I'm reviewing the Suprise Rules because I'm sure I've botched it up twice now.
The DM determines who might be surprised. If neither side tries to be stealthy, they automatically notice each other. Otherwise, the DM compares the Dexterity (Stealth) checks of anyone hiding with the passive Wisdom (Perception) score of each creature on the opposing side. Any character or monster that doesn't notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter.
Does every monster have a passive perception or if none is listed in their Stat Block how does one just use the creature Perception skill and preform a contest check.
Every monster/NPC should have its passive Perception score listed in its statblock, under "Senses."
But just so you know, the general rule for calculating a creature's passive Perception score is 10 + the creature's Perception skill bonus. If a creature's Perception skill bonus is not given in its statblock, it is the same as the Wisdom modifier.
Another thing to keep in mind is that if a creature has advantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks, then 5 should be added to its passive Perception score. For example, a wolf's statblock gives its passive Perception score as 13. But its Keen Hearing and Smell trait gives it advantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks relying on hearing and smell. So if you as the DM determine that the wolf is using its hearing or smell to perceive intruders, you should be using a passive Perception score of 18 to determine surprise.
By the same token, if a creature has disadvantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks, then 5 should be subtracted from its passive Perception score. For example, dim light imposes disadvantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks relying on sight. So in dim light (note that with darkvision, dim light is perceived as bright light and total darkness is perceived as dim light), if a creature is relying on sight to perceive intruders, remember to subtract 5 from its passive Perception when you are determining surprise.
Every monster/NPC should have its passive Perception score listed in its statblock, under "Senses."
But just so you know, the general rule for calculating a creature's passive Perception score is 10 + the creature's Perception skill bonus. If a creature's Perception skill bonus is not given in its statblock, it is the same as the Wisdom modifier.
Another thing to keep in mind is that if a creature has advantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks, then 5 should be added to its passive Perception score. For example, a wolf's statblock gives its passive Perception score as 13. But its Keen Hearing and Smell trait gives it advantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks relying on hearing and smell. So if you as the DM determine that the wolf is using its hearing or smell to perceive intruders, you should be using a passive Perception score of 18 to determine surprise.
By the same token, if a creature has disadvantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks, then 5 should be subtracted from its passive Perception score.
Thanks for the information. I was looking at a Blink Dog and it only had the Perception skill but no Passive, so this would be the 10+Perception rule you explained. I'm also going to assume that the advantage/disadvantage rule was something I overlooked in the DMG than in Players, hence I need to go read up on that.
Ok, so I found the Passive Checks section in Players and I think with tripped me up was not the explicit state this applied to 'Creatures' as well as 'characters'
Thanks for the information. I was looking at a Blink Dog and it only had the Perception skill but no Passive, so this would be the 10+Perception rule you explained. I'm also going to assume that the advantage/disadvantage rule was something I overlooked in the DMG than in Players, hence I need to go read up on that.
Blink dog statblock does state its passive Perception of 13; it's under Senses. Similar to a Wolf, its passive Perception would be 18 when relying on hearing or smell. And its passive Perception would be 8 when relying on sight in dim light.
Thanks for the information. I was looking at a Blink Dog and it only had the Perception skill but no Passive, so this would be the 10+Perception rule you explained. I'm also going to assume that the advantage/disadvantage rule was something I overlooked in the DMG than in Players, hence I need to go read up on that.
Blink dog statblock does state its passive Perception of 13; it's under Senses. Similar to a Wolf, its passive Perception would be 18 when relying on hearing or smell. And its passive Perception would be 8 when relying on sight in dim light.
Yeah, my mistake. I grabbed the link from the detailed page but when I was looking for the Passive Perception was on the stat block within the Encounter Builder it did not have that sense entry. Regardless the issue was on my side not completely understand creature Passive calculation. You and others corrected that for me so I appreciate the time to respond to my post.
I wonder if this is a bug in the encounter builder or intentional? The preview block for a monster in the encounter builder seems to show every stat about the monster except their passive perception score (if they have one) which is only displayed if you click through to the full "View Details" page. That's why I ended up finding this thread as I heard mention of passive perception but had never seen it mentioned or listed in stat blocks of the encounter builder.
The fact that it only seems to be only one line missing from the builder's stat block suggests this might be a bug. The info suggested here is great for calculating the value manually thanks so at least I understand it now, or know that I can click through to find the list value on the full page.
I see it now. Poor editing/play testing, because the way it’s telling you to use Passive Perception for enemies is NOT the way that Oassive Perception works for player characters. Sigh.
Please forgive formatting, mobile posts are limited...
“The DM determines who might be surprised. If neither side tries to be stealthy, they automatically notice each other. Otherwise, the DM compares the Dexterity (Stealth) checks of anyone hiding with the passive Wisdom (Perception) score of each creature on the opposing side. Any character or monster that doesn't notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter.”
And
HIDING
The DM decides when circumstances are appropriate for hiding. When you try to hide, make a Dexterity (Stealth) check. Until you are discovered or you stop hiding, that check's total is contested by the Wisdom (Perception) check of any creature that actively searches for signs of your presence...
Passive Perception. When you hide, there's a chance someone will notice you even if they aren't searching. To determine whether such a creature notices you, the DM compares your Dexterity (Stealth) check with that creature's passive Wisdom (Perception) score, which equals 10 + the creature's Wisdom modifier, as well as any other bonuses or penalties. If the creature has advantage, add 5. For disadvantage, subtract 5. For example, if a 1st-level character (with a proficiency bonus of +2) has a Wisdom of 15 (a +2 modifier) and proficiency in Perception, he or she has a passive Wisdom (Perception) of 14.
I'm reviewing the Suprise Rules because I'm sure I've botched it up twice now.
Does every monster have a passive perception or if none is listed in their Stat Block how does one just use the creature Perception skill and preform a contest check.
Every monster/NPC should have its passive Perception score listed in its statblock, under "Senses."
But just so you know, the general rule for calculating a creature's passive Perception score is 10 + the creature's Perception skill bonus. If a creature's Perception skill bonus is not given in its statblock, it is the same as the Wisdom modifier.
Another thing to keep in mind is that if a creature has advantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks, then 5 should be added to its passive Perception score. For example, a wolf's statblock gives its passive Perception score as 13. But its Keen Hearing and Smell trait gives it advantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks relying on hearing and smell. So if you as the DM determine that the wolf is using its hearing or smell to perceive intruders, you should be using a passive Perception score of 18 to determine surprise.
By the same token, if a creature has disadvantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks, then 5 should be subtracted from its passive Perception score. For example, dim light imposes disadvantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks relying on sight. So in dim light (note that with darkvision, dim light is perceived as bright light and total darkness is perceived as dim light), if a creature is relying on sight to perceive intruders, remember to subtract 5 from its passive Perception when you are determining surprise.
Thanks for the information. I was looking at a Blink Dog and it only had the Perception skill but no Passive, so this would be the 10+Perception rule you explained. I'm also going to assume that the advantage/disadvantage rule was something I overlooked in the DMG than in Players, hence I need to go read up on that.
Ok, so I found the Passive Checks section in Players and I think with tripped me up was not the explicit state this applied to 'Creatures' as well as 'characters'
Blink dog statblock does state its passive Perception of 13; it's under Senses. Similar to a Wolf, its passive Perception would be 18 when relying on hearing or smell. And its passive Perception would be 8 when relying on sight in dim light.
Yeah, my mistake. I grabbed the link from the detailed page but when I was looking for the Passive Perception was on the stat block within the Encounter Builder it did not have that sense entry. Regardless the issue was on my side not completely understand creature Passive calculation. You and others corrected that for me so I appreciate the time to respond to my post.
I wonder if this is a bug in the encounter builder or intentional? The preview block for a monster in the encounter builder seems to show every stat about the monster except their passive perception score (if they have one) which is only displayed if you click through to the full "View Details" page. That's why I ended up finding this thread as I heard mention of passive perception but had never seen it mentioned or listed in stat blocks of the encounter builder.
The fact that it only seems to be only one line missing from the builder's stat block suggests this might be a bug. The info suggested here is great for calculating the value manually thanks so at least I understand it now, or know that I can click through to find the list value on the full page.
Cheers.
Passive Perception is not a relevant skill for a monster to have. Again, Passive scores are not always-on radar or the floor of a rolled skill check, they are intended to represent the average of a continuous activity, or to be used by the DM to secretly check a player's success at something that they don't want to tip them off about by asking for a roll. DMs can and should be rolling active Perception checks for their monsters (using the +X Perception skill bonus listed in their stat block if there is one, or just their Wisdom modifier if there isn't) when appropriate.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
The rules specifically state to contest active Dexterity (Stealth) checks against passive Wisdom (Perception) scores to determine surprise.
I’m on my phone, but I don’t see that. Link/quote?
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
I see it now. Poor editing/play testing, because the way it’s telling you to use Passive Perception for enemies is NOT the way that Oassive Perception works for player characters. Sigh.
Please forgive formatting, mobile posts are limited...
“The DM determines who might be surprised. If neither side tries to be stealthy, they automatically notice each other. Otherwise, the DM compares the Dexterity (Stealth) checks of anyone hiding with the passive Wisdom (Perception) score of each creature on the opposing side. Any character or monster that doesn't notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter.”
And
HIDING
The DM decides when circumstances are appropriate for hiding. When you try to hide, make a Dexterity (Stealth) check. Until you are discovered or you stop hiding, that check's total is contested by the Wisdom (Perception) check of any creature that actively searches for signs of your presence...
Passive Perception. When you hide, there's a chance someone will notice you even if they aren't searching. To determine whether such a creature notices you, the DM compares your Dexterity (Stealth) check with that creature's passive Wisdom (Perception) score, which equals 10 + the creature's Wisdom modifier, as well as any other bonuses or penalties. If the creature has advantage, add 5. For disadvantage, subtract 5. For example, if a 1st-level character (with a proficiency bonus of +2) has a Wisdom of 15 (a +2 modifier) and proficiency in Perception, he or she has a passive Wisdom (Perception) of 14.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.