My first time playing D&D and I am realizing that my group heavily metagames. My main question is how would I help deal with this as a player without turning into a "That Guy". My DM for this group can't do much to stop it given the situation and how bad it is. All of the players are close friends and the player that metagames the heaviest is his sister, so yea. Hard to lay down the law when one of the people that you could piss off is the person that lives with you over summer break (Collage Students). Has anyone experienced this type of situation and is there a way to help address it from the players side that anyone has found successful without being a that guy? My current solution is to have my character have a "Character Development moment" that results in him aqureing a new custom trait I have been thinking about that doesn't impact the game mechanically in any way, but will impact my decision making as a result of the metagaming.
Quick backstory on this ^. Our group was going through a Zone of Truth set up by a religious group that is currently the ones mostly in control of how the country is run. The cult in charge basically. Because of most of our backstories, we know this will be difficult but are pretty confident that we can pass through the checkpoint without any problem. My monk that has been passive up to this point is second to last in the pecking order of who gets questioned. Our Red eyed Albino Bard is last. Part way into the checkpoint I turn and realize the bard is missing. She decided to take her Tiefling self and sneak around because this group of religious folk don't like inhumans, and because of how our DM is having the Zone work (Produces an Aura Image of the person to help show their intentions) she realized this would be a problem and opts to try and sneak around while we distract the guards by getting through. All good.
No one is able to save against the Zone of Truth, so they are all forced to speak true which leaves a few questions and causes the priests to decide to keep an eye on us while we are in this town (Breaking a guy out of prison).
I roll for the ZoT. Nat 20.
I have nothing to hide so I decide to start with a truth and follow up with a half lie that will cover everyone's story and get the religious group off our backs. Half way into what I want to say EVERYONE starts yelling at me on what I should/shouldn't say. Only get the truth out before I have to get them all to shut up so I can hear myself think and explain that I have a plan. Before I can continue, the DM moves on and asks another question to someone else and eventually we move on and I was never able to finish.
Person that yelled the most was the Tiefling Bard (Sister of the DM) WHO WASN'T EVEN THERE because she had to have her character sneak around. This means that everyone (most notibly the player doing the most metagaming for this[Who was the Bard]) Wasted my Nat 20 which would let me say anything I wanted to.
^ Ya see why this is ruining my experience. This shit is happening all the time and the DM Can't/Won't stop it.
Work Causes me to miss the following session but I will be back for the next one. I'm planning on having my story set so that I had my monk go to a local shrine for some meditations for personal reasons.
The personal reasons is that he experienced something during the zone of truth and another prior experience (Near Death experience where I almost died multiple times and saw other versions of myself) I noticed something changing within me that I had to get a handle on.
I am giving my Neutral Monk a Tripple personality disorder. The other Two personalities are Yin (Good) and Yang (Evil). When the players start metagaming to try and make a decision I roll a D20. Odds are the strength of Evil with Nat 1 being the strongest of will and Evens are the strength of good with Nat 20 being the strongest of will. The strength of the role will determine the strength of the will of the other personality and weather or not I can best it. How well I can is determined by the strength of the Metagame. If one person metagames and I role a 15, I can resist the urge and make my choice. If everyone metagames where I have a hard time thinking and I role a 15 then I can't, but the evil decision isn't that bad as apposed to if I rolled a 5. This would turn My Neutral Monk into a wild card triggered by the players choosing to metagame.
Will I be telling the DM about this? No. He hasn't been able to stop the metagaming in any way yet. I get that this is a dick move, but since he has been willing to let the players do basically anything, I figured trying to solve the problem this way could add an interesting aspect to the game that enhances the story.
The crazy monk with a voice on each shoulder telling him what to do.
Would this be to harsh or should I try to balance it in some other way? The players basically won't let me do what I want to when I want to do something anyway, so this gives me the ability to do something they want with the chance of it being to one extreme or the other.
Nat 20 on a zone of truth doesn't do anything. The caster of the zone of truth KNOWS that you passed the save and can say anything you want. Since you have to save every turn which is every 6 seconds, they will just wait until you fail to listen to your answers.
Zone of Truth
"You create a magical zone that guards against deception in a 15-foot-radius sphere centered on a point of your choice within range. Until the spell ends, a creature that enters the spell's area for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there must make a Charisma saving throw. On a failed save, a creature can't speak a deliberate lie while in the radius. You know whether each creature succeeds or fails on its saving throw.
An affected creature is aware of the spell and can thus avoid answering questions to which it would normally respond with a lie. Such a creature can be evasive in its answers as long as it remains within the boundaries of the truth."
You roll every turn and the caster KNOWS if you succeeded or not. They will just make sure that they only listen to your answers on turns when you fail. The spell lasts 10 minutes so you have to make 100 saves to manage to get through it without having to tell the truth at some point.
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I think the personality disorder idea is just bad. It isn't fun role playing and isn't a fun character. There also isn't any point. Folks will often contribute to discussions at a table, all YOU do is have your character make their own decisions based on their experience and knowledge. If someone is shouting out do this or do that then ignore them and do what YOU think your character would do. Sometimes it will be the same as the suggested advice and other times something else.
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It sounds to me, from your description, the issue is more that some of the other players at the table jump in trying to tell you what you should do and you don't like it. If they are adults, then a simple out of character chat to the players and the DM asking that they lay off the advice while you decide what to do should be enough. Explain that you want to make your own decisions for your character most of the time and if the character wants any advice then they will ask for it. If you feel that the DM isn't listening to you but instead listens more to the loudest folks then have a chat with the DM and point it out so he can try to make sure that everyone gets a chance to put in their ideas.
I'd also add that folks chatting at the table contributing to the situation isn't necessarily "metagaming". Its true that characters who aren't there should try to avoid contributing though that can honestly be pretty challenging for the many players since almost everyone likes to be able to help out. On the other hand, if the characters are present then saying something can be justified in some circumstances though when you are under a zone of truth and the NPCs are listening, not so much.
Good to know that their interruption basically saved me in that situation. Also good advice on the personality problem. I'm keeping it mind for future. puts me on the fence as to weather or not to pursue but now its a no as it would probably cause more issues then it would solve. During the Zone the players were giving instructions from both sides. Lie and Don't Lie. They were doing all of this with the understanding being that the npc's were not able to hear them even though they would be able to, so it was player to player as I was asked the question and they all piped in telling me what I should say before I got the chance rather then character to character.
Its also not so much that I don't like what they are saying, on the contrary. I had my monk stay passive starting off so I could figure out the mindset of each player/character before deciding to become directly involved. This was intended to help me when I make decisions that would best suit the party and the groups overall decision. The problem was that while I was trying to do literally what they were saying to the best of my ability, they kept cutting me off and wouldn't actually let me do anything.
As of them being Adults, I think they are, but with they way they play i'm not so sure. They over talk each other while they are trying to do something, they jump in on things that their character isn't around for, and actively have random conversations across the table about things not related to the campaign at all (Twitch, Snapchat, Youtube, ect) over talking the DM as he is trying to run a basic encounter (Gathering information, shopping, ect) with another player that doesn't take that long.
I'm trying to keep in mind what they want, what they say, and how they like to play, but it just seems that they have absolutly no respect for the DM, the other players, or the game in general. If I bring up the problem with them I'm faced with being a "That Guy" that is a stickler for the rules and doesn't like the way they play. Ill probably leave this group after this campaign, but I like the story so far and want to see how it turns out. I would just like to be able to play in it some as well rather then just be a quiet sideline character.
BlueWolf, this behavior from the other players is a problem, but it's one you can only solve one way. People like this won't figure out that there's an issue unless you talk about it with them. Luckily, that's pretty simple!
I understand that it's still really difficult to do: I once played a D&D session where some of the DM's content made me very uncomfortable, but the rest of the players seemed to enjoy it, so I didn't speak up until some time after the session, when I'd got my courage up. Before our next game, I told the group that this specific subject was kind of a trigger for me, and they respected it, appreciated that I talked about it, and moved on. We didn't have any problems after that.
The good news is, it doesn't have to be super serious. Just say "Hey guys, I had a cool idea while we were in the Zone of Truth last session, but I didn't get to say it because some of you were yelling over me and telling me what to say. I get you're excited, but that made me feel really bad. Can we please try not to talk over each other when we play?" If you're not rude and they're decent people, they should understand and probably feel bad, and they'll stop talking over you. If they claim they didn't or say you're being too dramatic, then you really need to think about whether you want to play with people who can't act like adults.
However, if you choose to go the "crazy monk" route, I'm afraid you will be a serious "that guy," especially since you haven't told the other players that their behavior bothers you or asked the DM to rein them in. You need to give them a chance to fix their mistakes: they probably don't even realize they're hurting your fun, and two wrongs definitely do not make a right.
I was, very briefly, a part of a group very similar to this. I attended only 2, maybe 3, sessions before I chose to remove myself.
I will echo what others have said about the DID thing - it sounds a bit passive aggressive, even petty to me. And I say that because it's something that I would absolutely consider doing, because I am both of those things (working on being better about it).
I think that you should, first, bring your concerns up with the DM. Just let them know that you're not having a good time with all the yelling and talking over one another. Definitely let them know that they moved on from that (and any) scene before you were done doing what you wanted to do. A DM needs to have that skill of noticing, if not asking if everyone has done everything they wanted to do before moving on - "Does anyone do anything else".
With your concerns it is good to offer at least one solution. The one that comes to mind to me is that everything spoken at the table, during play, is considered in-character. i.e. When you're speaking, you're either describing what your character is doing or saying. If you are not describing what your character is doing or saying, then you shouldn't be speaking. (Jokes and stuff should still be allowed, of course, but certainly no coaching or dictating to other players and characters).
If the DM is incapable of doing this, then I think you need to talk to them about continuing to DM. Ask why they feel they can't do that, or why they don't want to.
Otherwise, at the table, it shouldn't be a problem to say "I'm having a hard time playing and having fun with all the yelling at the table. It's distracting and I can't think about what my character would do." First, this doesn't lay blame on any individual person. Second, you're speaking about and for only yourself. Third, there is a subtle reminder of the fact that you're supposed to be playing your character, not yourself.
There is also a trick about speaking softly/quietly, forcing others to be quiet in order to hear you. I don't know how well that would work out, but thought I'd mention it at least.
If this isn't well received, then you can either grin and bear it, or try to find another group.
I saw a group where they keep forgetting about metagaming, but unlike the description above, they actually try to catch themselves and course correct. ("You have time to cast a spell at the bartender! ... I think to myself in my dreamlike state." and the other player continues the original - and not-really-useful - action as if there was no metagaming. Sometimes, they do it for fun: A split party and two were aggressively questioning a very increasingly distraught girl. DM switching the action to two others elsewhere: "I hope the guys aren't off somewhere kidnapping or harassing some teenage girl.")
One time, they even joked that the DM was metagaming, and since they catch themselves so often and apologize, he reflexively apologized immediately before he stopped and said, "Metagaming is the world I live in!"
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Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
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My first time playing D&D and I am realizing that my group heavily metagames. My main question is how would I help deal with this as a player without turning into a "That Guy". My DM for this group can't do much to stop it given the situation and how bad it is. All of the players are close friends and the player that metagames the heaviest is his sister, so yea. Hard to lay down the law when one of the people that you could piss off is the person that lives with you over summer break (Collage Students). Has anyone experienced this type of situation and is there a way to help address it from the players side that anyone has found successful without being a that guy? My current solution is to have my character have a "Character Development moment" that results in him aqureing a new custom trait I have been thinking about that doesn't impact the game mechanically in any way, but will impact my decision making as a result of the metagaming.
Quick backstory on this ^. Our group was going through a Zone of Truth set up by a religious group that is currently the ones mostly in control of how the country is run. The cult in charge basically. Because of most of our backstories, we know this will be difficult but are pretty confident that we can pass through the checkpoint without any problem. My monk that has been passive up to this point is second to last in the pecking order of who gets questioned. Our Red eyed Albino Bard is last. Part way into the checkpoint I turn and realize the bard is missing. She decided to take her Tiefling self and sneak around because this group of religious folk don't like inhumans, and because of how our DM is having the Zone work (Produces an Aura Image of the person to help show their intentions) she realized this would be a problem and opts to try and sneak around while we distract the guards by getting through. All good.
No one is able to save against the Zone of Truth, so they are all forced to speak true which leaves a few questions and causes the priests to decide to keep an eye on us while we are in this town (Breaking a guy out of prison).
I roll for the ZoT. Nat 20.
I have nothing to hide so I decide to start with a truth and follow up with a half lie that will cover everyone's story and get the religious group off our backs. Half way into what I want to say EVERYONE starts yelling at me on what I should/shouldn't say. Only get the truth out before I have to get them all to shut up so I can hear myself think and explain that I have a plan. Before I can continue, the DM moves on and asks another question to someone else and eventually we move on and I was never able to finish.
Person that yelled the most was the Tiefling Bard (Sister of the DM) WHO WASN'T EVEN THERE because she had to have her character sneak around. This means that everyone (most notibly the player doing the most metagaming for this[Who was the Bard]) Wasted my Nat 20 which would let me say anything I wanted to.
^ Ya see why this is ruining my experience. This shit is happening all the time and the DM Can't/Won't stop it.
Work Causes me to miss the following session but I will be back for the next one. I'm planning on having my story set so that I had my monk go to a local shrine for some meditations for personal reasons.
The personal reasons is that he experienced something during the zone of truth and another prior experience (Near Death experience where I almost died multiple times and saw other versions of myself) I noticed something changing within me that I had to get a handle on.
I am giving my Neutral Monk a Tripple personality disorder. The other Two personalities are Yin (Good) and Yang (Evil). When the players start metagaming to try and make a decision I roll a D20. Odds are the strength of Evil with Nat 1 being the strongest of will and Evens are the strength of good with Nat 20 being the strongest of will. The strength of the role will determine the strength of the will of the other personality and weather or not I can best it. How well I can is determined by the strength of the Metagame. If one person metagames and I role a 15, I can resist the urge and make my choice. If everyone metagames where I have a hard time thinking and I role a 15 then I can't, but the evil decision isn't that bad as apposed to if I rolled a 5. This would turn My Neutral Monk into a wild card triggered by the players choosing to metagame.
Will I be telling the DM about this? No. He hasn't been able to stop the metagaming in any way yet. I get that this is a dick move, but since he has been willing to let the players do basically anything, I figured trying to solve the problem this way could add an interesting aspect to the game that enhances the story.
The crazy monk with a voice on each shoulder telling him what to do.
Would this be to harsh or should I try to balance it in some other way? The players basically won't let me do what I want to when I want to do something anyway, so this gives me the ability to do something they want with the chance of it being to one extreme or the other.
Nat 20 on a zone of truth doesn't do anything. The caster of the zone of truth KNOWS that you passed the save and can say anything you want. Since you have to save every turn which is every 6 seconds, they will just wait until you fail to listen to your answers.
Zone of Truth
"You create a magical zone that guards against deception in a 15-foot-radius sphere centered on a point of your choice within range. Until the spell ends, a creature that enters the spell's area for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there must make a Charisma saving throw. On a failed save, a creature can't speak a deliberate lie while in the radius. You know whether
each creature succeeds or fails on its saving throw.
An affected creature is aware of the spell and can thus avoid answering questions to which it would normally respond with a lie. Such a creature can be evasive in its answers as long as it remains within the boundaries of the truth."
You roll every turn and the caster KNOWS if you succeeded or not. They will just make sure that they only listen to your answers on turns when you fail. The spell lasts 10 minutes so you have to make 100 saves to manage to get through it without having to tell the truth at some point.
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I think the personality disorder idea is just bad. It isn't fun role playing and isn't a fun character. There also isn't any point. Folks will often contribute to discussions at a table, all YOU do is have your character make their own decisions based on their experience and knowledge. If someone is shouting out do this or do that then ignore them and do what YOU think your character would do. Sometimes it will be the same as the suggested advice and other times something else.
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It sounds to me, from your description, the issue is more that some of the other players at the table jump in trying to tell you what you should do and you don't like it. If they are adults, then a simple out of character chat to the players and the DM asking that they lay off the advice while you decide what to do should be enough. Explain that you want to make your own decisions for your character most of the time and if the character wants any advice then they will ask for it. If you feel that the DM isn't listening to you but instead listens more to the loudest folks then have a chat with the DM and point it out so he can try to make sure that everyone gets a chance to put in their ideas.
I'd also add that folks chatting at the table contributing to the situation isn't necessarily "metagaming". Its true that characters who aren't there should try to avoid contributing though that can honestly be pretty challenging for the many players since almost everyone likes to be able to help out. On the other hand, if the characters are present then saying something can be justified in some circumstances though when you are under a zone of truth and the NPCs are listening, not so much.
Good to know that their interruption basically saved me in that situation. Also good advice on the personality problem. I'm keeping it mind for future. puts me on the fence as to weather or not to pursue but now its a no as it would probably cause more issues then it would solve. During the Zone the players were giving instructions from both sides. Lie and Don't Lie. They were doing all of this with the understanding being that the npc's were not able to hear them even though they would be able to, so it was player to player as I was asked the question and they all piped in telling me what I should say before I got the chance rather then character to character.
Its also not so much that I don't like what they are saying, on the contrary. I had my monk stay passive starting off so I could figure out the mindset of each player/character before deciding to become directly involved. This was intended to help me when I make decisions that would best suit the party and the groups overall decision. The problem was that while I was trying to do literally what they were saying to the best of my ability, they kept cutting me off and wouldn't actually let me do anything.
As of them being Adults, I think they are, but with they way they play i'm not so sure. They over talk each other while they are trying to do something, they jump in on things that their character isn't around for, and actively have random conversations across the table about things not related to the campaign at all (Twitch, Snapchat, Youtube, ect) over talking the DM as he is trying to run a basic encounter (Gathering information, shopping, ect) with another player that doesn't take that long.
I'm trying to keep in mind what they want, what they say, and how they like to play, but it just seems that they have absolutly no respect for the DM, the other players, or the game in general. If I bring up the problem with them I'm faced with being a "That Guy" that is a stickler for the rules and doesn't like the way they play. Ill probably leave this group after this campaign, but I like the story so far and want to see how it turns out. I would just like to be able to play in it some as well rather then just be a quiet sideline character.
Your issue isn't that players are "metagaming", it's that they're interrupting you.
BlueWolf, this behavior from the other players is a problem, but it's one you can only solve one way. People like this won't figure out that there's an issue unless you talk about it with them. Luckily, that's pretty simple!
I understand that it's still really difficult to do: I once played a D&D session where some of the DM's content made me very uncomfortable, but the rest of the players seemed to enjoy it, so I didn't speak up until some time after the session, when I'd got my courage up. Before our next game, I told the group that this specific subject was kind of a trigger for me, and they respected it, appreciated that I talked about it, and moved on. We didn't have any problems after that.
The good news is, it doesn't have to be super serious. Just say "Hey guys, I had a cool idea while we were in the Zone of Truth last session, but I didn't get to say it because some of you were yelling over me and telling me what to say. I get you're excited, but that made me feel really bad. Can we please try not to talk over each other when we play?" If you're not rude and they're decent people, they should understand and probably feel bad, and they'll stop talking over you. If they claim they didn't or say you're being too dramatic, then you really need to think about whether you want to play with people who can't act like adults.
However, if you choose to go the "crazy monk" route, I'm afraid you will be a serious "that guy," especially since you haven't told the other players that their behavior bothers you or asked the DM to rein them in. You need to give them a chance to fix their mistakes: they probably don't even realize they're hurting your fun, and two wrongs definitely do not make a right.
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
I was, very briefly, a part of a group very similar to this. I attended only 2, maybe 3, sessions before I chose to remove myself.
I will echo what others have said about the DID thing - it sounds a bit passive aggressive, even petty to me. And I say that because it's something that I would absolutely consider doing, because I am both of those things (working on being better about it).
I think that you should, first, bring your concerns up with the DM. Just let them know that you're not having a good time with all the yelling and talking over one another. Definitely let them know that they moved on from that (and any) scene before you were done doing what you wanted to do. A DM needs to have that skill of noticing, if not asking if everyone has done everything they wanted to do before moving on - "Does anyone do anything else".
With your concerns it is good to offer at least one solution. The one that comes to mind to me is that everything spoken at the table, during play, is considered in-character. i.e. When you're speaking, you're either describing what your character is doing or saying. If you are not describing what your character is doing or saying, then you shouldn't be speaking. (Jokes and stuff should still be allowed, of course, but certainly no coaching or dictating to other players and characters).
If the DM is incapable of doing this, then I think you need to talk to them about continuing to DM. Ask why they feel they can't do that, or why they don't want to.
Otherwise, at the table, it shouldn't be a problem to say "I'm having a hard time playing and having fun with all the yelling at the table. It's distracting and I can't think about what my character would do." First, this doesn't lay blame on any individual person. Second, you're speaking about and for only yourself. Third, there is a subtle reminder of the fact that you're supposed to be playing your character, not yourself.
There is also a trick about speaking softly/quietly, forcing others to be quiet in order to hear you. I don't know how well that would work out, but thought I'd mention it at least.
If this isn't well received, then you can either grin and bear it, or try to find another group.
I saw a group where they keep forgetting about metagaming, but unlike the description above, they actually try to catch themselves and course correct. ("You have time to cast a spell at the bartender! ... I think to myself in my dreamlike state." and the other player continues the original - and not-really-useful - action as if there was no metagaming. Sometimes, they do it for fun: A split party and two were aggressively questioning a very increasingly distraught girl. DM switching the action to two others elsewhere: "I hope the guys aren't off somewhere kidnapping or harassing some teenage girl.")
One time, they even joked that the DM was metagaming, and since they catch themselves so often and apologize, he reflexively apologized immediately before he stopped and said, "Metagaming is the world I live in!"
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.