In relation to another thread I came to the realisation that a character suffering from the Blinded condition can technically have perfect Perception rolls to perceive enemies sneaking up on the character, as long as the Perception roll doesn't rely solely on sight. But in many cases characters do not rely solely on sight. The sense of hearing is something we often make use of, especially when surrounded by complete darkness, but also in daytime. Of course there are specific circumstances where creatures are completely silent, but that is rarely the case. So my question is this: According to RAW, does a blind character have as good perception as a non-blind character when perceiving hidden enemies?
Depends on the situation and the DM, but yes, if the hiding-perception contest relies on hearing only, a blind character is as good as a non-blind character.
By RAW, creatures that are blinded have the following issues:
Blinded
A blinded creature can't see and automatically fails any ability check that requires sight.
Attack rolls against the creature have advantage, and the creature's attack rolls have disadvantage.
Most creatures that are normally sightless as part of their physical makeup tend to compensate with something like blind-sight or tremor-sense out to about 30ft to negate this sort of disadvantage.
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"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
Depends on the situation and the DM, but yes, if the hiding-perception contest relies on hearing only, a blind character is as good as a non-blind character.
Yes I don't think there's any doubt about that, but what if the hiding-perception contest does not only rely on hearing? What if your party is walking in a dense forest and your DM says "make a perception check" (because the bandits are hiding near the road). Should the blind player make the exact same roll with no disadvantage?
Most creatures that are normally sightless as part of their physical makeup tend to compensate with something like blind-sight or tremor-sense out to about 30ft to negate this sort of disadvantage.
Yes but it is what happens beyond the range of their special senses that is interesting. How far does your hearing extend and how powerful is it?
As filcat said, outside of that range, if the check is based on hearing, then they would make the check no different than anyone else. If the check is based on sight, then they are effectively Blinded outside of that range and would auto-fail the check.
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"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
Is a Perception check always based on only one sense? Can it not be based on both? I've always understood the term to be a general term for all sensory inputs.
Okay. How would you rule it? if someone were playing a blind character at your table, would you say that he/she wouldn't be able to make general perception rolls, can make perception rolls with disadvantage, or can make perception rolls without any disadvantage? Or would you put a range on the character's hearing?
Generally, speaking I would not impose disadvantage on a perception roll to a blind character. The same thing goes for a character trying to locate an invisible (and hidden) creature.
But it depends on the circumstances. In an area where there is significant noise, the hearing might be difficult, thus requiring disadvantage.
I would treat it normally, asking the group or individual players for perception rolls. If the blind character is the only one that succeeds, and the DM really can't find a way to describe that perception being successful through hearing or scent or some other sense... then just say "the back of you neck crawls with some hidden danger" to represent a vague sort of "sixth sense," but don't give any more helpful details. But I think 99% of the time, a reasonably thoughtful DM will find a way for a blind character with high perception to have perceived something (at sea looking for land on the horizon? you smell dirt. Ambush waiting in the bushes? You hear a stick break. Beasty creeping up behind you? You feel breath tickle your back).
Yeah I would do the same as you guys I guess. I always thought that Blindsight was a way to overcome blindness specifically, and that a creature's hearing wouldn't be affected by this ability. But looking at RAW for naturally blind creatures it is stated that:
Blindsight
...If a monster is naturally blind, it has a parenthetical note to this effect, indicating that the radius of its blindsight defines the maximum range of its perception.
This must mean, by RAW, that a creature that is naturally blind cannot perceive anything outside of it's Blindsight radius (if written in that particular way). Not even by using its sense of hearing.
It would not be able to Perceive anything outside that radius with any degree of accuracy. I know I can't follow a conversation happening quietly thirty feet away from me. Beyond their Blindsight radius, I would impose Disadvantage on the Perception roll unless the situation would call for other action.
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"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
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In relation to another thread I came to the realisation that a character suffering from the Blinded condition can technically have perfect Perception rolls to perceive enemies sneaking up on the character, as long as the Perception roll doesn't rely solely on sight. But in many cases characters do not rely solely on sight. The sense of hearing is something we often make use of, especially when surrounded by complete darkness, but also in daytime. Of course there are specific circumstances where creatures are completely silent, but that is rarely the case. So my question is this: According to RAW, does a blind character have as good perception as a non-blind character when perceiving hidden enemies?
Depends on the situation and the DM, but yes, if the hiding-perception contest relies on hearing only, a blind character is as good as a non-blind character.
By RAW, creatures that are blinded have the following issues:
Most creatures that are normally sightless as part of their physical makeup tend to compensate with something like blind-sight or tremor-sense out to about 30ft to negate this sort of disadvantage.
Yes I don't think there's any doubt about that, but what if the hiding-perception contest does not only rely on hearing? What if your party is walking in a dense forest and your DM says "make a perception check" (because the bandits are hiding near the road). Should the blind player make the exact same roll with no disadvantage?
Yes but it is what happens beyond the range of their special senses that is interesting. How far does your hearing extend and how powerful is it?
As filcat said, outside of that range, if the check is based on hearing, then they would make the check no different than anyone else. If the check is based on sight, then they are effectively Blinded outside of that range and would auto-fail the check.
Is a Perception check always based on only one sense? Can it not be based on both? I've always understood the term to be a general term for all sensory inputs.
It can be, but that's more of a gray area for the DM to determine. There aren't hard rules for it.
It is up to the DM. There is no written rule about the Perception skill on the different senses.
Okay. How would you rule it? if someone were playing a blind character at your table, would you say that he/she wouldn't be able to make general perception rolls, can make perception rolls with disadvantage, or can make perception rolls without any disadvantage? Or would you put a range on the character's hearing?
Generally, speaking I would not impose disadvantage on a perception roll to a blind character. The same thing goes for a character trying to locate an invisible (and hidden) creature.
But it depends on the circumstances. In an area where there is significant noise, the hearing might be difficult, thus requiring disadvantage.
I would treat it normally, asking the group or individual players for perception rolls. If the blind character is the only one that succeeds, and the DM really can't find a way to describe that perception being successful through hearing or scent or some other sense... then just say "the back of you neck crawls with some hidden danger" to represent a vague sort of "sixth sense," but don't give any more helpful details. But I think 99% of the time, a reasonably thoughtful DM will find a way for a blind character with high perception to have perceived something (at sea looking for land on the horizon? you smell dirt. Ambush waiting in the bushes? You hear a stick break. Beasty creeping up behind you? You feel breath tickle your back).
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Yeah I would do the same as you guys I guess. I always thought that Blindsight was a way to overcome blindness specifically, and that a creature's hearing wouldn't be affected by this ability. But looking at RAW for naturally blind creatures it is stated that:
This must mean, by RAW, that a creature that is naturally blind cannot perceive anything outside of it's Blindsight radius (if written in that particular way). Not even by using its sense of hearing.
It would not be able to Perceive anything outside that radius with any degree of accuracy. I know I can't follow a conversation happening quietly thirty feet away from me. Beyond their Blindsight radius, I would impose Disadvantage on the Perception roll unless the situation would call for other action.