Long time player of AD&D (since I was 5, and am now 39)
I just had a weird question, I guess. Always sort of bothered me, and I guess I wanted to ask what the community, or even what actual moderators on this site, thought:
Illusion magic, by its definition, affects the mind of those perceiving it to create effects.
So, does illusion magic technically have no REAL limit to the range of enemies it can effect?
Here is an example of what I mean:
A level 1 character casts silent image. (It doesn't really matter what image they make for this example, but let's say it's of a bonfire.)
Miles away, a guard using a telescope can still see the bonfire, yeah?
The illusion isn't CREATING A HOLOGRAM, by the description of the spell school; it is affecting the thoughts of those who perceive it to make them THINK they are seeing something.
Does it seem appropriate that a level 1 character can cast a spell that reaches the mind of a target miles away?
It's always been something that just makes me raise an eyebrow at illusion magic.
Maybe DM's territory / specific case scenario, but would you allow a creature to examine the image from a distance?
Physical interaction with the image reveals it to be an illusion, since things can pass through it. A creature that takes a Study action to examine the image can determine that it is an illusion with a successful Intelligence (Investigation) check against your spell save DC. If a creature discerns the illusion for what it is, the creature can see through the image.
A level 1 character casts silent image. (It doesn't really matter what image they make for this example, but let's say it's of a bonfire.)
Miles away, a guard using a telescope can still see the bonfire, yeah?
The illusion isn't CREATING A HOLOGRAM, by the description of the spell school; it is affecting the thoughts of those who perceive it to make them THINK they are seeing something.
Does it seem appropriate that a level 1 character can cast a spell that reaches the mind of a target miles away?
No, not at all, but in general the rules for illusions in 5e are a bit of a mess
My house rule as a DM is that illusion spells only affects observers within their listed range -- even though that's not what the range is supposed to be for. So the guard would have to be within 60 feet of the silent image to see the bonfire. The house rule doesn't really work on some higher-level spells (seeming, for instance) but it's a decent starting point
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Maybe DM's territory / specific case scenario, but would you allow a creature to examine the image from a distance?
Physical interaction with the image reveals it to be an illusion, since things can pass through it. A creature that takes a Study action to examine the image can determine that it is an illusion with a successful Intelligence (Investigation) check against your spell save DC. If a creature discerns the illusion for what it is, the creature can see through the image.
Yes, since reference to examine the image is described after physical interaction, i assume it can be attempted when seen from a distance. I take that you can't examine the image you don't first see.
For example, Investigation is used to deduce how something works among other things. As the Dungeon Master Guide explains, it's using reason and deduction to arrive at a conclusion.
When to Call for a Check
An important time to call for a Wisdom (Perception) check is when another creature is using the Stealth skill to hide. Noticing a hidden creature is never trivially easy or automatically impossible, so characters can always try Wisdom (Perception) checks to do so.
Using Passive Perception.Sometimes, asking players to make Wisdom (Perception) checks for their characters tips them off that there's something they should be searching for, giving them a clue you'd rather they didn't have. In those circumstances, use characters' Passive Perception scores instead.
Using the Investigation Skill.The Investigation skill applies to situations where a character is using reason and deduction to arrive at a conclusion about something under examination. Investigation applies when characters are trying to figure out how a thing works—how to open a trick door, how to get into a secret compartment, and so on.
Don't use the Investigation skill to determine if a character notices something—that's the purview of Perception. For example, a successful Wisdom (Perception) check allows a character to find a secret door or something that betrays its presence, such as thin seams marking the edges of the door. If the secret door is locked, a successful Intelligence (Investigation) check would allow a character to figure out the trick to opening it—by turning a nearby statue so it faces the door, for example.
I know it would just add yet MORE rules to an already-rules-heavy game, but maybe illusion spells should have an "area of affect" in ADDITION to the "area of effect", lol.
Long time player of AD&D (since I was 5, and am now 39)
I just had a weird question, I guess. Always sort of bothered me, and I guess I wanted to ask what the community, or even what actual moderators on this site, thought:
Illusion magic, by its definition, affects the mind of those perceiving it to create effects.
So, does illusion magic technically have no REAL limit to the range of enemies it can effect?
Here is an example of what I mean:
A level 1 character casts silent image. (It doesn't really matter what image they make for this example, but let's say it's of a bonfire.)
Miles away, a guard using a telescope can still see the bonfire, yeah?
The illusion isn't CREATING A HOLOGRAM, by the description of the spell school; it is affecting the thoughts of those who perceive it to make them THINK they are seeing something.
Does it seem appropriate that a level 1 character can cast a spell that reaches the mind of a target miles away?
It's always been something that just makes me raise an eyebrow at illusion magic.
Many Illusions ARE holograms per se. Phantasmal Force works as you say, by affecting the mind of the viewer.
Long time player of AD&D (since I was 5, and am now 39)
I just had a weird question, I guess. Always sort of bothered me, and I guess I wanted to ask what the community, or even what actual moderators on this site, thought:
Illusion magic, by its definition, affects the mind of those perceiving it to create effects.
So, does illusion magic technically have no REAL limit to the range of enemies it can effect?
Here is an example of what I mean:
A level 1 character casts silent image. (It doesn't really matter what image they make for this example, but let's say it's of a bonfire.)
Miles away, a guard using a telescope can still see the bonfire, yeah?
The illusion isn't CREATING A HOLOGRAM, by the description of the spell school; it is affecting the thoughts of those who perceive it to make them THINK they are seeing something.
Does it seem appropriate that a level 1 character can cast a spell that reaches the mind of a target miles away?
It's always been something that just makes me raise an eyebrow at illusion magic.
A Silent Image create an image that can be seen within limit of vision.
There are other Illusion spells that may produce different effects, typically deceives the mind or sense similar to AD&D with Illusion/Phantasm.
Maybe DM's territory / specific case scenario, but would you allow a creature to examine the image from a distance?
No, not at all, but in general the rules for illusions in 5e are a bit of a mess
My house rule as a DM is that illusion spells only affects observers within their listed range -- even though that's not what the range is supposed to be for. So the guard would have to be within 60 feet of the silent image to see the bonfire. The house rule doesn't really work on some higher-level spells (seeming, for instance) but it's a decent starting point
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Yes, since reference to examine the image is described after physical interaction, i assume it can be attempted when seen from a distance. I take that you can't examine the image you don't first see.
For example, Investigation is used to deduce how something works among other things. As the Dungeon Master Guide explains, it's using reason and deduction to arrive at a conclusion.
DEFINITELY like those house rules.
I know it would just add yet MORE rules to an already-rules-heavy game, but maybe illusion spells should have an "area of affect" in ADDITION to the "area of effect", lol.
Many Illusions ARE holograms per se. Phantasmal Force works as you say, by affecting the mind of the viewer.
Some illusions create actual images (or other sensations, as seen by Major Image giving off other sensory things, such as heat).
Some only affect the mind of the target.
Each tells you what they create. I refuse to change anything about either, because that's just taking away from what the players have.