My question is, do the spells that I get from the Mark of Hospitality spell list, do they count as the spells from the class that I use, or are they a standalone thing?
Eg. if I am using a wizard and am at LVL 18, can I choose good berry as my spell mastery?
If you have the Spellcasting or the Pact Magic class feature, the spells on the Mark of Hospitality Spells table are added to the spell list of your spellcasting class.
So I would say yes, those spells explicitly count as spells of your spellcasting class, whatever it is, because the feature specifically says so.
I also think that, reading that as written, it only adds those spells to your spellcasting class list - it does NOT mean you automatically know them or have them prepared, you simply have the option of choosing to learn them the same way you normally learn spells.
The feature explicitly adds them to your spell list; if you don't have a spell list Spells of the Mark's expanded spell list doesn't do anything. If you do, the feature gives you more options to choose from.
So would I be able to get them with the spell mastery feature of wizards? Cause it only allows me to add spells from the wizard spell list. In the server that I play DnD we can lvl up super quick so I was curious about it. Cause if I can use the mark spells then I can just take a spell from the mark that gives cure wounds and use those spells as my spell mastery.
The feature explicitly adds them to your spell list; if you don't have a spell list Spells of the Mark's expanded spell list doesn't do anything. If you do, the feature gives you more options to choose from.
Right, but there is a difference between spell list and known spells. If it is just spell list, it is a minor advantage at best for rangers, bards and sorcerers, a full advantage for other non-ranger divine casters (paladin, cleric, druid) and a strange advantage to wizards. The other classes all know the spells (if chosen, where applicable) innately, but wizards learn them as conventional knowledge, despite the commonality of the Mark.
Again, from where do such wizards learn such spells? Do they have to seek out another wizard who has the same mark?
Either that, or they find a spell scroll for the spell they want to copy, and copy it as per the normal rules.
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Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
The feature explicitly adds them to your spell list; if you don't have a spell list Spells of the Mark's expanded spell list doesn't do anything. If you do, the feature gives you more options to choose from.
Right, but there is a difference between spell list and known spells. If it is just spell list, it is a minor advantage at best for rangers, bards and sorcerers, a full advantage for other non-ranger divine casters (paladin, cleric, druid) and a strange advantage to wizards. The other classes all know the spells (if chosen, where applicable) innately, but wizards learn them as conventional knowledge, despite the commonality of the Mark.
Again, from where do such wizards learn such spells? Do they have to seek out another wizard who has the same mark?
Either that, or they find a spell scroll for the spell they want to copy, and copy it as per the normal rules.
So they find a clerical or druidic scroll and can read it as if it was a wizard spell... because reasons? You are giving a mechanics answer but may as well say 'The DM tells you that you learn the spell and what the costs are.'
The dragonmarks, in lore, are a cosmic prophecy made manifest on mortal flesh, it's going to screw with the normal established rules of reality (be it in universe or meta from our perspective). like... come on. it *literally* makes it so they can find a clerical or druidic scroll and be able to read it as if it were a wizard spell, because they are a part of the great Draconic Prophecy in some manner... so, in other words, "Screw the rules, I have a magical prophetic birthmark."
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Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
The feature explicitly adds them to your spell list; if you don't have a spell list Spells of the Mark's expanded spell list doesn't do anything. If you do, the feature gives you more options to choose from.
Right, but there is a difference between spell list and known spells. If it is just spell list, it is a minor advantage at best for rangers, bards and sorcerers, a full advantage for other non-ranger divine casters (paladin, cleric, druid) and a strange advantage to wizards. The other classes all know the spells (if chosen, where applicable) innately, but wizards learn them as conventional knowledge, despite the commonality of the Mark.
Again, from where do such wizards learn such spells? Do they have to seek out another wizard who has the same mark?
Either that, or they find a spell scroll for the spell they want to copy, and copy it as per the normal rules.
So they find a clerical or druidic scroll and can read it as if it was a wizard spell... because reasons? You are giving a mechanics answer but may as well say 'The DM tells you that you learn the spell and what the costs are.'
The dragonmarks, in lore, are a cosmic prophecy made manifest on mortal flesh, it's going to screw with the normal established rules of reality (be it in universe or meta from our perspective). like... come on. it *literally* makes it so they can find a clerical or druidic scroll and be able to read it as if it were a wizard spell, because they are a part of the great Draconic Prophecy in some manner... so, in other words, "Screw the rules, I have a magical prophetic birthmark."
Right. So why, exactly, should they not be equal across classes? If it is a cosmic birthright that you know this information, why should you not simply know it? If you do not have any spellcasting ability you would not know how to use it but the knowledge is there in the Mark. At least that is how I look at it.
Because that's how Wizards decided to do it. Literally the only answer here. This is relieved slightly by Keith Baker in his Exploring Eberron book where he provides magic items that allows anyone to cast their Spells of the Mark as though they knew them in exchange for charges though.
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Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
The feature explicitly adds them to your spell list; if you don't have a spell list Spells of the Mark's expanded spell list doesn't do anything. If you do, the feature gives you more options to choose from.
Right, but there is a difference between spell list and known spells. If it is just spell list, it is a minor advantage at best for rangers, bards and sorcerers, a full advantage for other non-ranger divine casters (paladin, cleric, druid) and a strange advantage to wizards. The other classes all know the spells (if chosen, where applicable) innately, but wizards learn them as conventional knowledge, despite the commonality of the Mark.
Again, from where do such wizards learn such spells? Do they have to seek out another wizard who has the same mark?
Either that, or they find a spell scroll for the spell they want to copy, and copy it as per the normal rules.
So they find a clerical or druidic scroll and can read it as if it was a wizard spell... because reasons? You are giving a mechanics answer but may as well say 'The DM tells you that you learn the spell and what the costs are.'
The dragonmarks, in lore, are a cosmic prophecy made manifest on mortal flesh, it's going to screw with the normal established rules of reality (be it in universe or meta from our perspective). like... come on. it *literally* makes it so they can find a clerical or druidic scroll and be able to read it as if it were a wizard spell, because they are a part of the great Draconic Prophecy in some manner... so, in other words, "Screw the rules, I have a magical prophetic birthmark."
Right. So why, exactly, should they not be equal across classes? If it is a cosmic birthright that you know this information, why should you not simply know it? If you do not have any spellcasting ability you would not know how to use it but the knowledge is there in the Mark. At least that is how I look at it.
Because that's how Wizards decided to do it. Literally the only answer here. This is relieved slightly by Keith Baker in his Exploring Eberron book where he provides magic items that allows anyone to cast their Spells of the Mark as though they knew them in exchange for charges though.
We have placed arbitrary limits on your character. For a meager $30 ($60 for the hard cover, twice the cost of the actual official Eberron book) we'll sell you this book that contains a charged item to alleviate said arbitrary limit.....
Hmmm....
Look, Keith did what he could with Wizards on the official Eberron book, so he put together his own book to fulfill a desire he himself felt. A book that took multiple years to write with an entire crew and get to publish to even include a hardcover purchase option that can be shipped worldwide via a third-party site since Wizards couldn't be bothered to let the setting creator *create rules for his setting*. We don't know what negotiations happened behind the scenes. Maybe Keith wanted these items in Rising from the Last War and Wizards said no. We do know Gnolls were supposed to be playable but Crawford shot that down, we don't know who screwed whom, but chances are high Wizards said no.
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Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
WotC definitely did not intend them to be known spells. The wording is very, very clear. They work like warlocks’ expanded spell lists, not like clerics’ domain spells.
Spells of the Mark. If you have the Spellcasting or the Pact Magic class feature, the spells on the Mark of Detection Spells table are added to the spell list of your spellcasting class.
The spells are simply added to your spell list for your spellcasting class. They are not known, which is covered by the other element of the dragonmark, for example Mark of Detection:
Magical Detection. You can cast the detect magic and detect poison and disease spells with this trait. Starting at 3rd level, you can also cast the see invisibility spell with it. Once you cast any of these spells with this trait, you can’t cast that spell with it again until you finish a long rest. Intelligence is your spellcasting ability for these spells, and you don’t require material components for them.
As for the why, that'd be a question for Wizards and/or Keith Baker.
Spells of the Mark. If you have the Spellcasting or the Pact Magic class feature, the spells on the Mark of Detection Spells table are added to the spell list of your spellcasting class.
The spells are simply added to your spell list for your spellcasting class. They are not known, which is covered by the other element of the dragonmark, for example Mark of Detection:
Magical Detection. You can cast the detect magic and detect poison and disease spells with this trait. Starting at 3rd level, you can also cast the see invisibility spell with it. Once you cast any of these spells with this trait, you can’t cast that spell with it again until you finish a long rest. Intelligence is your spellcasting ability for these spells, and you don’t require material components for them.
As for the why, that'd be a question for Wizards and/or Keith Baker.
Well it would be impossible for them to be known without being on your list. And for some classes, being on your spell list means automatically known, even if not automatically prepared. So not sure how that is unambiguous.
Can you maybe explain what ambiguity you're seeing? I fail to see how your conclusion follows from what you say before it.
You're also abusing terminology a bit. There are no classes for which a spell being on its spell list means "automatically known." Clerics, druids, etc. do not "know" their spells in the way that sorcerers, bards, etc. do. In a vernacular sense, yes, absolutely, but mechanical terminology is what's relevant here, and knowing spells versus preparing spells is the prime difference between these types of classes. Spells of the Mark adds a number of spells to the spell list of the spellcasting class of the dragonmarked character. No more, no less. The effect of a spell being on the class's spell list depends on the class. Clerics and druids can prepare the new spells whenever they complete a long rest as normal. A sorcerer or warlock is able to choose the spells as one of their spells known. That's what it means for a spell to be on the spell list of those classes.
Spells of the Mark. If you have the Spellcasting or the Pact Magic class feature, the spells on the Mark of Detection Spells table are added to the spell list of your spellcasting class.
The spells are simply added to your spell list for your spellcasting class. They are not known, which is covered by the other element of the dragonmark, for example Mark of Detection:
Magical Detection. You can cast the detect magic and detect poison and disease spells with this trait. Starting at 3rd level, you can also cast the see invisibility spell with it. Once you cast any of these spells with this trait, you can’t cast that spell with it again until you finish a long rest. Intelligence is your spellcasting ability for these spells, and you don’t require material components for them.
As for the why, that'd be a question for Wizards and/or Keith Baker.
Well it would be impossible for them to be known without being on your list. And for some classes, being on your spell list means automatically known, even if not automatically prepared. So not sure how that is unambiguous.
Can you maybe explain what ambiguity you're seeing? I fail to see how your conclusion follows from what you say before it.
You're also abusing terminology a bit. There are no classes for which a spell being on its spell list means "automatically known." Clerics, druids, etc. do not "know" their spells in the way that sorcerers, bards, etc. do. In a vernacular sense, yes, absolutely, but mechanical terminology is what's relevant here, and knowing spells versus preparing spells is the prime difference between these types of classes. Spells of the Mark adds a number of spells to the spell list of the spellcasting class of the dragonmarked character. No more, no less. The effect of a spell being on the class's spell list depends on the class. Clerics and druids can prepare the new spells whenever they complete a long rest as normal. A sorcerer or warlock is able to choose the spells as one of their spells known. That's what it means for a spell to be on the spell list of those classes.
Clerics, druids and paladins 'know' all their spells to their level of casting capacity. They prepare which they plan on having ready for the day. That is different from sorcerers who have more limited capacity, but cast by their own innate power, essentially what they are born with. As a sorcerer levels up, new powers awaken. They are never 'learned' per se. They simply innately know what they know.
Again, that's incorrect mechanically, which is what matters here, as I already explained.
That it adds to the spell list is clear. That it does not add to the character's knowledge is less clear. It does not say that the latter happens but it similarly does not say that it does not. In the case of clerics, druids and paladins, it clearly does.
Rules don't say what they don't do. It doesn't say it adds anything to the list of spells known, so it doesn't. It doesn't even in the case of clerics, druids, and paladins, for reasons already stated, but apparently ignored.
As for warlocks, it also says that the mark can be the warlock's patron, which would make for an interesting situation since the marks are not described as sentient in any way, nor are there any rules for Dragonmarks as Warlock patrons. That alone suggests that the rules regarding dragonmarks are not complete or not strictly as intended, either way leaving aspects for the DM to figure out.
No, it doesn't. The specific identity of a warlock's patron is mechanically irrelevant. Any of the warlock subclasses can use a dragonmark as the specific patron. Nothing suggests the existence of some new, unspoken rules that the DM has to intuit or invent. If a DM wants to homebrew a new subclass focused on the idea of a dragonmark as "patron," then great! But that has nothing to do with how Spells of the Mark works.
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So,
My question is, do the spells that I get from the Mark of Hospitality spell list, do they count as the spells from the class that I use, or are they a standalone thing?
Eg. if I am using a wizard and am at LVL 18, can I choose good berry as my spell mastery?
I believe so. The text of the mark of hospitality (I'm looking at https://www.dndbeyond.com/races/halfling#MarkofHospitalityHalfling ) says
So I would say yes, those spells explicitly count as spells of your spellcasting class, whatever it is, because the feature specifically says so.
I also think that, reading that as written, it only adds those spells to your spellcasting class list - it does NOT mean you automatically know them or have them prepared, you simply have the option of choosing to learn them the same way you normally learn spells.
The feature explicitly adds them to your spell list; if you don't have a spell list Spells of the Mark's expanded spell list doesn't do anything. If you do, the feature gives you more options to choose from.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
So would I be able to get them with the spell mastery feature of wizards? Cause it only allows me to add spells from the wizard spell list. In the server that I play DnD we can lvl up super quick so I was curious about it. Cause if I can use the mark spells then I can just take a spell from the mark that gives cure wounds and use those spells as my spell mastery.
Yep, spells of the mark are added to your wizard spell list, so count as wizard spells for features that check for that.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
Aah thanks for that XD
Either that, or they find a spell scroll for the spell they want to copy, and copy it as per the normal rules.
Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
The dragonmarks, in lore, are a cosmic prophecy made manifest on mortal flesh, it's going to screw with the normal established rules of reality (be it in universe or meta from our perspective). like... come on. it *literally* makes it so they can find a clerical or druidic scroll and be able to read it as if it were a wizard spell, because they are a part of the great Draconic Prophecy in some manner... so, in other words, "Screw the rules, I have a magical prophetic birthmark."
Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
Because that's how Wizards decided to do it. Literally the only answer here. This is relieved slightly by Keith Baker in his Exploring Eberron book where he provides magic items that allows anyone to cast their Spells of the Mark as though they knew them in exchange for charges though.
Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
Look, Keith did what he could with Wizards on the official Eberron book, so he put together his own book to fulfill a desire he himself felt. A book that took multiple years to write with an entire crew and get to publish to even include a hardcover purchase option that can be shipped worldwide via a third-party site since Wizards couldn't be bothered to let the setting creator *create rules for his setting*. We don't know what negotiations happened behind the scenes. Maybe Keith wanted these items in Rising from the Last War and Wizards said no. We do know Gnolls were supposed to be playable but Crawford shot that down, we don't know who screwed whom, but chances are high Wizards said no.
Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
WotC definitely did not intend them to be known spells. The wording is very, very clear. They work like warlocks’ expanded spell lists, not like clerics’ domain spells.
Is that dumb? Yes. Is it ambiguous? No.
The wording is pretty unambiguous:
The spells are simply added to your spell list for your spellcasting class. They are not known, which is covered by the other element of the dragonmark, for example Mark of Detection:
As for the why, that'd be a question for Wizards and/or Keith Baker.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
Can you maybe explain what ambiguity you're seeing? I fail to see how your conclusion follows from what you say before it.
You're also abusing terminology a bit. There are no classes for which a spell being on its spell list means "automatically known." Clerics, druids, etc. do not "know" their spells in the way that sorcerers, bards, etc. do. In a vernacular sense, yes, absolutely, but mechanical terminology is what's relevant here, and knowing spells versus preparing spells is the prime difference between these types of classes. Spells of the Mark adds a number of spells to the spell list of the spellcasting class of the dragonmarked character. No more, no less. The effect of a spell being on the class's spell list depends on the class. Clerics and druids can prepare the new spells whenever they complete a long rest as normal. A sorcerer or warlock is able to choose the spells as one of their spells known. That's what it means for a spell to be on the spell list of those classes.
Again, that's incorrect mechanically, which is what matters here, as I already explained.
Rules don't say what they don't do. It doesn't say it adds anything to the list of spells known, so it doesn't. It doesn't even in the case of clerics, druids, and paladins, for reasons already stated, but apparently ignored.
No, it doesn't. The specific identity of a warlock's patron is mechanically irrelevant. Any of the warlock subclasses can use a dragonmark as the specific patron. Nothing suggests the existence of some new, unspoken rules that the DM has to intuit or invent. If a DM wants to homebrew a new subclass focused on the idea of a dragonmark as "patron," then great! But that has nothing to do with how Spells of the Mark works.