So last week we were playing our homebrew campaign as we do almost every week and at the end their was a counterspell vs counterspell that we weren't entirely sure how to properly resolve. The situation was this:
1.) The bad guy was trying to escape via a portal
2.) I use Dispel Magic using a 3rd level spell slot
3.) Bad Guy uses Counterspell to try to stop my Dispel Magic
4.) I use my own Counterspell at 3rd level to stop his Counterspell.
Our DM resolved it by saying something along the lines of his counterspell being stronger than mine and so he gets away, which I'm fine with as DM gets ultimate say, but I'm just curious as to what would actually happen.
1. If the enemy used a spell to summon the portal (assuming it was greater than 3rd) you should have made a DC check equal to 10+level. If it wasn't a spell dispel should have failed.
2. Enemy counterspelling you is fine.
3. If you counterspelled back, the enemy doesn't insta-win through having a "stronger" counterspell. If he had upcast it then you would have had to make another spellcasting check.
So no, RAW this sequence wouldn't happen. I guess your DM had nothing as backup and needed this bad guy to escape - probably the BBEG who needs to be alive.
Depending on what portal he was using you probably couldn't use just dispel magic to stop him (that's what counterspell is for) but yes, you can counterspell counterspells. Whether or not it works follows the same rules for counterspelling any other spell. If the bad guy used a higher level spell slot than you it would work, if not he would have to roll for it.
The guy was some sort of artificer, or maybe just someone who likes to make constructs and can do magic, but most definitely not the bbeg of the campaign. I'm not entirely sure if the portal was made with a spell, because if I remember correctly it just kinda showed up. As for our checks, I'm pretty sure we forgot. In our defense, it was rather late and some of us were in very different time zones, so I think the DM just made a snap decision before ending the game right there.
The guy was some sort of artificer, or maybe just someone who likes to make constructs and can do magic, but most definitely not the bbeg of the campaign. I'm not entirely sure if the portal was made with a spell, because if I remember correctly it just kinda showed up. As for our checks, I'm pretty sure we forgot. In our defense, it was rather late and some of us were in very different time zones, so I think the DM just made a snap decision before ending the game right there.
Sounds like a good solution for that particular situation. In the future you might have more time to works things out and play it differently if needed.
The only way any Counterspell can automatically beat another is if it is cast as a reaction to the first counterspell AND ...
His Counter spell was cast using a spell slot HIGH enough to automatically beat your caster level.
At Higher Levels.
When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 4th level or higher, the interrupted spell has no effect if its level is less than or equal to the level of the spell slot you used.
But from your description, that did not happen.
It should have gone like this.
You cast Dispel Magic on the Portal - and are about to roll an ability check of DC = 10 + spell level when...
As a reaction to the Dispel Magic, he casts a Counterspell, which should automatically counter a 3rd level Dispel Magic EXCEPT....
You cast Counterspell. You auto counter his Counterspell because if he used a regular 3rd level slot. If he used a higher level slot than you did, you would have toll an ability check.
Once you finish countering the spell, you FINALLY get a chance to roll your ability check to see if you dispel the portal.
The only way any Counterspell can automatically beat another is if it is cast as a reaction to the first counterspell AND ...
His Counter spell was cast using a spell slot HIGH enough to automatically beat your caster level.
At Higher Levels.
When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 4th level or higher, the interrupted spell has no effect if its level is less than or equal to the level of the spell slot you used.
But from your description, that did not happen.
It should have gone like this.
You cast Dispel Magic on the Portal - and are about to roll an ability check of DC = 10 + spell level when...
As a reaction to the Dispel Magic, he casts a Counterspell, which should automatically counter a 3rd level Dispel Magic EXCEPT....
You cast Counterspell. You auto counter his Counterspell because if he used a regular 3rd level slot. If he used a higher level slot than you did, you would have toll an ability check.
Once you finish countering the spell, you FINALLY get a chance to roll your ability check to see if you dispel the portal.
I thought so. I was kinda thinking it using Yugioh logic where you work in reverse order, but it’s good to have my suspicions confirmed. Like I said before, I’m not gonna make a big stink about this, it’s just good to know for the next time. Thank you and everyone else in resolving this conundrum for me.
So last week we were playing our homebrew campaign as we do almost every week and at the end their was a counterspell vs counterspell that we weren't entirely sure how to properly resolve. The situation was this:
1.) The bad guy was trying to escape via a portal
2.) I use Dispel Magic using a 3rd level spell slot
3.) Bad Guy uses Counterspell to try to stop my Dispel Magic
4.) I use my own Counterspell at 3rd level to stop his Counterspell.
Our DM resolved it by saying something along the lines of his counterspell being stronger than mine and so he gets away, which I'm fine with as DM gets ultimate say, but I'm just curious as to what would actually happen.
Did any of you do checks?
1. If the enemy used a spell to summon the portal (assuming it was greater than 3rd) you should have made a DC check equal to 10+level. If it wasn't a spell dispel should have failed.
2. Enemy counterspelling you is fine.
3. If you counterspelled back, the enemy doesn't insta-win through having a "stronger" counterspell. If he had upcast it then you would have had to make another spellcasting check.
So no, RAW this sequence wouldn't happen. I guess your DM had nothing as backup and needed this bad guy to escape - probably the BBEG who needs to be alive.
Depending on what portal he was using you probably couldn't use just dispel magic to stop him (that's what counterspell is for) but yes, you can counterspell counterspells. Whether or not it works follows the same rules for counterspelling any other spell. If the bad guy used a higher level spell slot than you it would work, if not he would have to roll for it.
The guy was some sort of artificer, or maybe just someone who likes to make constructs and can do magic, but most definitely not the bbeg of the campaign. I'm not entirely sure if the portal was made with a spell, because if I remember correctly it just kinda showed up. As for our checks, I'm pretty sure we forgot. In our defense, it was rather late and some of us were in very different time zones, so I think the DM just made a snap decision before ending the game right there.
Sounds like a good solution for that particular situation. In the future you might have more time to works things out and play it differently if needed.
The only way any Counterspell can automatically beat another is if it is cast as a reaction to the first counterspell AND ...
His Counter spell was cast using a spell slot HIGH enough to automatically beat your caster level.
But from your description, that did not happen.
It should have gone like this.
I thought so. I was kinda thinking it using Yugioh logic where you work in reverse order, but it’s good to have my suspicions confirmed. Like I said before, I’m not gonna make a big stink about this, it’s just good to know for the next time. Thank you and everyone else in resolving this conundrum for me.
I cast Dispel Magic level 5 against a Level 7 Spell effect.
My opponent casts level 4 Counterspell as a reaction against my Level 5 Dispel Magic.
I cast level 3 Counterspell as a reaction against the enemy level 4 Counterspell.
Actions are now all accounted for and no reactions left or willing to be used. Now we go backwards through the list:
1) I roll ability check vs DC 14 to negate his counterspell.
a) Success: the enemy Counterspell is negated by my Counterspell and go to #3
b) Failure, go to #2
2) Enemy rolls an ability check vs DC 15 to Counterspell my dispel Magic.
a) Success: the Dispel Magic is negated and my turn is over.
b) Failure, go to #3
3) I roll my ability check vs DC 17 to Dispel the Spell effect.