Assuming no feats (like warcaster) and a prof in Shield
A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components -- or to hold a spellcasting focus -- but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components.
Spells can have three components V is not an issue leaving S or M. Either of the other two can obv be satisfied by the free hand. For spells that require both the highlighted part in the quote I think makes it quite clear. The same hand can be used. Right? So what's the point of the thread?
I'm running into those making the argument that spells requiring a Material components with cost (i.e. that can't use a spell focus) for some reason might not work. I don't understand that logic, if this is so can someone explain it? is it for casters who do not have a component pouch and thus would have to fish in their back pack for the item? and if so then wouldn't a component pouch become superior? Am I just getting confused with all the arguments about shields as a focus as an effort to get a weapon in the main hand, and if I don't care about getting the weapon there is no issue?
Assuming no feats (like warcaster) and a prof in Shield
A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components -- or to hold a spellcasting focus -- but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components.
Spells can have three components V is not an issue leaving S or M. Either of the other two can obv be satisfied by the free hand. For spells that require both the highlighted part in the quote I think makes it quite clear. The same hand can be used. Right? So what's the point of the thread?
I'm running into those making the argument that spells requiring a Material components with cost (i.e. that can't use a spell focus) for some reason might not work. I don't understand that logic, if this is so can someone explain it? is it for casters who do not have a component pouch and thus would have to fish in their back pack for the item? and if so then wouldn't a component pouch become superior? Am I just getting confused with all the arguments about shields as a focus as an effort to get a weapon in the main hand, and if I don't care about getting the weapon there is no issue?
Thanks in advance for your clarification.
As long as you have a free hand there is no issue casting the spell. If the spell has a material component with a cost then that is what is held in the free hand and the same hand can perform the somatic components. When you use a component pouch, the free hand can retrieve the needed material component. If the component has a cost then the free hand could also retrieve that. However, it would be a DM call on where the item could be retrieved from - personally, I wouldn't let a character search around the bottom of their pack for a material component - I'd rule it has to be accessible but that isn't stated.
It also isn't stated whether accessing the material component/casting focus uses the character's object interaction for the turn. I would usually include accessing the material component as part of the spellcasting in the same way that loading the ammunition into a ranged weapon is part of making the attack with the weapon and not a separate object interaction.
Assuming no feats (like warcaster) and a prof in Shield
A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components -- or to hold a spellcasting focus -- but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components.
Spells can have three components V is not an issue leaving S or M. Either of the other two can obv be satisfied by the free hand. For spells that require both the highlighted part in the quote I think makes it quite clear. The same hand can be used. Right? So what's the point of the thread?
I'm running into those making the argument that spells requiring a Material components with cost (i.e. that can't use a spell focus) for some reason might not work. I don't understand that logic, if this is so can someone explain it? is it for casters who do not have a component pouch and thus would have to fish in their back pack for the item? and if so then wouldn't a component pouch become superior? Am I just getting confused with all the arguments about shields as a focus as an effort to get a weapon in the main hand, and if I don't care about getting the weapon there is no issue?
Thanks in advance for your clarification.
We'll leave Verbal components out of this breakdown since they don't affect the results. If a spell has:
Material, no Somatic(example - Mass Suggestion): You must be able to hold the Material component in a free hand. That component can be a spell focus unless the Material component has a gold value attached to it, in which case you need that actual component.
Material, Somatic(example - Bigby's Hand): Same as above, and you can use the same hand you're holding the Material component in for the Somatic component. So you can hold your staff and wave it around, basically
Somatic, no Material(example - Burning Hands): You need a free hand that isn't holding anything, including your spell focus. So if you had a Shield on one arm, you'd have to put your component pouch or spell focus away. I believe the action economy for a turn would allow you to drop it, cast the spell, then use your free object interaction to pick it back up, but I'm not 100% on that.
As for what you can use for the Material component, a spell focus or component pouch can substitute for any Material components without a cost attached. Now, the exact wording for spells with costly components leaves a little room for interpretation. It says you have to "have" that specific component, but it doesn't say you have to "hold" that specific component. Jeremy Crawford's response to questions on this indicates a clear intent that you need to hold the costly component. Some DMs are definitely more particular about the component rules than others.
When it comes to using a Shield as a spell focus, that usually comes into play when you're talking about a Cleric or Paladin with their Holy Symbol engraved or otherwise displayed on their Shield. That will work for the Material component, and you can use your shield arm for the Somatic component if the spell requires that too. But see above re: spells with Somatic but no Material component. Cure Wounds is a big one in this instance. It's got S but no M, so the Cleric/Paladin would need to free up their other hand to lay it on the recipient. Xanathar's Guide introduced a magic item "Ruby Of The War Mage", which you can attach to a weapon and use that weapon as a spell focus. It's become VERY popular with martial spellcasters :)
Material, Somatic(example - Bigby's Hand): Same as above, and you can use the same hand you're holding the Material component in for the Somatic component. So you can hold your staff and wave it around, basically
Somatic, no Material(example - Burning Hands): You need a free hand that isn't holding anything, including your spell focus. So if you had a Shield on one arm, you'd have to put your component pouch or spell focus away. I believe the action economy for a turn would allow you to drop it, cast the spell, then use your free object interaction to pick it back up, but I'm not 100% on that.
Yes this is the double speak that gets me, and I seem to be running into. thank you for putting it in a straight forward manner (I know my OP did not). My issue with it is as follows: How can S+M be easier (action economy wise) than S. And I arrive at the idea presented by David42 above
"When you use a component pouch, the free hand can retrieve the needed material component. If the component has a cost then the free hand could also retrieve that."
i.e. you don't hold your component pouch, you dip into it. (of course this implies that a focus would be more painful to use than a component pouch .. which seems odd)
As an aside: But even if I did hold the pouch, why wouldn't my material that cost a bunch of gold not be in my component pouch? Of course it is, where else would I keep it? But if component pouch is just an abstraction for "silly things you don't need to track individually" and can't hold 5k gold of diamonds then, I can accept that (but again I don't see why I would hold the pouch)
Material, Somatic(example - Bigby's Hand): Same as above, and you can use the same hand you're holding the Material component in for the Somatic component. So you can hold your staff and wave it around, basically
Somatic, no Material(example - Burning Hands): You need a free hand that isn't holding anything, including your spell focus. So if you had a Shield on one arm, you'd have to put your component pouch or spell focus away. I believe the action economy for a turn would allow you to drop it, cast the spell, then use your free object interaction to pick it back up, but I'm not 100% on that.
Yes this is the double speak that gets me, and I seem to be running into. thank you for putting it in a straight forward manner (I know my OP did not). My issue with it is as follows: How can S+M be easier (action economy wise) than S. And I arrive at the idea presented by David42 above
"When you use a component pouch, the free hand can retrieve the needed material component. If the component has a cost then the free hand could also retrieve that."
i.e. you don't hold your component pouch, you dip into it. (of course this implies that a focus would be more painful to use than a component pouch .. which seems odd)
As an aside: But even if I did hold the pouch, why wouldn't my material that cost a bunch of gold not be in my component pouch? Of course it is, where else would I keep it? But if component pouch is just an abstraction for "silly things you don't need to track individually" and can't hold 5k gold of diamonds then, I can accept that (but again I don't see why I would hold the pouch)
I don't see why you couldn't store costly M components in your component pouch. It would certainly make using a component pouch easier than using a spell focus, but I don't think it upsets the game balance much. Besides, most of the DMs I've played with aren't so nitpicky that they make you stow your spell focus to use a costly M component, as long as you have it on you.
Material, Somatic(example - Bigby's Hand): Same as above, and you can use the same hand you're holding the Material component in for the Somatic component. So you can hold your staff and wave it around, basically
Somatic, no Material(example - Burning Hands): You need a free hand that isn't holding anything, including your spell focus. So if you had a Shield on one arm, you'd have to put your component pouch or spell focus away. I believe the action economy for a turn would allow you to drop it, cast the spell, then use your free object interaction to pick it back up, but I'm not 100% on that.
Yes this is the double speak that gets me, and I seem to be running into. thank you for putting it in a straight forward manner (I know my OP did not). My issue with it is as follows: How can S+M be easier (action economy wise) than S. And I arrive at the idea presented by David42 above
"When you use a component pouch, the free hand can retrieve the needed material component. If the component has a cost then the free hand could also retrieve that."
i.e. you don't hold your component pouch, you dip into it. (of course this implies that a focus would be more painful to use than a component pouch .. which seems odd)
As an aside: But even if I did hold the pouch, why wouldn't my material that cost a bunch of gold not be in my component pouch? Of course it is, where else would I keep it? But if component pouch is just an abstraction for "silly things you don't need to track individually" and can't hold 5k gold of diamonds then, I can accept that (but again I don't see why I would hold the pouch)
I don't see why you couldn't store costly M components in your component pouch. It would certainly make using a component pouch easier than using a spell focus, but I don't think it upsets the game balance much. Besides, most of the DMs I've played with aren't so nitpicky that they make you stow your spell focus to use a costly M component, as long as you have it on you.
Or just have a focus on a chain, so you can easily let it go (free action) without it falling to the ground and take it up again next round (as a free action, as long as you don't need any other objects that round). If the component has a cost, you would not need your focus for that spell anyway.
That’s how Flavor Flav worked his magic 😉
Sorry, I’m old, it’s early, and I didn’t sleep much lol
Assuming no feats (like warcaster) and a prof in Shield
Spells can have three components V is not an issue leaving S or M. Either of the other two can obv be satisfied by the free hand. For spells that require both the highlighted part in the quote I think makes it quite clear. The same hand can be used. Right? So what's the point of the thread?
I'm running into those making the argument that spells requiring a Material components with cost (i.e. that can't use a spell focus) for some reason might not work. I don't understand that logic, if this is so can someone explain it? is it for casters who do not have a component pouch and thus would have to fish in their back pack for the item? and if so then wouldn't a component pouch become superior? Am I just getting confused with all the arguments about shields as a focus as an effort to get a weapon in the main hand, and if I don't care about getting the weapon there is no issue?
Thanks in advance for your clarification.
You need one free hand.
The other hand can have anything you like in/on it.
As long as you have a free hand there is no issue casting the spell. If the spell has a material component with a cost then that is what is held in the free hand and the same hand can perform the somatic components. When you use a component pouch, the free hand can retrieve the needed material component. If the component has a cost then the free hand could also retrieve that. However, it would be a DM call on where the item could be retrieved from - personally, I wouldn't let a character search around the bottom of their pack for a material component - I'd rule it has to be accessible but that isn't stated.
It also isn't stated whether accessing the material component/casting focus uses the character's object interaction for the turn. I would usually include accessing the material component as part of the spellcasting in the same way that loading the ammunition into a ranged weapon is part of making the attack with the weapon and not a separate object interaction.
We'll leave Verbal components out of this breakdown since they don't affect the results. If a spell has:
Material, no Somatic(example - Mass Suggestion): You must be able to hold the Material component in a free hand. That component can be a spell focus unless the Material component has a gold value attached to it, in which case you need that actual component.
Material, Somatic(example - Bigby's Hand): Same as above, and you can use the same hand you're holding the Material component in for the Somatic component. So you can hold your staff and wave it around, basically
Somatic, no Material(example - Burning Hands): You need a free hand that isn't holding anything, including your spell focus. So if you had a Shield on one arm, you'd have to put your component pouch or spell focus away. I believe the action economy for a turn would allow you to drop it, cast the spell, then use your free object interaction to pick it back up, but I'm not 100% on that.
As for what you can use for the Material component, a spell focus or component pouch can substitute for any Material components without a cost attached. Now, the exact wording for spells with costly components leaves a little room for interpretation. It says you have to "have" that specific component, but it doesn't say you have to "hold" that specific component. Jeremy Crawford's response to questions on this indicates a clear intent that you need to hold the costly component. Some DMs are definitely more particular about the component rules than others.
When it comes to using a Shield as a spell focus, that usually comes into play when you're talking about a Cleric or Paladin with their Holy Symbol engraved or otherwise displayed on their Shield. That will work for the Material component, and you can use your shield arm for the Somatic component if the spell requires that too. But see above re: spells with Somatic but no Material component. Cure Wounds is a big one in this instance. It's got S but no M, so the Cleric/Paladin would need to free up their other hand to lay it on the recipient. Xanathar's Guide introduced a magic item "Ruby Of The War Mage", which you can attach to a weapon and use that weapon as a spell focus. It's become VERY popular with martial spellcasters :)
Yes this is the double speak that gets me, and I seem to be running into. thank you for putting it in a straight forward manner (I know my OP did not). My issue with it is as follows: How can S+M be easier (action economy wise) than S. And I arrive at the idea presented by David42 above
i.e. you don't hold your component pouch, you dip into it. (of course this implies that a focus would be more painful to use than a component pouch .. which seems odd)
As an aside: But even if I did hold the pouch, why wouldn't my material that cost a bunch of gold not be in my component pouch? Of course it is, where else would I keep it? But if component pouch is just an abstraction for "silly things you don't need to track individually" and can't hold 5k gold of diamonds then, I can accept that (but again I don't see why I would hold the pouch)
I don't see why you couldn't store costly M components in your component pouch. It would certainly make using a component pouch easier than using a spell focus, but I don't think it upsets the game balance much. Besides, most of the DMs I've played with aren't so nitpicky that they make you stow your spell focus to use a costly M component, as long as you have it on you.
That’s how Flavor Flav worked his magic 😉
Sorry, I’m old, it’s early, and I didn’t sleep much lol
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?