My sister asked me a question about using Mage Hand underwater, and i made my brain shut down for a moment. A Mage Hand can only carry things up to 10 pounds, but what if the object is underwater? It would mean it's lighter. So is it a universal if it's X pounds above water, say, a 6lb. halberd, is it a six pound halberd underwater, or is it something else because of buoyancy?
The easiest way to rule on this is using the ideas from the DMG: Rules aren't physics. Buoyancy or fluid viscosity or whatever else doesn't affect the spell.
The easiest way to rule on this is using the ideas from the DMG: Rules aren't physics. Buoyancy or fluid viscosity or whatever else doesn't affect the spell.
I agree with the spirit of this argument, but there are practical applications. For instance, if the object floats, does it count toward the weight carried by mage hand? Also, what happens in low gravity environments? I would rule that it factors in buoyancy if it is significant.
It's also worth pointing out that Mage Hand is magic, which by definition does not need to fully follow the normal laws of physics. The entire point of magic is that it lets you do things that violate physical laws.
I agree with those saying don’t think about it. It’s magic, it just works. And D& D is not a physics simulator. Do you really want to spend your game time making rulings about the relative density and buoyancy levels of an object every time this comes up? Seems like you also need to figure in the extra resistance from the water when you try to move it. And the pressure you need to exert to hold it steady. It’s a can of worms not worth opening. Probably it won’t come up often, but still.
Also, if you’re appealing to physics, is 10 lb the weight or the mass? If it’s the mass, then it doesn’t change (except at speeds where relativity matters…).
My sister asked me a question about using Mage Hand underwater, and i made my brain shut down for a moment. A Mage Hand can only carry things up to 10 pounds, but what if the object is underwater? It would mean it's lighter. So is it a universal if it's X pounds above water, say, a 6lb. halberd, is it a six pound halberd underwater, or is it something else because of buoyancy?
Underwater, if the object is buoyant enough it might be over the 10 pound limit in the other direction, pulling up instead of down. Going to be pretty rare that it is going to be over the limit out of water but within underwater. That halberd's 6 lbs weight is under the limit either way.
A mage hand can not carry more than 10 pounds, but else wise there is no stated limitation on what a mage hand can do when manipulating objects so it's down to DM digression to rule what is/is not allowed.
In regards to this question it is basically, does Mage Hand work off of ordinary weight or apparent weight, the former is what most people are saying here, the objects apparent weight has decreased due to buoyancy but it's ordinary weight is unaltered and to stick with that ordinary weight.
I'd be more inclined to rule the Mage Hand limitation reflects mass rather than weight since it seems more intuitive to be representing the amount of force Mage Hand can exert onto objects in order to move them, without having to teach every player Newtonian Physics in order to understand the spell. Similar to how the gold value of spell components isn't actually a gold value, but a representation of the amount & quality of those components required, but for simplicity it is described in terms of gold value.
I'd be more inclined to rule the Mage Hand limitation reflects mass rather than weight since it seems more intuitive to be representing the amount of force Mage Hand can exert onto objects in order to move them, without having to teach every player Newtonian Physics in order to understand the spell. Similar to how the gold value of spell components isn't actually a gold value, but a representation of the amount & quality of those components required, but for simplicity it is described in terms of gold value.
That makes sense, but, RAW, it is weight, as that is what pounds measure.
I'd be more inclined to rule the Mage Hand limitation reflects mass rather than weight since it seems more intuitive to be representing the amount of force Mage Hand can exert onto objects in order to move them, without having to teach every player Newtonian Physics in order to understand the spell. Similar to how the gold value of spell components isn't actually a gold value, but a representation of the amount & quality of those components required, but for simplicity it is described in terms of gold value.
That makes sense, but, RAW, it is weight, as that is what pounds measure.
The rules don't make any distinction between weight and mass. Not even, as far as I remember, in spelljammer.
RAW, underwater objects don't change their weight.
Okay, so what I've gathered, it should be mass that determines weight, which doesn't change. Thanks guys! 10lbs on land is ten lbs. Underwater, unless it floats
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My sister asked me a question about using Mage Hand underwater, and i made my brain shut down for a moment. A Mage Hand can only carry things up to 10 pounds, but what if the object is underwater? It would mean it's lighter. So is it a universal if it's X pounds above water, say, a 6lb. halberd, is it a six pound halberd underwater, or is it something else because of buoyancy?
The easiest way to rule on this is using the ideas from the DMG: Rules aren't physics. Buoyancy or fluid viscosity or whatever else doesn't affect the spell.
I agree with the spirit of this argument, but there are practical applications. For instance, if the object floats, does it count toward the weight carried by mage hand? Also, what happens in low gravity environments? I would rule that it factors in buoyancy if it is significant.
It's also worth pointing out that Mage Hand is magic, which by definition does not need to fully follow the normal laws of physics. The entire point of magic is that it lets you do things that violate physical laws.
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I agree with those saying don’t think about it. It’s magic, it just works. And D& D is not a physics simulator. Do you really want to spend your game time making rulings about the relative density and buoyancy levels of an object every time this comes up? Seems like you also need to figure in the extra resistance from the water when you try to move it. And the pressure you need to exert to hold it steady. It’s a can of worms not worth opening.
Probably it won’t come up often, but still.
Also, if you’re appealing to physics, is 10 lb the weight or the mass? If it’s the mass, then it doesn’t change (except at speeds where relativity matters…).
Underwater, if the object is buoyant enough it might be over the 10 pound limit in the other direction, pulling up instead of down. Going to be pretty rare that it is going to be over the limit out of water but within underwater. That halberd's 6 lbs weight is under the limit either way.
A mage hand can not carry more than 10 pounds, but else wise there is no stated limitation on what a mage hand can do when manipulating objects so it's down to DM digression to rule what is/is not allowed.
In regards to this question it is basically, does Mage Hand work off of ordinary weight or apparent weight, the former is what most people are saying here, the objects apparent weight has decreased due to buoyancy but it's ordinary weight is unaltered and to stick with that ordinary weight.
I'd be more inclined to rule the Mage Hand limitation reflects mass rather than weight since it seems more intuitive to be representing the amount of force Mage Hand can exert onto objects in order to move them, without having to teach every player Newtonian Physics in order to understand the spell. Similar to how the gold value of spell components isn't actually a gold value, but a representation of the amount & quality of those components required, but for simplicity it is described in terms of gold value.
That makes sense, but, RAW, it is weight, as that is what pounds measure.
The rules don't make any distinction between weight and mass. Not even, as far as I remember, in spelljammer.
RAW, underwater objects don't change their weight.
Okay, so what I've gathered, it should be mass that determines weight, which doesn't change. Thanks guys! 10lbs on land is ten lbs. Underwater, unless it floats