What is the official alignment of typical wereraven monsters/NPCs? The alignment is not listed in the monster stat blocks under Curse of Strahd or Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft.
The version of the wereraven printed in Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft is an errata'd version of the one originally printed in Curse of Strahd. The stat block has had it's alignment removed (ie there is no prescribed alignment for all wereravens) as well as it's immunity to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage from non-silvered weapons replaced with a regeneration trait.
The version of the wereraven printed in Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft is an errata'd version of the one originally printed in Curse of Strahd. The stat block has had it's alignment removed (ie there is no prescribed alignment for all wereravens) as well as it's immunity to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage from non-silvered weapons replaced with a regeneration trait.
But that's part of the definition of lycanthropy - the Monster Manual specifically calls out that coerced alignment is how lycanthropy is a curse. Does Van Richten really just turn it into a pure blessing?
Yes, it's become a straight up blessing. I believe the constant clamor for were-critter player characters has brought this about, and we can expect all weres to be revised eventually.
I'll probably either ban were-characters, or stop using the monsters entirely. I don't want my setting to have nothing but weres.
I'll probably either ban were-characters, or stop using the monsters entirely. I don't want my setting to have nothing but weres.
You could just make it a curse in other ways?
Forced alignment never really seemed to me like much of a drawback, as you can justify a lot of actions if you're creative, especially since most people don't really understand the different alignments properly anyway (and they can still be pretty confusing to those who do).
Give them a terrible hunger that must be satiated and/or throw a few rolls on a madness table at them. Gotta pay for them bonuses. 😈
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Forced Alignment change was never the problem. The problem was that once you stopped resisting the curse, you became an NPC. That's the disadvantage. When the DM says "Go ahead and make a new character".
To my mind, you were not resisting the curse unless you were actively trying to get rid of it. Since Remove Curse is easy to get, no player character would remain a were for long.
I consider the forced shape changes 3 nights every month a curse, especially since the forced shape change comes with a bloodlust and hunger for freshly killed meat. That’s a huge disadvantage to me!
I consider the forced shape changes 3 nights every month a curse, especially since the forced shape change comes with a bloodlust and hunger for freshly killed meat. That’s a huge disadvantage to me!
Is any of that real, though? I don't remember reading any of that in the MM block for PC lycanthropy, and while I haven't read the Van Richten info on wereravens, I would be shocked if a wereraven - an omnivore known for eating carrion - craved "freshly killed meat".
The wereravens in both Curse of Strahd and Van Richten's Guide don't suffer any drawbacks from their curse as far as I can tell. However they're generally strongly good-aligned and try to actively oppose evil wherever they go, which makes them a target. Since their curse can be abused and can also be a liability, they're very selective about passing on the curse. It's tantamount to accepting you to their secret society.
Forced Alignment change was never the problem. The problem was that once you stopped resisting the curse, you became an NPC. That's the disadvantage. When the DM says "Go ahead and make a new character".
That's only if a change in alignment occurs due to lycanthropy. Wereravens have no alignment, so no change in alignment can occur, so the character can't be placed under DM control.
"A non-lycanthrope humanoid hit by an attack that carries the curse of lycanthropy must succeed on a Constitution saving throw (DC 8 + the lycanthrope's proficiency bonus + the lycanthrope's Constitution modifier) or be cursed. If the character embraces the curse, his or her alignment becomes the one defined for the lycanthrope. The DM is free to decide that a change in alignment places the character under DM control until the curse of lycanthropy is removed." MM p. 207
hat's only if a change in alignment occurs due to lycanthropy. Wereravens have no alignment, so no change in alignment can occur, so the character can't be placed under DM control.
"A non-lycanthrope humanoid hit by an attack that carries the curse of lycanthropy must succeed on a Constitution saving throw (DC 8 + the lycanthrope's proficiency bonus + the lycanthrope's Constitution modifier) or be cursed. If the character embraces the curse, his or her alignment becomes the one defined for the lycanthrope. The DM is free to decide that a change in alignment places the character under DM control until the curse of lycanthropy is removed." MM p. 207
Okay, I think maybe you missed that that is the point. People are saying this is a change from the old write up.
Yes, it's become a straight up blessing. I believe the constant clamor for were-critter player characters has brought this about, and we can expect all weres to be revised eventually.
I'll probably either ban were-characters, or stop using the monsters entirely. I don't want my setting to have nothing but weres.
I mean there was what some people call an exploit of "yes, I want to play that alignment"
If you are using the 2024 rules, alignment is irrelevant, every lycanthrope curse automatically makes you a were creature under the control of the DM. This would extend to using wereravens (my opinion).
If you are using the 2014 rules, then the lack of alignment requires some DM interpretation.
If you resist the curse, than 3 days a month you lose control of your character and go on a rampage. "By resisting the curse, a lycanthrope retains its normal alignment and personality while in humanoid form. It lives its life as it always has, burying deep the bestial urges raging inside it. However, when the full moon rises, the curse becomes too strong to resist, transforming the individual into its beast form — or into a horrible hybrid form that combines animal and humanoid traits. When the moon wanes, the beast within can be controlled once again. Especially if the cursed creature is unaware of its condition, it might not remember the events of its transformation, though those memories often haunt a lycanthrope as bloody dreams."
This applies regardless of the were creature's alignment. The DM takes control of your character, and you are the typical out of control, stereotypical lycanthrope who does bad things.
If you accept the curse, then you become an NPC if your alignment changes. The lack of an alignment in the bestiaries gives the DM two choices -- 1) you gain control with no negative effects since your alignment does not change, or 2) the DM gives wereravens an alignment, so that it works like every other lycanthrope since the wereraven writeup points you to the lycanthrope rules.
What do we know about the wereravens that would suggest an alignment?
All the wereravens in Curse of Strahd are Lawful Good members of the Keepers of the Feather (an organization dedicated to opposing evil). So, in my campaign, if I was using the 2014 rules, I would give them a Lawful Good alignment so they worked just like all the other lycanthropes. Their alignment is given when they are introduced in Chapter 5 - area N2, and Chapter 12 in the beginning section about approaching the winery.
Your DM could rule otherwise.
I don't think the intent was to make wereravens unique from how every other lycanthrope is treated. Not including alignments in Curse of Strahd and van Richten's bestiaries was a mistake that I see was not carried though in the 2024 monster manual.
What is the official alignment of typical wereraven monsters/NPCs? The alignment is not listed in the monster stat blocks under Curse of Strahd or Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft.
The version of the wereraven printed in Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft is an errata'd version of the one originally printed in Curse of Strahd. The stat block has had it's alignment removed (ie there is no prescribed alignment for all wereravens) as well as it's immunity to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage from non-silvered weapons replaced with a regeneration trait.
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What did it used to be? I feel like it was one of the neutrals.
lawful good
But that's part of the definition of lycanthropy - the Monster Manual specifically calls out that coerced alignment is how lycanthropy is a curse. Does Van Richten really just turn it into a pure blessing?
Yes, it's become a straight up blessing. I believe the constant clamor for were-critter player characters has brought this about, and we can expect all weres to be revised eventually.
I'll probably either ban were-characters, or stop using the monsters entirely. I don't want my setting to have nothing but weres.
<Insert clever signature here>
You could just make it a curse in other ways?
Forced alignment never really seemed to me like much of a drawback, as you can justify a lot of actions if you're creative, especially since most people don't really understand the different alignments properly anyway (and they can still be pretty confusing to those who do).
Give them a terrible hunger that must be satiated and/or throw a few rolls on a madness table at them. Gotta pay for them bonuses. 😈
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Forced Alignment change was never the problem. The problem was that once you stopped resisting the curse, you became an NPC. That's the disadvantage. When the DM says "Go ahead and make a new character".
To my mind, you were not resisting the curse unless you were actively trying to get rid of it. Since Remove Curse is easy to get, no player character would remain a were for long.
<Insert clever signature here>
I consider the forced shape changes 3 nights every month a curse, especially since the forced shape change comes with a bloodlust and hunger for freshly killed meat. That’s a huge disadvantage to me!
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Is any of that real, though? I don't remember reading any of that in the MM block for PC lycanthropy, and while I haven't read the Van Richten info on wereravens, I would be shocked if a wereraven - an omnivore known for eating carrion - craved "freshly killed meat".
The wereravens in both Curse of Strahd and Van Richten's Guide don't suffer any drawbacks from their curse as far as I can tell. However they're generally strongly good-aligned and try to actively oppose evil wherever they go, which makes them a target. Since their curse can be abused and can also be a liability, they're very selective about passing on the curse. It's tantamount to accepting you to their secret society.
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That's only if a change in alignment occurs due to lycanthropy. Wereravens have no alignment, so no change in alignment can occur, so the character can't be placed under DM control.
"A non-lycanthrope humanoid hit by an attack that carries the curse of lycanthropy must succeed on a Constitution saving throw (DC 8 + the lycanthrope's proficiency bonus + the lycanthrope's Constitution modifier) or be cursed. If the character embraces the curse, his or her alignment becomes the one defined for the lycanthrope. The DM is free to decide that a change in alignment places the character under DM control until the curse of lycanthropy is removed." MM p. 207
Okay, I think maybe you missed that that is the point. People are saying this is a change from the old write up.
My Brews:
Race: Tropical Dwaves Spells: Summon Spirits Rites of Mummification
Monster: Osprey Feat: Skill Mastery–Animal Handler (Provides DCs for training animals applicable to those with and without this feat)
I mean there was what some people call an exploit of "yes, I want to play that alignment"
My Brews:
Race: Tropical Dwaves Spells: Summon Spirits Rites of Mummification
Monster: Osprey Feat: Skill Mastery–Animal Handler (Provides DCs for training animals applicable to those with and without this feat)
If you are using the 2024 rules, alignment is irrelevant, every lycanthrope curse automatically makes you a were creature under the control of the DM. This would extend to using wereravens (my opinion).
If you are using the 2014 rules, then the lack of alignment requires some DM interpretation.
If you resist the curse, than 3 days a month you lose control of your character and go on a rampage. "By resisting the curse, a lycanthrope retains its normal alignment and personality while in humanoid form. It lives its life as it always has, burying deep the bestial urges raging inside it. However, when the full moon rises, the curse becomes too strong to resist, transforming the individual into its beast form — or into a horrible hybrid form that combines animal and humanoid traits. When the moon wanes, the beast within can be controlled once again. Especially if the cursed creature is unaware of its condition, it might not remember the events of its transformation, though those memories often haunt a lycanthrope as bloody dreams."
This applies regardless of the were creature's alignment. The DM takes control of your character, and you are the typical out of control, stereotypical lycanthrope who does bad things.
If you accept the curse, then you become an NPC if your alignment changes. The lack of an alignment in the bestiaries gives the DM two choices -- 1) you gain control with no negative effects since your alignment does not change, or 2) the DM gives wereravens an alignment, so that it works like every other lycanthrope since the wereraven writeup points you to the lycanthrope rules.
What do we know about the wereravens that would suggest an alignment?
All the wereravens in Curse of Strahd are Lawful Good members of the Keepers of the Feather (an organization dedicated to opposing evil). So, in my campaign, if I was using the 2014 rules, I would give them a Lawful Good alignment so they worked just like all the other lycanthropes. Their alignment is given when they are introduced in Chapter 5 - area N2, and Chapter 12 in the beginning section about approaching the winery.
Your DM could rule otherwise.
I don't think the intent was to make wereravens unique from how every other lycanthrope is treated. Not including alignments in Curse of Strahd and van Richten's bestiaries was a mistake that I see was not carried though in the 2024 monster manual.