within the "higher-level spell slot" clause.
We already know from the general rules for spellcasting that the concept of the "spell level" is distinct from "the level of the spell slot that is used". Even though the spell descriptions refer to certain effects being created by "using a higher-level spell slot", it seems that these effects are actually meant to be applied whenever the spell is cast at a "higher level" regardless of whether or not using a higher-level spell slot was the method used to achieve that. Otherwise, as written, many published magic items do not actually function as intended.
Can you cast an upcasted spell from a spell scroll?
I am partial to believe that you could . . .
Yes. The rules do not actually create any restrictions against doing this.
The rules explicitly restrict this and TarodNet has already posted the relevant rules. When you cast a spell from a Spell Scroll, you are casting it without a spell slot and it uses the minimum level for the spell.
In the 2014 rules, there were minimum character levels required to be able to craft items of a certain rarity and also part of the crafting process involved actually expending a spell slot of the level that you were crafting so that you had to actually be capable of casting a spell at a certain level in order to make the corresponding spell scroll. However, in the 2024 rules that seems to have changed. Now you must simply have the spell prepared and the strength of the scroll is just dependent upon the time and money that you put into crafting it.
The 2014 rules required you to spend a spell slot of the spell's level but never gave a benefit for using a higher spell slot than required. You may be confusing a house rule with RAW.
However, there is some precedent within the rules for avoiding such a strict interpretation. For example, consider the Magic Item called "Eyes of Charming":
"For 1 charge, you cast the level 1 version of the spell. You increase the spell’s level by one for each additional charge you expend."
In this magic item description, references are made to "the spell's level" instead of to "using a higher-level spell slot". The implication in this case is that you can use the Eyes of Charming magic item to cast a "level 2 version" of Charm Person which seems intended to enjoy the benefits that are listed in the Charm Person spell description within the "higher-level spell slot" clause.
This is a specific item's rule overriding the general for spellcasting and does not apply to other magic items that do not have the same rule in the description. This does not set a precedent.
We already know from the general rules for spellcasting that the concept of the "spell level" is distinct from "the level of the spell slot that is used". Even though the spell descriptions refer to certain effects being created by "using a higher-level spell slot", it seems that these effects are actually meant to be applied whenever the spell is cast at a "higher level" regardless of whether or not using a higher-level spell slot was the method used to achieve that. Otherwise, as written, many published magic items do not actually function as intended.
The spell level is distinct in that it is determined by the spell slot used or defaults the minimum required to cast the spell.
Every spell has a level from 0 to 9, which is indicated in a spell’s description. A spell’s level is an indicator of how powerful it is. Cantrips—simple spells that can be cast almost by rote—are level 0. The rules for each spellcasting class say when its members gain access to spells of certain levels.
Spell Slots
Spellcasting is taxing, so a spellcaster can cast only a limited number of level 1+ spells before resting. Spell slots are the main way a spellcaster’s magical potential is represented. Each spellcasting class gives its members a limited number of spell slots of certain spell levels. For example, a level 3 Wizard has four level 1 spell slots and two level 2 slots.
When you cast a spell, you expend a slot of that spell’s level or higher, effectively “filling” a slot with the spell. Imagine a spell slot is a groove of a certain size—small for a level 1 slot and larger for a higher-level spell. A level 1 spell fits into a slot of any size, but a level 2 spell fits only into a slot that’s at least level 2. So when a level 3 Wizard casts Magic Missile, a level 1 spell, that Wizard spends one of four level 1 slots and has three remaining.
Finishing a Long Rest restores any expended spell slots.
Casting without Slots
There are several ways to cast a spell without expending a spell slot:
Cantrips. A cantrip is cast without a spell slot.
Rituals. Certain spells have the Ritual tag in the Casting Time entry. Such a spell can be cast following the normal rules for spellcasting, or it can be cast as a Ritual. The Ritual version of a spell takes 10 minutes longer to cast than normal, but it doesn’t expend a spell slot. To cast a spell as a Ritual, a spellcaster must have it prepared.
Special Abilities. Some characters and monsters have special abilities that allow them to cast specific spells without a spell slot. This casting is usually limited in another way, such as being able to cast the spell a limited number of times per day.
Magic Items.Spell Scrolls and some other magic items contain spells that can be cast without a spell slot. The description of such an item specifies how many times a spell can be cast from it.
Using a Higher-Level Spell Slot
When a spellcaster casts a spell using a slot that is of a higher level than the spell, the spell takes on the higher level for that casting. For instance, if a Wizard casts Magic Missile using a level 2 slot, that Magic Missile is level 2. Effectively, the spell expands to fill the slot it is put into.
Some spells, such as Magic Missile and Cure Wounds, have more powerful effects when cast at a higher level, as detailed in a spell’s description.
In order to cast a spell at a higher than normal level, you must expend a higher than normal spell slot, unless a specific rule explicitly specifies otherwise. Eyes of Charming only allows you to cast a spell above the default level because of a specific rule allowing it. I think there is an adventure with a higher than normally allowed spell level on a spell scroll or wand, but again that is a specific rule for that one item and not a general rule. You cannot use a standard spell scroll to cast a spell at any other level than the minimum required for the spell and you cannot craft a spell scroll with a spell higher than the minimum required for the spell under 2024 and 2014 RAW.
Can you cast an upcasted spell from a spell scroll?
I am partial to believe that you could, because of this clause
Taken from the rules of Casting spells
Hello! Call me Tana or Gato
My pronouns are They/Them (I don't actually care, though)
I am a teenager. I have Autism and anxiety. And, you would probably call me Trans, Aromantic, and Asexual
I'm nonbinary, yay! But I will mother you if you are being stupid
ALL HAIL MERLIN!!!!!!! :[roll]1d8[/roll] + [roll]1d8[/roll] + [roll]1d8[/roll] + [roll]1d8[/roll] = [roll][roll:-4]+[roll:-3]+[roll:-2]+[roll:-1][/roll]
I have adopted Golden, Salem, Wes, and Aspen
I will admit that I cannot find specific rules for 2024 at this moment. However, historically a Spell Scroll could hold an 'upcast' spell.
It is important to note that both the rarity of the scroll (which also affects how long it takes to create and its cost) as well as whether an ability check is required is based on the spell slot used.
e.g. a scroll of Magic Missile upcast to Level 5 is a Rare item, takes 25 days to scribe, costs 1,500 GP to make, and requires a DC 15 Attribute Check for any appropriate spell caster who cannot cast 5th level spells.
The rule you're quoting pertains to casting spells using spell slots. You don't use a spell slot when you cast a spell from a scroll (or any magic item) so that rule doesn't apply. Spells cast from items are always cast at their minimum level unless the item description explicitly says otherwise.
The official crafting rules don't provide any way of creating a spell scroll that stores an upcasted version of a spell, but they do exist in "loot" in some published adventures, so some DMs do allow it as a house rule.
pronouns: he/she/they
We also have this answer in the SAC:
EDIT: and it's related to the next rules:
EDIT2: a few 2024 threads about the same topic:
- Fiendish Vigor (2024)
- D&D 2024 spell level when not spending a spell slot
- Any Official Statements on how 2024 Features/Feats/Etc granting spells work with Upcasting?
- Ritually Casting a Spell Higher than known?
Exactly. And while there are occasionally items that have similar exceptions — Staff of Healing lets you spend extra charges to upcast Cure Wounds, and Staff of Power automatically upcasts a couple of its spells — scrolls don't have such an exception.
pronouns: he/she/they
Yes. The rules do not actually create any restrictions against doing this.
In the 2014 rules, there were minimum character levels required to be able to craft items of a certain rarity and also part of the crafting process involved actually expending a spell slot of the level that you were crafting so that you had to actually be capable of casting a spell at a certain level in order to make the corresponding spell scroll. However, in the 2024 rules that seems to have changed. Now you must simply have the spell prepared and the strength of the scroll is just dependent upon the time and money that you put into crafting it.
One potential "gotcha" has to do with how to interpret the actual spell descriptions. For the most part, they all say something like:
"Using a Higher-Level Spell Slot. You can target one additional creature for each spell slot level above 1."
So, there is some question when, for example, this spell (Charm Person in this case) is cast "at Level 2" by casting it directly from a Spell Scroll (Level 2) magic item . . . perhaps you do not actually gain the benefit of the above clause within the spell description since you are not actually "using a higher-level spell slot" to cast the spell.
However, there is some precedent within the rules for avoiding such a strict interpretation. For example, consider the Magic Item called "Eyes of Charming":
"For 1 charge, you cast the level 1 version of the spell. You increase the spell’s level by one for each additional charge you expend."
In this magic item description, references are made to "the spell's level" instead of to "using a higher-level spell slot". The implication in this case is that you can use the Eyes of Charming magic item to cast a "level 2 version" of Charm Person which seems intended to enjoy the benefits that are listed in the Charm Person spell description within the "higher-level spell slot" clause.
We already know from the general rules for spellcasting that the concept of the "spell level" is distinct from "the level of the spell slot that is used". Even though the spell descriptions refer to certain effects being created by "using a higher-level spell slot", it seems that these effects are actually meant to be applied whenever the spell is cast at a "higher level" regardless of whether or not using a higher-level spell slot was the method used to achieve that. Otherwise, as written, many published magic items do not actually function as intended.
The rules explicitly restrict this and TarodNet has already posted the relevant rules. When you cast a spell from a Spell Scroll, you are casting it without a spell slot and it uses the minimum level for the spell.
The 2014 rules required you to spend a spell slot of the spell's level but never gave a benefit for using a higher spell slot than required. You may be confusing a house rule with RAW.
This is a specific item's rule overriding the general for spellcasting and does not apply to other magic items that do not have the same rule in the description. This does not set a precedent.
The spell level is distinct in that it is determined by the spell slot used or defaults the minimum required to cast the spell.
Casting Spells
In order to cast a spell at a higher than normal level, you must expend a higher than normal spell slot, unless a specific rule explicitly specifies otherwise. Eyes of Charming only allows you to cast a spell above the default level because of a specific rule allowing it. I think there is an adventure with a higher than normally allowed spell level on a spell scroll or wand, but again that is a specific rule for that one item and not a general rule. You cannot use a standard spell scroll to cast a spell at any other level than the minimum required for the spell and you cannot craft a spell scroll with a spell higher than the minimum required for the spell under 2024 and 2014 RAW.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.