hi, how to Dm's play this? hull on a ship has 300hp and a damage threshold of 15. archer ranger can sink the ship rules as written in 8 rounds with multi attack (maybe more or less depending on crits etc), using sharpshooter and piercer feat. i find that a bit illogical and would rule arrows dont sink a ship, but i thought i would ask for a consensus from other DM'S. thanks for any advice/opinions.
Do you maybe want the Dungeon Master's Only forum? That's the forum for questions about DM'ing, this one is for rules questions
I will be honest your premise is a little confusing from the get-go, but I'll try my best to answer from a rules perspective.
I'm not exactly sure what Piercer has to do with this scenario (both features specify creatures, which vehicles are not). I assume Sharpshooter is relevant because of the -5 to hit, +10 damage.
But rules as written any source of damage that exceeds a damage threshold inflicts that much damage. So yes, a ranger or any other class that exceeds 15 damage minimum each turn would sink a ship with 300hp in a maximum of 20 rounds (15 x 20 = 300, not sure where you're getting 8 from).
Putting aside the mentioned feats or specific calculations, I think deadlander is basically saying that arrows, realistically, should not be able to sink a ship.
But even if we agreed on that opinion, as mentioned in the DMG, Rules Aren't Physics.
Putting aside the mentioned feats or specific calculations, I think deadlander is basically saying that arrows, realistically, should not be able to sink a ship.
But even if we agreed on that opinion, as mentioned in the DMG, Rules Aren't Physics.
EDIT: for clarity.
You can also argue that the ranger sinking the pirate fleet that's supposed to be a long-lasting antagonist with a longbow is not fun. The "rules aren't physics" thing is specifically about ensuring fun.
hi, how to Dm's play this? hull on a ship has 300hp and a damage threshold of 15. archer ranger can sink the ship rules as written in 8 rounds with multi attack (maybe more or less depending on crits etc), using sharpshooter and piercer feat. i find that a bit illogical and would rule arrows dont sink a ship, but i thought i would ask for a consensus from other DM'S. thanks for any advice/opinions.
Sharpshooter is going to avoid Disadvantage at long range, but not from other sources. The Bypass Cover aspect is unlikely to apply. Piercer is going to help with damage thanks to Puncture, allowing you to reroll one damage die per turn and you must keep the second result even if it is lower. Enhanced Critical won't apply because that only affects attacks against creatures. For this purpose, Savage Attacker is better but technically stacks with Piercer.
As a DM, you can house rule that any given attack does not work in a certain scenario.
Most Rangers with the Archery Fighting Style, Sharpshooter, and Piercer (usually requires a level 8 Ranger) are going be dealing 1D8+5+2 per hit with two attacks per action. Hunter's Mark doesn't help because a ship isn't a creature. On average that's 11.5 damage per hit, falling decently below the threshold. You will need to roll an 8 to deal damage. So, without accounting for criticals, one attack per turn will have a 12.5% chance of dealing 15 damage and one attack will have a 23.44% chance of dealing 15 damage. Criticals will deal extra damage, making it easier for the average damage to go through and anything that adds additional damage will help as well. However, make sure that the additional effect applies to objects. If the archer does not critically hit the ship, they are likely doing no damage that attack. If they do critically hit the ship, the average damage without Piercer is going to be 16 which is uncomfortably close to the damage threshold. I think the chance to fail to deal damage on a critical is about 1 in 3.
You're look at less than 7 damage per turn, if every attack hits and that's not correctly accounting for the fact that rerolling damage with Puncture will sometimes result in less damage with a critical so I haven't factored it on or the possibility that the critical might still fail to match or beat the threshold.
You're looking at more than 42 turns to sink a ship with a longbow and arrow.
Edit: Assuming a +8 to hit against an AC of 15, 70% of attacks will hit (at level 9, this will bump up to 75%). That makes the DPR more like 4.9 and 61+ turns to sink a ship.
But even if we agreed on that opinion, as mentioned in the DMG, Rules Aren't Physics.
Basically this is also your out. Assuming the hulls are solid wood, you can also increase the AC of the hulls as the longer an arrow travels, the less force it has to penetrate (just like bullets). That is not RAW but is physics. To account for air density (assuming this is sea level not a lake a mile high) and the actual material of the hull, have a range/AC table. Basically at close range you have one AC (the book) and for every 25 or 50 or 100 or etc. meters, you increase the AC. This way both the DM and the player knows the chances of doing damage at a particular range.
This way you are not making adjustments to actual damage rolls but the actual to hit rolls. So if you a buffed Robin Hood, he can actually damage the ship vice a regular archer who can't hit a higher AC.
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hi, how to Dm's play this? hull on a ship has 300hp and a damage threshold of 15. archer ranger can sink the ship rules as written in 8 rounds with multi attack (maybe more or less depending on crits etc), using sharpshooter and piercer feat. i find that a bit illogical and would rule arrows dont sink a ship, but i thought i would ask for a consensus from other DM'S. thanks for any advice/opinions.
Do you maybe want the Dungeon Master's Only forum? That's the forum for questions about DM'ing, this one is for rules questions
I will be honest your premise is a little confusing from the get-go, but I'll try my best to answer from a rules perspective.
I'm not exactly sure what Piercer has to do with this scenario (both features specify creatures, which vehicles are not). I assume Sharpshooter is relevant because of the -5 to hit, +10 damage.
But rules as written any source of damage that exceeds a damage threshold inflicts that much damage. So yes, a ranger or any other class that exceeds 15 damage minimum each turn would sink a ship with 300hp in a maximum of 20 rounds (15 x 20 = 300, not sure where you're getting 8 from).
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Putting aside the mentioned feats or specific calculations, I think deadlander is basically saying that arrows, realistically, should not be able to sink a ship.
But even if we agreed on that opinion, as mentioned in the DMG, Rules Aren't Physics.
EDIT: for clarity.
You can also argue that the ranger sinking the pirate fleet that's supposed to be a long-lasting antagonist with a longbow is not fun. The "rules aren't physics" thing is specifically about ensuring fun.
Sharpshooter is going to avoid Disadvantage at long range, but not from other sources. The Bypass Cover aspect is unlikely to apply. Piercer is going to help with damage thanks to Puncture, allowing you to reroll one damage die per turn and you must keep the second result even if it is lower. Enhanced Critical won't apply because that only affects attacks against creatures. For this purpose, Savage Attacker is better but technically stacks with Piercer.
As a DM, you can house rule that any given attack does not work in a certain scenario.
Most Rangers with the Archery Fighting Style, Sharpshooter, and Piercer (usually requires a level 8 Ranger) are going be dealing 1D8+5+2 per hit with two attacks per action. Hunter's Mark doesn't help because a ship isn't a creature. On average that's 11.5 damage per hit, falling decently below the threshold. You will need to roll an 8 to deal damage. So, without accounting for criticals, one attack per turn will have a 12.5% chance of dealing 15 damage and one attack will have a 23.44% chance of dealing 15 damage. Criticals will deal extra damage, making it easier for the average damage to go through and anything that adds additional damage will help as well. However, make sure that the additional effect applies to objects. If the archer does not critically hit the ship, they are likely doing no damage that attack. If they do critically hit the ship, the average damage without Piercer is going to be 16 which is uncomfortably close to the damage threshold. I think the chance to fail to deal damage on a critical is about 1 in 3.
You're look at less than 7 damage per turn, if every attack hits and that's not correctly accounting for the fact that rerolling damage with Puncture will sometimes result in less damage with a critical so I haven't factored it on or the possibility that the critical might still fail to match or beat the threshold.
You're looking at more than 42 turns to sink a ship with a longbow and arrow.
Edit: Assuming a +8 to hit against an AC of 15, 70% of attacks will hit (at level 9, this will bump up to 75%). That makes the DPR more like 4.9 and 61+ turns to sink a ship.
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My houserulings.
Basically this is also your out. Assuming the hulls are solid wood, you can also increase the AC of the hulls as the longer an arrow travels, the less force it has to penetrate (just like bullets). That is not RAW but is physics. To account for air density (assuming this is sea level not a lake a mile high) and the actual material of the hull, have a range/AC table. Basically at close range you have one AC (the book) and for every 25 or 50 or 100 or etc. meters, you increase the AC. This way both the DM and the player knows the chances of doing damage at a particular range.
This way you are not making adjustments to actual damage rolls but the actual to hit rolls. So if you a buffed Robin Hood, he can actually damage the ship vice a regular archer who can't hit a higher AC.