At level 1, Barbarians, Fighters, Paladins, Rangers, and Rogues get access to the mastery properties for certain types of weapons, as listed below:
Barbarian: Simple and Martial Melee weapons
Fighter: Simple and Martial weapons
Paladin: Based on weapon proficiencies (Simple and Martial weapons)
Ranger: Based on weapon proficiencies (Simple and Martial weapons)
Rogue: Based on weapon proficiencies (Simple weapons and Martial weapons with the Finesse or Light property)
But in practice, what is the limitation of the Ranger/Paladin compared to the Fighter, since those classes have the same Weapon Proficiencies? Maybe useful for future books with other kinds of weapons? Or am I missing something?
(Fighter) Level 1: Weapon Mastery
Your training with weapons allows you to use the mastery properties of three kinds of Simple or Martial weapons of your choice. Whenever you finish a Long Rest, you can practice weapon drills and change one of those weapon choices.
When you reach certain Fighter levels, you gain the ability to use the mastery properties of more kinds of weapons, as shown in the Weapon Mastery column of the Fighter Features table.
(Ranger) Level 1: Weapon Mastery
Your training with weapons allows you to use the mastery properties of two kinds of weapons of your choice with which you have proficiency, such as Longbows and Shortswords.
Whenever you finish a Long Rest, you can change the kinds of weapons you chose. For example, you could switch to using the mastery properties of Scimitars and Longswords.
It's an odd discrepancy, but I suspect it does have to do with the possibility of there someday being additional weapon categories beyond "simple" and "martial".
There is already one example of this: improvised weapons, which are neither simple nor martial, but which characters can be proficient with. It's irrelevant in this case because improvised weapons don't have any weapon mastery properties, but one could imagine there being someday being a new category of weapons with mastery properties that some as-yet-unreleased Paladin subclass gives them proficiency with.
It's also possible that at some point during the development process there were tighter limitations on the weapon proficiencies granted by the Paladin and Ranger classes — limitations which were removed later but which left some vestiges like this behind in other rules.
My guess would be it had to do with how firearms were classified, since in 2014 they were a separate category from simple/martial, but in 2024 some have been made into baseline martial weapons. It might also related to certain magic weapons that are only attunable by a paladin / ranger which might have at one point in development been classified as something other than just simple/martial.
That's... weird. The class features are worded differently as well:
Fighter
Your training with weapons allows you to use the mastery properties of three kinds of Simple or Martial weapons of your choice. Whenever you finish a Long Rest, you can practice weapon drills and change one of those weapon choices.
Paladin / Ranger
Your training with weapons allows you to use the mastery properties of two kinds of weapons of your choice with which you have proficiency, such as Longswords and Javelins (paladin examples) / Longbows and Shortswords (ranger examples).
Whenever you finish a Long Rest, you can change the kinds of weapons you chose.
So fighters actually have less flexibility in changing their masteries, which also makes little sense
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
This seems like it's meant as a tradeoff for the fact that Fighters eventually get more of them, while the other classes only ever get those two, but I agree it's weird.
There also might have been a time in development where Paladin & Ranger didn't get full martial proficiency, e.g. Paladins might at some point not have had proficiency in ranged martial weapons (b/c they are supposed to be a melee class), or where Rangers didn't get proficiency in heavy melee weapons (b/c they are supposed to be a DEX-based class).
more of a question, the various properties after the fighter hits an enemy, like vex- do we also assume that a sentient enemy has trained with their particular weapon and would likewise gain the weapon mastery properties? Not a skeleton but a professional ruffian/bandit/mercenary? Crawford could answer but he don't work there no more...
more of a question, the various properties after the fighter hits an enemy, like vex- do we also assume that a sentient enemy has trained with their particular weapon and would likewise gain the weapon mastery properties? Not a skeleton but a professional ruffian/bandit/mercenary? Crawford could answer but he don't work there no more...
Weapon Mastery is a class feature, so it wouldn't automatically be available to creatures that don't have a class. It's certainly something you could add to a homebrew monster but it wouldn't apply to official monsters unless it's explicitly stated in their stat block. A lot of monsters have features to their attacks that are similar to these effects anyway.
more of a question, the various properties after the fighter hits an enemy, like vex- do we also assume that a sentient enemy has trained with their particular weapon and would likewise gain the weapon mastery properties? Not a skeleton but a professional ruffian/bandit/mercenary? Crawford could answer but he don't work there no more...
Weapon Mastery is a class feature, so it wouldn't automatically be available to creatures that don't have a class. It's certainly something you could add to a homebrew monster but it wouldn't apply to official monsters unless it's explicitly stated in their stat block. A lot of monsters have features to their attacks that are similar to these effects anyway.
Agreed. I think instead of bothering the DM with tracking mastery properties, they roll it into the attacks. Like the CR 1 pirate gets two dagger attacks. It doesn’t say that’s because of the nick property of daggers, but it is effectively giving them the nick property of daggers.
As for the OP, I agree it is strange. I’d bet it was just left over language from the design process, maybe back when they were trying to group the classes, and it never got removed. Or to leave open some subclass or another getting a different set of proficiencies, like a peaceful ranger who only gets simple weapons. As much as I’d like it to be something like future-proofing for them to bring in some kind of exotic weapon proficiency as there used to be, I doubt that’s it. Double bladed scimitar was hanging out there for years and they never did much with it, or gave it any other exotic friends.
Double bladed scimitar was hanging out there for years and they never did much with it, or gave it any other exotic friends.
Well, they did bring back the kendar's lacrosse stick thingie
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
The article Your Guide to Weapon Mastery in the 2024 Player's Handbook has this summary:
But in practice, what is the limitation of the Ranger/Paladin compared to the Fighter, since those classes have the same Weapon Proficiencies? Maybe useful for future books with other kinds of weapons? Or am I missing something?
It's an odd discrepancy, but I suspect it does have to do with the possibility of there someday being additional weapon categories beyond "simple" and "martial".
There is already one example of this: improvised weapons, which are neither simple nor martial, but which characters can be proficient with. It's irrelevant in this case because improvised weapons don't have any weapon mastery properties, but one could imagine there being someday being a new category of weapons with mastery properties that some as-yet-unreleased Paladin subclass gives them proficiency with.
It's also possible that at some point during the development process there were tighter limitations on the weapon proficiencies granted by the Paladin and Ranger classes — limitations which were removed later but which left some vestiges like this behind in other rules.
pronouns: he/she/they
My guess would be it had to do with how firearms were classified, since in 2014 they were a separate category from simple/martial, but in 2024 some have been made into baseline martial weapons. It might also related to certain magic weapons that are only attunable by a paladin / ranger which might have at one point in development been classified as something other than just simple/martial.
That's... weird. The class features are worded differently as well:
So fighters actually have less flexibility in changing their masteries, which also makes little sense
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
AntonSirius I hadn't noticed that difference :O
Thanks for your insights, guys!
This seems like it's meant as a tradeoff for the fact that Fighters eventually get more of them, while the other classes only ever get those two, but I agree it's weird.
pronouns: he/she/they
There also might have been a time in development where Paladin & Ranger didn't get full martial proficiency, e.g. Paladins might at some point not have had proficiency in ranged martial weapons (b/c they are supposed to be a melee class), or where Rangers didn't get proficiency in heavy melee weapons (b/c they are supposed to be a DEX-based class).
more of a question, the various properties after the fighter hits an enemy, like vex- do we also assume that a sentient enemy has trained with their particular weapon and would likewise gain the weapon mastery properties? Not a skeleton but a professional ruffian/bandit/mercenary? Crawford could answer but he don't work there no more...
Weapon Mastery is a class feature, so it wouldn't automatically be available to creatures that don't have a class. It's certainly something you could add to a homebrew monster but it wouldn't apply to official monsters unless it's explicitly stated in their stat block. A lot of monsters have features to their attacks that are similar to these effects anyway.
pronouns: he/she/they
Agreed. I think instead of bothering the DM with tracking mastery properties, they roll it into the attacks. Like the CR 1 pirate gets two dagger attacks. It doesn’t say that’s because of the nick property of daggers, but it is effectively giving them the nick property of daggers.
As for the OP, I agree it is strange. I’d bet it was just left over language from the design process, maybe back when they were trying to group the classes, and it never got removed. Or to leave open some subclass or another getting a different set of proficiencies, like a peaceful ranger who only gets simple weapons. As much as I’d like it to be something like future-proofing for them to bring in some kind of exotic weapon proficiency as there used to be, I doubt that’s it. Double bladed scimitar was hanging out there for years and they never did much with it, or gave it any other exotic friends.
Well, they did bring back the kendar's lacrosse stick thingie
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Yeah, but that’s just a martial weapon. I was thinking more like the revenant blade feat. Something to let you really specialize in one weapon.