"If necessary, you can replace the book over the course of a short rest by using your Wizardly Quill to write arcane sigils in a blank book or a magic spellbook to which you’re attuned. At the end of the rest, your spellbook’s consciousness is summoned into the new book, which the consciousness transforms into your spellbook, along with all its spells. If the previous book still existed somewhere, all the spells vanish from its pages."
It says a) Replace b) Transform c) Doesn't mention what happens if the new attunable spellbook already has spells in it.
My player think that if he have his spellbook with X amount of spells and later finds a new spellbook that have X amount of spells - If the book is attunable he can fuse the two spellbooks spells togeather.
If he then later find another spellbook that he can attune to that have even more spells he can also attune to that and fuse the (now 3) spellbooks spells togeather. All this in just an hour and no cost bypassing thoushands of gold and time.
Can I get a clarification on this?? - it doesn't sound right and extreamly overpowered for a 2nd lvl ability (also the potential of stealing spells from other spellbooks in just two hours - transfer your spells to stolen book - transfer them back, leaving stolen book blank)
Well, there are only like 10 such magic spellbooks and are rare or higher. So I doubt it even could be a problem until high level (shouldn't find first book before level 5, and shouldn't be able to find a second before level 10. After level 11, they can become easier to find).
The magic spellbook definitely keeps ots spells when it becomes your spellbook (adding to them). I guess those spells become your spells so should transfer with it (though the magic spellbook will still magically retain a copy of its specific spells when it stops being your spellbook).
Here is a lost of the magic spellbooks that come with spells and their total spell level:
And the only very rare item on the list: Crystalline Chronicle 21 total levels of psionics spells also grants 3 cantrips. (Might have missed a book or 2, they are hard to search for).
So overall, an order of scribes wizard can spend 2 hours attuning and transferring spellbooks (twice that to keep the magic benefits of previous book instead) to a rare magic spellbook worth at least around 2000gp, all to save an average of 52 minutes and 1300gp.
I made a custom one from an archmage and it had some enchants on with a chiper puzzle to get access to it etc - anyway, they solve the puzzle and as we did start fresh to test out Tasha's subclasses I didn't know about the scribe ability. Can't know em all - so thought, he can work on that book for the reminder of the campaign.
Edit: I gave him 2 options - keep the book, not able to attune - or - I redo the book in line with the others to blanace it and he get acces right away.
Edit 2: If that's the case, that this ability "take over" spells in the book, doesn't the rules apply for copy spells also? The person who wrote them did so as they understand the theory, the mage need to study them, theorize and make his own formulas to be able to cast them?
I made a custom one from an archmage and it had some enchants on with a chiper puzzle to get access to it etc - anyway, they solve the puzzle and as we did start fresh to test out Tasha's subclasses I didn't know about the scribe ability. Can't know em all - so thought, he can work on that book for the reminder of the campaign.
Did the book have any magical properties of its own? What kind?
Edit 2: If that's the case, that this ability "take over" spells in the book, doesn't the rules apply for copy spells also? The person who wrote them did so as they understand the theory, the mage need to study them, theorize and make his own formulas to be able to cast them?
With magic spellbooks like I listed in my earlier comment, the spells are magically readable by the attuned owner. I think "it functions as a spellbook for you" is meant to convey this.
Just because the book you gave them had puzzles to solve before you gained access to it, that doesn't make the book specifically a magic item which requires attunement. In all likelihood it is just a normal spellbook once unlocked.
So I thought about it a bit more, and realized that if a wizard wrote new spells into a spellbook they were attuned to other than what the spellbook magically granted, those spells probably need to be deciphered as normal.
Just because the book you gave them had puzzles to solve before you gained access to it, that doesn't make the book specifically a magic item which requires attunement. In all likelihood it is just a normal spellbook once unlocked.
I told them - specifically "this book needs attunement" before I knew about the scribe ability.
1. Restore his lost spellbook. 2. If attuneable - book remain the same (as in functionality and effects) and his old spells are transfered over to the new book as it transforms. 3. Make the original spells in the new book his own as normal with time and cost. 4. He can also use the book in eaither of this ways without any gold/time spent to make new spells. a) Use the book as a normal spellbook. b) Use the original functionality and effects.
1. Restore his lost spellbook. 2. If attuneable - book remain the same (as in functionality and effects) and his old spells are transfered over to the new book as it transforms. 3. Make the original spells in the new book his own as normal with time and cost. 4. He can also use the book in eaither of this ways without any gold/time spent to make new spells. a) Use the book as a normal spellbook. b) Use the original functionality and effects.
Do I understand this right?
Not sure what you mean with 4, but yes, I think you understand as well as I do...
I was tired when I typed. What I did mean is that he can pick up any book that he can attune to - do the scribe ability - have both his spellbook and the attuned book in one and use them both at the same time. The spellbook as it is and the attuned book as it is but they are one.
So then, when we have established that it works this way
What happen to the last sentence in the ability?
"If the previous book still existed somewhere, all the spells vanish from its pages."
Does the attunable book return to normal or do we have a attuned book killer here?
There are several words we really have to consider in the text and this is my interpretation of RAI
"If necessary, you can replace the book over the course of a short rest by using your Wizardly Quill to write arcane sigils in a blank book or a magic spellbook to which you're attuned. At the end of the rest, your spellbook's consciousness is summoned into the new book, which the consciousness transforms into your spellbook, along with all its spells. If the previous book still existed somewhere, all the spells vanish from its pages."
If necessary is a hint to an emergency - You can, but maybe not the "best" to do, only if you really really doesn't have another option - that is why an attuned magic book is included "if" you do not have access to a blank book and lost your spellbook. A transformation isn't necessarly a permanent thing - the text doesn't mention anything about it. But if we look at other "transform" abilitys/spells - it doesn't either say in the text the duration, it is specified in a spell formula or somewhere else most of the time. In this case I take it the duration is "untill you make a new one" and the book that was your spellbook returns as it was before.
The only questionmark is about the "all spells vanish from its pages" part - I think RAI is as said earlier, "transforms into your spellbook, along with all its spells". It doesn't make much sense if a transformation erase something, e.g you lose your weapon after you was pollymorphed. In this case I think they did mean - only the spellbooks spells because it is the only spells mentioned at any given time in the text.
Well, there are only like 10 such magic spellbooks and are rare or higher. So I doubt it even could be a problem until high level (shouldn't find first book before level 5, and shouldn't be able to find a second before level 10. After level 11, they can become easier to find).
The magic spellbook definitely keeps ots spells when it becomes your spellbook (adding to them). I guess those spells become your spells so should transfer with it (though the magic spellbook will still magically retain a copy of its specific spells when it stops being your spellbook).
Here is a lost of the magic spellbooks that come with spells and their total spell level:
And the only very rare item on the list: Crystalline Chronicle 21 total levels of psionics spells also grants 3 cantrips. (Might have missed a book or 2, they are hard to search for).
So overall, an order of scribes wizard can spend 2 hours attuning and transferring spellbooks (twice that to keep the magic benefits of previous book instead) to a rare magic spellbook worth at least around 2000gp, all to save an average of 52 minutes and 1300gp.
You mention all these books but forget that in Tasha's they added grimoires - they can be attuned to and have spells in them. This make magical attunable spellbooks more common then before as a +1 grimoire is a uncommon magical item.
It need a password to be able to read it or your mind will be attacked with the books defence.
I wouldn't say that requires attunement. Usually items that require attunement offer a benefit to the user that would be problematic if stacked without restriction.
There are several words we really have to consider in the text and this is my interpretation of RAI
"If necessary, you can replace the book over the course of a short rest by using your Wizardly Quill to write arcane sigils in a blank book or a magic spellbook to which you're attuned. At the end of the rest, your spellbook's consciousness is summoned into the new book, which the consciousness transforms into your spellbook, along with all its spells. If the previous book still existed somewhere, all the spells vanish from its pages."
If necessary is a hint to an emergency - You can, but maybe not the "best" to do, only if you really really doesn't have another option - that is why an attuned magic book is included "if" you do not have access to a blank book and lost your spellbook. A transformation isn't necessarly a permanent thing - the text doesn't mention anything about it. But if we look at other "transform" abilitys/spells - it doesn't either say in the text the duration, it is specified in a spell formula or somewhere else most of the time. In this case I take it the duration is "untill you make a new one" and the book that was your spellbook returns as it was before.
The only questionmark is about the "all spells vanish from its pages" part - I think RAI is as said earlier, "transforms into your spellbook, along with all its spells". It doesn't make much sense if a transformation erase something, e.g you lose your weapon after you was pollymorphed. In this case I think they did mean - only the spellbooks spells because it is the only spells mentioned at any given time in the text.
Finding a new magic spellbook you want to use does make it necessary to transfer your spells...
The transformation effect ends when the effect says it ends. It doesn't say it ends. I guess it stops being awakened if you die, but the spell's only disappear if you move them.
You mention all these books but forget that in Tasha's they added grimoires - they can be attuned to and have spells in them. This make magical attunable spellbooks more common then before as a +1 grimoire is a uncommon magical item.
Just informing :)
I did miss that, but it doesn't add spells, so it isn't exploitable.
After all this, I stand by my conclusion that spells that are part of the item's effect are added automatically, and spells that are not require being deciphered and rewritten as normal.
Ah but you are wrong. You can find used grimoires that other people have put spells in. It's unlogical to only find new empty ones.
You are also wrong that you have to transfer spells to a new magical spellbook if you want to use it. Finding a new magical book doesn't have any requirement to put your spells in it. You can simply have two, they just need attunement if you want to use them. You can have every single magical book in Faerûn + X spellbooks.
You can attune to 3 at a time and still use X amount of normal spellbooks
"After all this, I stand by my conclusion that spells that are part of the item's effect are added automatically, and spells that are not require being deciphered and rewritten as normal." If you mean his current spellbooks spells get added - that's what I also said. But if transformed to another book I dissagree that any spells or effects are still there - they would be gone. We only dissagree on the transformation part - I see your point about the duration. However, do you think it is RAI?
Ah but you are wrong. You can find used grimoires that other people have put spells in. It's unlogical to only find new empty ones.
Let me rephrase: Adding spells to your spell list is not an effect of the arcane grimoire, unlike the other 10 magic spellbooks I listed in my first comment, so it is not exploitable like the 10 magic spellbooks that I listed in my first comment are.
You are also wrong that you have to transfer spells to a new magical spellbook if you want to use it. Finding a new magical book doesn't have any requirement to put your spells in it. You can simply have two, they just need attunement if you want to use them. You can have every single magical book in Faerûn + X spellbooks.
You can attune to 3 at a time and still use X amount of normal spellbooks
I mean, if you want to use the spellbook's magic abilities that specifically relate to spells written in it you do... Also, if you are attuned to a different spellbook you don't want to use anymore, you can't use it as a spellbook if you in attune it to attune a different book. While having multiple books is possible, it is highly impractical, not to mention goes directly contrary to the order of scribe's specific gimmick.
"After all this, I stand by my conclusion that spells that are part of the item's effect are added automatically, and spells that are not require being deciphered and rewritten as normal." If you mean his current spellbooks spells get added - that's what I also said, and the spells in the new attuned one (if any) obey the normal rules for copy then yes - I agree And the book if attuned also lose it's properties when transformed, we only dissagree on the transformation part - I see your point about the duration. However, do you think it is RAI?
I mean the 10 magic spellbooks that I first mentioned and that I keep referring to as spellbooks that add spells as part of their magic effect, because it is part of their magic effect. And spells that are written in the book that are not part of that effect are treated as normal. And while I did not mention spells transferred by the awakened spellbook in this paragraph, yes they transfer.
And no, the awakened spellbook does not remove magic properties from the attuned spellbook, only adds its own properties. I don't even see where you first suggested that.
The only parts I'm unsure about being RAI is spells added by the effect of magic spellbooks (like the 10 I listed) becoming part of the awakened spellbook's list, and spells that were added to those spellbooks by a previous owner staying when ownership changes. Everything else, I'm fairly sure about.
Well, if something transform it doesn't add. That is the whole problem with that interpretation as I see it.
If it doesn't transform the book and it keeps its properties it doesn't matter if its someone you listed or an arcane grimoire. The only thing the ability cares about is if its attunable and never specifically tell us what happens with pre-written spells.
It is crystal clear to me what this sentence mean transforms into your spellbook, along with all its spells.
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"If necessary, you can replace the book over the course of a short rest by using your Wizardly Quill to write arcane sigils in a blank book or a magic spellbook to which you’re attuned. At the end of the rest, your spellbook’s consciousness is summoned into the new book, which the consciousness transforms into your spellbook, along with all its spells. If the previous book still existed somewhere, all the spells vanish from its pages."
It says
a) Replace
b) Transform
c) Doesn't mention what happens if the new attunable spellbook already has spells in it.
My player think that if he have his spellbook with X amount of spells and later finds a new spellbook that have X amount of spells - If the book is attunable he can fuse the two spellbooks spells togeather.
If he then later find another spellbook that he can attune to that have even more spells he can also attune to that and fuse the (now 3) spellbooks spells togeather.
All this in just an hour and no cost bypassing thoushands of gold and time.
Can I get a clarification on this?? - it doesn't sound right and extreamly overpowered for a 2nd lvl ability (also the potential of stealing spells from other spellbooks in just two hours - transfer your spells to stolen book - transfer them back, leaving stolen book blank)
Well, there are only like 10 such magic spellbooks and are rare or higher. So I doubt it even could be a problem until high level (shouldn't find first book before level 5, and shouldn't be able to find a second before level 10. After level 11, they can become easier to find).
The magic spellbook definitely keeps ots spells when it becomes your spellbook (adding to them). I guess those spells become your spells so should transfer with it (though the magic spellbook will still magically retain a copy of its specific spells when it stops being your spellbook).
Here is a lost of the magic spellbooks that come with spells and their total spell level:
And the only very rare item on the list: Crystalline Chronicle 21 total levels of psionics spells also grants 3 cantrips. (Might have missed a book or 2, they are hard to search for).
So overall, an order of scribes wizard can spend 2 hours attuning and transferring spellbooks (twice that to keep the magic benefits of previous book instead) to a rare magic spellbook worth at least around 2000gp, all to save an average of 52 minutes and 1300gp.
Okay, thnx. Will be more carefull with that then, gave a lvl 4 player about 3k gold worth of spells in a spellbook. Have to retract it was attunable.
Which spellbook? Or was it just a normal spellbook with spells of your choosing in it? (That wouldn't usually require attunement).
I made a custom one from an archmage and it had some enchants on with a chiper puzzle to get access to it etc - anyway, they solve the puzzle and as we did start fresh to test out Tasha's subclasses I didn't know about the scribe ability. Can't know em all - so thought, he can work on that book for the reminder of the campaign.
Edit: I gave him 2 options - keep the book, not able to attune - or - I redo the book in line with the others to blanace it and he get acces right away.
Edit 2: If that's the case, that this ability "take over" spells in the book, doesn't the rules apply for copy spells also? The person who wrote them did so as they understand the theory, the mage need to study them, theorize and make his own formulas to be able to cast them?
Did the book have any magical properties of its own? What kind?
There are spellbook magic items like enduring spellbook and spellshard that don't require attunement.
With magic spellbooks like I listed in my earlier comment, the spells are magically readable by the attuned owner. I think "it functions as a spellbook for you" is meant to convey this.
Just because the book you gave them had puzzles to solve before you gained access to it, that doesn't make the book specifically a magic item which requires attunement. In all likelihood it is just a normal spellbook once unlocked.
So I thought about it a bit more, and realized that if a wizard wrote new spells into a spellbook they were attuned to other than what the spellbook magically granted, those spells probably need to be deciphered as normal.
I told them - specifically "this book needs attunement" before I knew about the scribe ability.
So with the scribe ability he can
1. Restore his lost spellbook.
2. If attuneable - book remain the same (as in functionality and effects) and his old spells are transfered over to the new book as it transforms.
3. Make the original spells in the new book his own as normal with time and cost.
4. He can also use the book in eaither of this ways without any gold/time spent to make new spells.
a) Use the book as a normal spellbook.
b) Use the original functionality and effects.
Do I understand this right?
Not sure what you mean with 4, but yes, I think you understand as well as I do...
I was tired when I typed. What I did mean is that he can pick up any book that he can attune to - do the scribe ability - have both his spellbook and the attuned book in one and use them both at the same time. The spellbook as it is and the attuned book as it is but they are one.
So then, when we have established that it works this way
What happen to the last sentence in the ability?
"If the previous book still existed somewhere, all the spells vanish from its pages."
Does the attunable book return to normal or do we have a attuned book killer here?
The book had these prperties
It need a password to be able to read it or your mind will be attacked with the books defence.
Have come to a conclusion about this ability.
There are several words we really have to consider in the text and this is my interpretation of RAI
"If necessary, you can replace the book over the course of a short rest by using your Wizardly Quill to write arcane sigils in a blank book or a magic spellbook to which you're attuned. At the end of the rest, your spellbook's consciousness is summoned into the new book, which the consciousness transforms into your spellbook, along with all its spells. If the previous book still existed somewhere, all the spells vanish from its pages."
If necessary is a hint to an emergency - You can, but maybe not the "best" to do, only if you really really doesn't have another option - that is why an attuned magic book is included "if" you do not have access to a blank book and lost your spellbook.
A transformation isn't necessarly a permanent thing - the text doesn't mention anything about it.
But if we look at other "transform" abilitys/spells - it doesn't either say in the text the duration, it is specified in a spell formula or somewhere else most of the time. In this case I take it the duration is "untill you make a new one" and the book that was your spellbook returns as it was before.
The only questionmark is about the "all spells vanish from its pages" part - I think RAI is as said earlier, "transforms into your spellbook, along with all its spells". It doesn't make much sense if a transformation erase something, e.g you lose your weapon after you was pollymorphed. In this case I think they did mean - only the spellbooks spells because it is the only spells mentioned at any given time in the text.
You mention all these books but forget that in Tasha's they added grimoires - they can be attuned to and have spells in them. This make magical attunable spellbooks more common then before as a +1 grimoire is a uncommon magical item.
Just informing :)
It returns to normal. All your spells disappear from it unless they are part of the book's magic properties.
I wouldn't say that requires attunement. Usually items that require attunement offer a benefit to the user that would be problematic if stacked without restriction.
Finding a new magic spellbook you want to use does make it necessary to transfer your spells...
The transformation effect ends when the effect says it ends. It doesn't say it ends. I guess it stops being awakened if you die, but the spell's only disappear if you move them.
I did miss that, but it doesn't add spells, so it isn't exploitable.
After all this, I stand by my conclusion that spells that are part of the item's effect are added automatically, and spells that are not require being deciphered and rewritten as normal.
Ah but you are wrong. You can find used grimoires that other people have put spells in. It's unlogical to only find new empty ones.
You are also wrong that you have to transfer spells to a new magical spellbook if you want to use it. Finding a new magical book doesn't have any requirement to put your spells in it. You can simply have two, they just need attunement if you want to use them. You can have every single magical book in Faerûn + X spellbooks.
You can attune to 3 at a time and still use X amount of normal spellbooks
"After all this, I stand by my conclusion that spells that are part of the item's effect are added automatically, and spells that are not require being deciphered and rewritten as normal."
If you mean his current spellbooks spells get added - that's what I also said. But if transformed to another book I dissagree that any spells or effects are still there - they would be gone.
We only dissagree on the transformation part - I see your point about the duration. However, do you think it is RAI?
Let me rephrase: Adding spells to your spell list is not an effect of the arcane grimoire, unlike the other 10 magic spellbooks I listed in my first comment, so it is not exploitable like the 10 magic spellbooks that I listed in my first comment are.
I mean, if you want to use the spellbook's magic abilities that specifically relate to spells written in it you do... Also, if you are attuned to a different spellbook you don't want to use anymore, you can't use it as a spellbook if you in attune it to attune a different book. While having multiple books is possible, it is highly impractical, not to mention goes directly contrary to the order of scribe's specific gimmick.
I mean the 10 magic spellbooks that I first mentioned and that I keep referring to as spellbooks that add spells as part of their magic effect, because it is part of their magic effect. And spells that are written in the book that are not part of that effect are treated as normal. And while I did not mention spells transferred by the awakened spellbook in this paragraph, yes they transfer.
And no, the awakened spellbook does not remove magic properties from the attuned spellbook, only adds its own properties. I don't even see where you first suggested that.
The only parts I'm unsure about being RAI is spells added by the effect of magic spellbooks (like the 10 I listed) becoming part of the awakened spellbook's list, and spells that were added to those spellbooks by a previous owner staying when ownership changes. Everything else, I'm fairly sure about.
Well, if something transform it doesn't add. That is the whole problem with that interpretation as I see it.
If it doesn't transform the book and it keeps its properties it doesn't matter if its someone you listed or an arcane grimoire. The only thing the ability cares about is if its attunable and never specifically tell us what happens with pre-written spells.
It is crystal clear to me what this sentence mean transforms into your spellbook, along with all its spells.