I have a rather persistent player who is asking why Magic Stone is listed as a bonus action and she cannot cast it 'at' someone and still attack/cast another primary spell (chain lightning..w/e). I have explained that the 'bonus action' part is just the enchantment of the rocks and the reason that damage is listed in the spell description is the damage dealt if she hits a target with the now magic rock with her 'action'. Her argument is that since it is listed as a bonus action, the entirety of the spell includes the throwing of the rock. I am unable to get through to her after many deep breaths and rerouting of key points. Anyone have advice?
Enchanting the rocks is a bonus action. Then you can use your action to throw them or sling them or give them to somebody else.
The spell does NOT use the verbiage "As part of the action used to cast this spell, you must make a melee attack" nor does it say "When you cast this spell, or as an action on a later turn,"
AND
Bonus Action
A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn. You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
The other posts above explain how the RAI is supposed to work, but If you look at magic stone and compare it to something like eldritch blast then, to me it wasn't as obvious why one works differently than the other. The only reason that I can come up with is the targets of the spells. For other spells that give you multiple attacks, their targets are the creatures the attacks are against, and the spells tell you what happens to those creatures. For magic stone, the targets are the stones, and the rest of the spell tells you what you can do with those stones after casting the spell. The spell attack cannot be part of casting the spell, because the spell is between the caster and stones, so it must be something after the fact. It would be nice if the spell is a little clearer on that, but that is my best attempt at RAW why the two are different.
The other posts above explain how the RAI is supposed to work, but If you look at magic stone and compare it to something like eldritch blast then, to me it wasn't as obvious why one works differently than the other. The only reason that I can come up with is the targets of the spells. For other spells that give you multiple attacks, their targets are the creatures the attacks are against, and the spells tell you what happens to those creatures. For magic stone, the targets are the stones, and the rest of the spell tells you what you can do with those stones after casting the spell. The spell attack cannot be part of casting the spell, because the spell is between the caster and stones, so it must be something after the fact. It would be nice if the spell is a little clearer on that, but that is my best attempt at RAW why the two are different.
The RAW difference is that Eldritch Blast says “make a ranged spell attack” while Magic Stone says “you or someone else can make a ranged spell attack.” Magic Stone provides an option that you or someone else can use if allowed to make an attack by some other rule; it doesn’t tell you to do the attack right now.
Even though the target of Magic Stone is the stones, if its language were “You touch one to three pebbles and imbue them with magic. Make a ranged spell attack against a target... On a hit,... blah blah,” then the attack would be part of the spell, because the spell is instructing you to make that attack.
Hello,
I have a rather persistent player who is asking why Magic Stone is listed as a bonus action and she cannot cast it 'at' someone and still attack/cast another primary spell (chain lightning..w/e). I have explained that the 'bonus action' part is just the enchantment of the rocks and the reason that damage is listed in the spell description is the damage dealt if she hits a target with the now magic rock with her 'action'. Her argument is that since it is listed as a bonus action, the entirety of the spell includes the throwing of the rock. I am unable to get through to her after many deep breaths and rerouting of key points. Anyone have advice?
Evan
Just show her the description. Print it out and highlight some of the words. Or just say it's a homebrew rule
I accidentally exploded a PC's heart one time...
Enchanting the rocks is a bonus action. Then you can use your action to throw them or sling them or give them to somebody else.
The spell does NOT use the verbiage "As part of the action used to cast this spell, you must make a melee attack" nor does it say "When you cast this spell, or as an action on a later turn,"
AND
Bonus Action
A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn. You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Give them this SageAdvice link.
I thought i would get rickrolled lol. The link is safe!
I accidentally exploded a PC's heart one time...
The other posts above explain how the RAI is supposed to work, but If you look at magic stone and compare it to something like eldritch blast then, to me it wasn't as obvious why one works differently than the other. The only reason that I can come up with is the targets of the spells. For other spells that give you multiple attacks, their targets are the creatures the attacks are against, and the spells tell you what happens to those creatures. For magic stone, the targets are the stones, and the rest of the spell tells you what you can do with those stones after casting the spell. The spell attack cannot be part of casting the spell, because the spell is between the caster and stones, so it must be something after the fact. It would be nice if the spell is a little clearer on that, but that is my best attempt at RAW why the two are different.
The RAW difference is that Eldritch Blast says “make a ranged spell attack” while Magic Stone says “you or someone else can make a ranged spell attack.” Magic Stone provides an option that you or someone else can use if allowed to make an attack by some other rule; it doesn’t tell you to do the attack right now.
Even though the target of Magic Stone is the stones, if its language were “You touch one to three pebbles and imbue them with magic. Make a ranged spell attack against a target... On a hit,... blah blah,” then the attack would be part of the spell, because the spell is instructing you to make that attack.
Thank you, I will try this. It is my wife and she is very new to the game, so I have to tread carefully or change my address to the couch.
Evan
What you can do as an option is to suggest a spell change to Produce Flame. No strings.
1 - it does more damage.
2 - it behaves like how she wants.
3 - it's multi functional.
4 - it looks cool.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale