So I'm running a campaign with a Forge Cleric that has the spells Creation and Fabricate. With the rules written on each, he came to the conclusion that it's possible to use Creation to produce a 5-foot cube of gold coins (counting them as precious metals) within a large chest. Normally, the coins would disappear after an hour, but that's where Fabricate comes in.
He took a gold coin that didn't come from the Creation spell and put it in the chest with the false gold. Using Fabricate, he mixed the materials together (both considered raw gold for the argument of the spell, regardless of how they came to be), and converted them back into gold coins. My player argues that the coins are now considered the effect of the Fabricate spell, and not the Creation spell. Since the Fabricate spell lists no duration for the converted materials, he believes the massive pile of coins should remain permanent.
Now... I know that this should technically come down to a DM ruling since we're talking about the absence of a restriction rather than a written one. My argument here is that the material used came from the Shadowfell, and using Fabricate on the materials would be no different than melting it down into something else; after the duration of Creation comes up, the material (in any form) must disappear. That said, I don't want to snuff out a sense of player creativity or agency if I don't have to, so I wanted to get the consensus from some other players and DMs.
Please let me know what you think! I'm gonna place a poll with some other potential arguments here, but my primary point still stands at "you can do it, but the materials would still disappear after the duration is up."
The materials vanish at the end of Creation's duration. It doesn't matter what you've done with them during it. If you turned them into coins or a chest or something, those coins and chest disappear, or at least the parts made from the Creation materials.
It's not even a DM thing. It's what the spell says. You can overrule, but that's a slippery slope as allowing it means infinite riches and more. If you want a game where they can generate wealth as they please and end up buying entire countries, then allow it. Otherwise, it's a no. So it depends on whether infinite money is fine or not.
If sticking by RAW, though, then no. The materials go poof.
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Since the fabricate spell doesn't list a material component, and creation restrictions on the use of created items is only on their use as a material component, I would allow their use in the Fabricate spell. the material here is the target of the spell, not the component.
That said, there is no rule that says material can only be under the effects of one spell at a time or that unrelated effects supercede one another, so the material would still be subject to the rules of the Creation spell and would vanish after the allotted time. Since its mixed with one real coin, after an hour you would find chunks equaling one gold coin in the chest.
The RAI of the Creation spell (at least as I understand it) is that there is not any way for the items to be made permanent as that would wreck the D&D economy.
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So I'm running a campaign with a Forge Cleric that has the spells Creation and Fabricate. With the rules written on each, he came to the conclusion that it's possible to use Creation to produce a 5-foot cube of gold coins (counting them as precious metals) within a large chest. Normally, the coins would disappear after an hour, but that's where Fabricate comes in.
He took a gold coin that didn't come from the Creation spell and put it in the chest with the false gold. Using Fabricate, he mixed the materials together (both considered raw gold for the argument of the spell, regardless of how they came to be), and converted them back into gold coins. My player argues that the coins are now considered the effect of the Fabricate spell, and not the Creation spell. Since the Fabricate spell lists no duration for the converted materials, he believes the massive pile of coins should remain permanent.
Now... I know that this should technically come down to a DM ruling since we're talking about the absence of a restriction rather than a written one. My argument here is that the material used came from the Shadowfell, and using Fabricate on the materials would be no different than melting it down into something else; after the duration of Creation comes up, the material (in any form) must disappear. That said, I don't want to snuff out a sense of player creativity or agency if I don't have to, so I wanted to get the consensus from some other players and DMs.
Please let me know what you think! I'm gonna place a poll with some other potential arguments here, but my primary point still stands at "you can do it, but the materials would still disappear after the duration is up."
The materials vanish at the end of Creation's duration. It doesn't matter what you've done with them during it. If you turned them into coins or a chest or something, those coins and chest disappear, or at least the parts made from the Creation materials.
It's not even a DM thing. It's what the spell says. You can overrule, but that's a slippery slope as allowing it means infinite riches and more. If you want a game where they can generate wealth as they please and end up buying entire countries, then allow it. Otherwise, it's a no. So it depends on whether infinite money is fine or not.
If sticking by RAW, though, then no. The materials go poof.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Since the fabricate spell doesn't list a material component, and creation restrictions on the use of created items is only on their use as a material component, I would allow their use in the Fabricate spell. the material here is the target of the spell, not the component.
That said, there is no rule that says material can only be under the effects of one spell at a time or that unrelated effects supercede one another, so the material would still be subject to the rules of the Creation spell and would vanish after the allotted time. Since its mixed with one real coin, after an hour you would find chunks equaling one gold coin in the chest.
The RAI of the Creation spell (at least as I understand it) is that there is not any way for the items to be made permanent as that would wreck the D&D economy.