So i have a question about the order of damage. From everything i have read it seem like it should be instant with all of them.
Well one of my players has the Flame Tongue Sword and Blood Fury Tattoo. So he hit a enemy, did 16 slashing and 23 necrotic. The enemy only had 30HP. So how much would he heal? Would the slashing damage do first then 14 necrotic and 14 healing to the player? or 23 necrotic and then 7 slashing and then the player healing for 23?
In general the rule for simultaneous effects (from XGTE) is that it would be the player's choice which damage applies first
If two or more things happen at the same time on a character or monster’s turn, the person at the game table — whether player or DM — who controls that creature decides the order in which those things happen.
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
If two or more things happen at the same time on a turn, the person at the game table—player or DM—whose turn it is decides the order in which those things happen. For example, if two effects occur at the start of a player character’s turn, the player decides which of the effects happens first.
I don't think Simultaneous Effect is applicable here, in the case of extra damage, they're rolled with the damage roll before damage is dealt to the target. In order words, it's the same damage instance, not two different instance of damage.
So i have a question about the order of damage. From everything i have read it seem like it should be instant with all of them.
Well one of my players has the Flame Tongue Sword and Blood Fury Tattoo. So he hit a enemy, did 16 slashing and 23 necrotic. The enemy only had 30HP. So how much would he heal? Would the slashing damage do first then 14 necrotic and 14 healing to the player? or 23 necrotic and then 7 slashing and then the player healing for 23?
I don't think it really matters what order you do those things in. Either way, you're still dealing 16 slashing damage and 23 necrotic damage. The fact that the target had fewer HP than that doesn't change the amount of damage you dealt. In that example, that extra damage doesn't do anything, but it still happens.
Keep in mind that there are situations where damage dealt beyond 0 HP does have an effect (e.g., the Massive Damage rule) so you do have to keep track of that damage in general, it doesn't just go away.
I don't think Simultaneous Effect is applicable here, in the case of extra damage, they're rolled with the damage roll before damage is dealt to the target. In order words, it's the same damage instance, not two different instance of damage.
Then how would you rule in this specific case? The target has 30 HP left, and you do 23 necrotic from the tattoo and 16 slashing from your sword. How many hit points do you regain?
Blood Fury Tattoo
When you hit a creature with a weapon attack, you can expend a charge to deal an extra 4d6 necrotic damage to the target, and you regain a number of hit points equal to the necrotic damage dealt.
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I don't see how the order of damage matters here. Blood Fury Tattoo heals for the amount of necrotic damage dealt, not the amount of hit points the target creature lost.
I don't see how the order of damage matters here. Blood Fury Tattoo heals for the amount of necrotic damage dealt, not the amount of hit points the target creature lost.
So if you do 23 points of necrotic damage to a 1 HP bat, you'd heal 23 hit points?
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I don't see how the order of damage matters here. Blood Fury Tattoo heals for the amount of necrotic damage dealt, not the amount of hit points the target creature lost.
So if you do 23 points of necrotic damage to a 1 HP bat, you'd heal 23 hit points?
Correct. You dealt 23 points of damage and the target lost 1 hit point. We know this to be the case because health lost and damage dealt being separate are fundamental to the instant death rule which looks at the remaining damage left over between what is dealt and what is lost.
I don't see how the order of damage matters here. Blood Fury Tattoo heals for the amount of necrotic damage dealt, not the amount of hit points the target creature lost.
So if you do 23 points of necrotic damage to a 1 HP bat, you'd heal 23 hit points?
Yes. As I said above, the damage dealt is the damage dealt; it isn’t affected by how many HP the target has.
I don't see how the order of damage matters here. Blood Fury Tattoo heals for the amount of necrotic damage dealt, not the amount of hit points the target creature lost.
So if you do 23 points of necrotic damage to a 1 HP bat, you'd heal 23 hit points?
RAW, yes.
In actual practice as a DM, no. Away from the rules, I'd say let the player decide the order.
But as RAW is what is dealt. Worse yet, how does it even work with Lifedrinker for a warlock? That can add even more Necrotic damage... and other things that increase Necrotic damage... it's another one where the rules aren't well written enough.
I don't think Simultaneous Effect is applicable here, in the case of extra damage, they're rolled with the damage roll before damage is dealt to the target. In order words, it's the same damage instance, not two different instance of damage.
Then how would you rule in this specific case? The target has 30 HP left, and you do 23 necrotic from the tattoo and 16 slashing from your sword. How many hit points do you regain?
I'd rule that such character would regain 23 hit points since it dealt 23 necrotic damage to the target in addition to slashing and fire damage.
Worse yet, how does it even work with Lifedrinker for a warlock? That can add even more Necrotic damage... and other things that increase Necrotic damage... it's another one where the rules aren't well written enough.
I'd rule that Blood Fury Tattoo only let you regain hit points equaling to the necrotic damage dealt by it.
Worse yet, how does it even work with Lifedrinker for a warlock? That can add even more Necrotic damage... and other things that increase Necrotic damage... it's another one where the rules aren't well written enough.
I'd rule that Blood Fury Tattoo only let you regain hit points equaling to the necrotic damage dealt by it.
Yes. Riders on abilities only apply to the ability that has them, not to any similar ability that may also be happening at the same time.
Effectively, there's an implicit "by this ability".
As a player you do not know how many HPs the target has. It would seem that should be a factor considered by DMs, if they want to vary that rule like R3sistance implied. If DMs want to allow he points to be based on how many points a target has, shouldn't they let the PC know that information?
As a player you do not know how many HPs the target has. It would seem that should be a factor considered by DMs, if they want to vary that rule like R3sistance implied. If DMs want to allow he points to be based on how many points a target has, shouldn't they let the PC know that information?
no, the player can ask generic information like does the creature look bloodied but there is no reason to be saying exactly how much HP the creature has. RAW it doesn't matter anyway but if not going with RAW then you just state how much the player gets after.
As a player you do not know how many HPs the target has. It would seem that should be a factor considered by DMs, if they want to vary that rule like R3sistance implied. If DMs want to allow he points to be based on how many points a target has, shouldn't they let the PC know that information?
Well, you'd only find out how many HP it had after the creature was dead, so it wouldn't have a huge impact on play
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
So i have a question about the order of damage. From everything i have read it seem like it should be instant with all of them.
Well one of my players has the Flame Tongue Sword and Blood Fury Tattoo. So he hit a enemy, did 16 slashing and 23 necrotic. The enemy only had 30HP. So how much would he heal? Would the slashing damage do first then 14 necrotic and 14 healing to the player? or 23 necrotic and then 7 slashing and then the player healing for 23?
All extra damage are dealt with the damage roll. You roll the damage dice, add any modifiers, and deal the damage to your target.
Such character would regain 23 hit points since it dealt 23 necrotic damage to the target in addition to slashing and fire damage.
In general the rule for simultaneous effects (from XGTE) is that it would be the player's choice which damage applies first
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Also added to the 2024 PHB.
I don't think Simultaneous Effect is applicable here, in the case of extra damage, they're rolled with the damage roll before damage is dealt to the target. In order words, it's the same damage instance, not two different instance of damage.
I don't think it really matters what order you do those things in. Either way, you're still dealing 16 slashing damage and 23 necrotic damage. The fact that the target had fewer HP than that doesn't change the amount of damage you dealt. In that example, that extra damage doesn't do anything, but it still happens.
Keep in mind that there are situations where damage dealt beyond 0 HP does have an effect (e.g., the Massive Damage rule) so you do have to keep track of that damage in general, it doesn't just go away.
pronouns: he/she/they
Then how would you rule in this specific case? The target has 30 HP left, and you do 23 necrotic from the tattoo and 16 slashing from your sword. How many hit points do you regain?
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I don't see how the order of damage matters here. Blood Fury Tattoo heals for the amount of necrotic damage dealt, not the amount of hit points the target creature lost.
So if you do 23 points of necrotic damage to a 1 HP bat, you'd heal 23 hit points?
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Correct. You dealt 23 points of damage and the target lost 1 hit point. We know this to be the case because health lost and damage dealt being separate are fundamental to the instant death rule which looks at the remaining damage left over between what is dealt and what is lost.
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Yes. As I said above, the damage dealt is the damage dealt; it isn’t affected by how many HP the target has.
pronouns: he/she/they
RAW, yes.
In actual practice as a DM, no. Away from the rules, I'd say let the player decide the order.
But as RAW is what is dealt. Worse yet, how does it even work with Lifedrinker for a warlock? That can add even more Necrotic damage... and other things that increase Necrotic damage... it's another one where the rules aren't well written enough.
I'd rule that such character would regain 23 hit points since it dealt 23 necrotic damage to the target in addition to slashing and fire damage.
I'd rule that Blood Fury Tattoo only let you regain hit points equaling to the necrotic damage dealt by it.
Yes. Riders on abilities only apply to the ability that has them, not to any similar ability that may also be happening at the same time.
Effectively, there's an implicit "by this ability".
As a player you do not know how many HPs the target has. It would seem that should be a factor considered by DMs, if they want to vary that rule like R3sistance implied. If DMs want to allow he points to be based on how many points a target has, shouldn't they let the PC know that information?
no, the player can ask generic information like does the creature look bloodied but there is no reason to be saying exactly how much HP the creature has. RAW it doesn't matter anyway but if not going with RAW then you just state how much the player gets after.
Well, you'd only find out how many HP it had after the creature was dead, so it wouldn't have a huge impact on play
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
The spell Vampiric Touch has similar effect by letting you regain Hit Points equal to half the amount of Necrotic damage dealt.
Other examples found in Magic Items could be Rod of Lordly Might or Sword of Life Stealing.