I am writing my first campaign to DM for, and I want to have the following scene play out:
A tavernkeep from an impoverished town does not like seeing the display of wealth from the Player Characters, so he greatly raises the prices of all items and services that he sells.
I want the players to roll to see if they can tell that they are being ripped off, but I do not know what kind of skill is used in determining that event. Would it be a Perception, Persuasion, Insight, or Investigation check?
That sounds like an Insight check to me, but Investigation could work as well. You can offer players their choice of skills, but probably limit it to just two.
I agree with Stabby on it being an insight check. Maybe even a passive insight as they realize something like, there’s no way people around here can afford 10gp for a single meal.
But my question is how do you know the PCs will be displaying their wealth? Or is this more of a just in case they do scenario?
It is an "in case they do" scenario. I feel like I may have exaggerated the "display of wealth" sentence. Basically, the people in the town are so poor, that they can't even stand seeing someone who is even the slightest bit wealthier than them.
Thank you for helping me. I will make this an insight check!
I mean, is there a purpose to this story beat, or just trying to create some conflict for its own sake? If the latter, I'd suggest being careful with the tone, or it might feel like you're trying to go after the players when an NPC starts getting this aggressive on the characters like this.
Also, keep in mind that the player characters should probably have some sense of what's a normal price even without rolling for something this basic. The same way it doesn't take any great feat of logic to realize that a McDouble shouldn't be going for $15.
I mean, is there a purpose to this story beat, or just trying to create some conflict for its own sake? If the latter, I'd suggest being careful with the tone, or it might feel like you're trying to go after the players when an NPC starts getting this aggressive on the characters like this.
Also, keep in mind that the player characters should probably have some sense of what's a normal price even without rolling for something this basic. The same way it doesn't take any great feat of logic to realize that a McDouble shouldn't be going for $15.
An excellent point. It's always a good idea for DMs to understand separation of knowledge. Usually the concern is about using meta knowledge the players have to influence the actions a PC without an in-world justification. But it goes the other way as well: the PC would have knowledge about the world which the player does not. Even if the PC was literally 'born' yesterday at the hands of a player, the PC has been living in that world for years, and would know things about it.
A very good question a player can ask is 'would my PC know anything about [Y]?' Sometimes that has a clear yes or no answer and the DM can just tell the PC. When that answer is not clear, that is the appropriate time to roll the dice and see.
I would have the PC make an Intelligence (Investigation) check to deduce item/services posted are overpriced, or a Wisdom (Insight) check to dicern the tavernkeeper is overpricing them.
I want the players to roll to see if they can tell that they are being ripped off, but I do not know what kind of skill is used in determining that event. Would it be a Perception, Persuasion, Insight, or Investigation check?
If one of the PCs has a high passive Perception, you can always just forego the roll and have them overhear a couple locals making fun of the party for being swindled
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I want the players to roll to see if they can tell that they are being ripped off, but I do not know what kind of skill is used in determining that event. Would it be a Perception, Persuasion, Insight, or Investigation check?
It's insight to know that the innkeeper dislikes their display of wealth and may be overcharging. It's investigation to know what the normal price is. Other skills and proficiencies could come up.
It is very common to charge locals one rate and out-of-towners a second rate. It happens all the time in the real world. I haven't lived in Nevada in 5 years, but I still have my old Nevada drivers license because I can use it for local rates when I visit Las Vegas.
What is the difference between the local rate and the foreigner rate? Is it something the pc's are willing to pay? What are the goals for having the players protest the fact they are getting charged a higher rate?
If you're only doing this to add flavor to the campaign, don't do it. If there is a specific plot point or side quest associated with this, then it makes sense.
I am writing my first campaign to DM for, and I want to have the following scene play out:
A tavernkeep from an impoverished town does not like seeing the display of wealth from the Player Characters, so he greatly raises the prices of all items and services that he sells.
I want the players to roll to see if they can tell that they are being ripped off, but I do not know what kind of skill is used in determining that event. Would it be a Perception, Persuasion, Insight, or Investigation check?
As other people have mentioned the PCs should know the general price of food in a given area. This really shouldn't have a roll unless the party is in a wealthy major town where the prices wouldn't be so obvious.
I don't think you should have the pcs roll. Especially if the pcs are starting in the town. If they haven't then the price of services in other towns should give a clue this place is over charging.
A word of caution. By having the shop overcharging you are creating friction between the owner and the PCs. And at some point the pcs are going to react. Possibly in thinking the owner is taking money from the townsfolk.
I.e. the owner becomes a villian/quest to conquer.
It is an "in case they do" scenario. I feel like I may have exaggerated the "display of wealth" sentence. Basically, the people in the town are so poor, that they can't even stand seeing someone who is even the slightest bit wealthier than them.
Thank you for helping me. I will make this an insight check!
I'm sorry, what? The poorer you are doesn't make you angrier and angrier at people with money. Maybe a little resentful, but think about real life, people in poverty might wish they had money and want it from the players potentially but they can stand seeing people with money and don't go into a fit of rage, and might be asking for it. Is this town particularly hostile people?
If they are intentionally ripping you off insight, if its just unknown value and they over valued it id say history, nature, religions, arcana depending on the item in question.
...and the paladin and the cleric nod, smile, thank the tavernkeep for his excellent hospitality, and tip him a platinum piece each. The town is that poor? They spread the wealth to the best of their ability.
...and the paladin and the cleric nod, smile, thank the tavernkeep for his excellent hospitality, and tip him a platinum piece each. The town is that poor? They spread the wealth to the best of their ability.
What the heck are you trying to say?
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Bang! Bang! Maxwell's silver hammer came down upon her head Clang! Clang! Maxwell's silver hammer made sure that she was dead
I am writing my first campaign to DM for, and I want to have the following scene play out:
A tavernkeep from an impoverished town does not like seeing the display of wealth from the Player Characters, so he greatly raises the prices of all items and services that he sells.
I want the players to roll to see if they can tell that they are being ripped off, but I do not know what kind of skill is used in determining that event.
Would it be a Perception, Persuasion, Insight, or Investigation check?
That sounds like an Insight check to me, but Investigation could work as well. You can offer players their choice of skills, but probably limit it to just two.
I agree with Stabby on it being an insight check. Maybe even a passive insight as they realize something like, there’s no way people around here can afford 10gp for a single meal.
But my question is how do you know the PCs will be displaying their wealth? Or is this more of a just in case they do scenario?
It is an "in case they do" scenario. I feel like I may have exaggerated the "display of wealth" sentence. Basically, the people in the town are so poor, that they can't even stand seeing someone who is even the slightest bit wealthier than them.
Thank you for helping me. I will make this an insight check!
I mean, is there a purpose to this story beat, or just trying to create some conflict for its own sake? If the latter, I'd suggest being careful with the tone, or it might feel like you're trying to go after the players when an NPC starts getting this aggressive on the characters like this.
Also, keep in mind that the player characters should probably have some sense of what's a normal price even without rolling for something this basic. The same way it doesn't take any great feat of logic to realize that a McDouble shouldn't be going for $15.
An excellent point. It's always a good idea for DMs to understand separation of knowledge. Usually the concern is about using meta knowledge the players have to influence the actions a PC without an in-world justification. But it goes the other way as well: the PC would have knowledge about the world which the player does not. Even if the PC was literally 'born' yesterday at the hands of a player, the PC has been living in that world for years, and would know things about it.
A very good question a player can ask is 'would my PC know anything about [Y]?' Sometimes that has a clear yes or no answer and the DM can just tell the PC. When that answer is not clear, that is the appropriate time to roll the dice and see.
I would have the PC make an Intelligence (Investigation) check to deduce item/services posted are overpriced, or a Wisdom (Insight) check to dicern the tavernkeeper is overpricing them.
If one of the PCs has a high passive Perception, you can always just forego the roll and have them overhear a couple locals making fun of the party for being swindled
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
It's insight to know that the innkeeper dislikes their display of wealth and may be overcharging. It's investigation to know what the normal price is. Other skills and proficiencies could come up.
It is very common to charge locals one rate and out-of-towners a second rate. It happens all the time in the real world. I haven't lived in Nevada in 5 years, but I still have my old Nevada drivers license because I can use it for local rates when I visit Las Vegas.
What is the difference between the local rate and the foreigner rate? Is it something the pc's are willing to pay? What are the goals for having the players protest the fact they are getting charged a higher rate?
If you're only doing this to add flavor to the campaign, don't do it. If there is a specific plot point or side quest associated with this, then it makes sense.
As other people have mentioned the PCs should know the general price of food in a given area. This really shouldn't have a roll unless the party is in a wealthy major town where the prices wouldn't be so obvious.
I don't think you should have the pcs roll. Especially if the pcs are starting in the town. If they haven't then the price of services in other towns should give a clue this place is over charging.
A word of caution. By having the shop overcharging you are creating friction between the owner and the PCs. And at some point the pcs are going to react. Possibly in thinking the owner is taking money from the townsfolk.
I.e. the owner becomes a villian/quest to conquer.
The shop is getting burned down.
I'm sorry, what?
The poorer you are doesn't make you angrier and angrier at people with money. Maybe a little resentful, but think about real life, people in poverty might wish they had money and want it from the players potentially but they can stand seeing people with money and don't go into a fit of rage, and might be asking for it. Is this town particularly hostile people?
Bang! Bang! Maxwell's silver hammer came down upon her head
Clang! Clang! Maxwell's silver hammer made sure that she was dead
If they are intentionally ripping you off insight, if its just unknown value and they over valued it id say history, nature, religions, arcana depending on the item in question.
...and the paladin and the cleric nod, smile, thank the tavernkeep for his excellent hospitality, and tip him a platinum piece each. The town is that poor? They spread the wealth to the best of their ability.
What the heck are you trying to say?
Bang! Bang! Maxwell's silver hammer came down upon her head
Clang! Clang! Maxwell's silver hammer made sure that she was dead
I think he is saying lawful good people let themselves get cheated in order to help the downtrodden.