Hello! Building my very first character and I would like to ask your opinions on something... My character is a 2lvl Divine Soul Sorcerer + 1lvl Death Cleric Fallen Aasimar.
My intention is not to be a melee character at the front of my party, but I am assuming I'll find myself at reach distance from enemies many times.
Would you rather: A) Shield + Longsword + War Caster (feat) B) Glaive + Polearm master (feat)
What do you think I could benefit from the most? Taking the +2AC + ADV in concentration saving throws? Or having reach + extra damage on each melee attack + opportunity attacks?
Any other interesting option I might be not taking into consideration? (other feats I was looking at instead: alert, spell sniper, fey touched, shadow touched, telekinetic, ..?)
Thaaaanks! :)
EDIT: DM gives a feat of our choice to each one in the party to start with
First bit of advice tho you won’t like it: don’t multiclass - pick either of your classes and play a single class till you are familiar with playing and pacing. If you insist on multiclassing start with the cleric at L1 then add the sorcerer at L2 if only to get the most HP you can. I would go with warcaster as your feat as it will apply to both your clerical and sorceror spells. Neither cleric nor sorceror grant martial weapons so youcan’t really start with a pole arm without a second feat to get it so PAM is useless. Besides you will be using cantrips much more for attacks from the back.once you make L3 spiritual weapon will be your go to much of the time.
First bit of advice tho you won’t like it: don’t multiclass - pick either of your classes and play a single class till you are familiar with playing and pacing. If you insist on multiclassing start with the cleric at L1 then add the sorcerer at L2 if only to get the most HP you can. I would go with warcaster as your feat as it will apply to both your clerical and sorceror spells. Neither cleric nor sorceror grant martial weapons so youcan’t really start with a pole arm without a second feat to get it so PAM is useless. Besides you will be using cantrips much more for attacks from the back.once you make L3 spiritual weapon will be your go to much of the time.
Please actually read up on the subclasses before you start giving 'advice'. Death domain Clerics get proficiency with martial weapons so the OP can run around with a glaive if he or she chooses, however my advice is don't even bother with a weapon. Just carry a shield and wear medium armor, keeping 1 hand free for spellcasting. Another part I disagree with is starting Cleric 1st level. The pros is obviously better armor, slightly more starting hp and WIS saving throws. However starting Sorcerer at 1st level gives you CON saving throws which is very helpful towards maintaining concentration on spells especially when paired with Warcaster which I also suggest you take over Polearm Master. Also the lower armor is compensated with the Shield spell and provided you stay alive for 1 session you will most likely hit level 2 and get all the Cleric goodness.
First bit of advice tho you won’t like it: don’t multiclass - pick either of your classes and play a single class till you are familiar with playing and pacing. If you insist on multiclassing start with the cleric at L1 then add the sorcerer at L2 if only to get the most HP you can. I would go with warcaster as your feat as it will apply to both your clerical and sorceror spells. Neither cleric nor sorceror grant martial weapons so youcan’t really start with a pole arm without a second feat to get it so PAM is useless. Besides you will be using cantrips much more for attacks from the back.once you make L3 spiritual weapon will be your go to much of the time.
Please actually read up on the subclasses before you start giving 'advice'. Death domain Clerics get proficiency with martial weapons so the OP can run around with a glaive if he or she chooses, however my advice is don't even bother with a weapon. Just carry a shield and wear medium armor, keeping 1 hand free for spellcasting. Another part I disagree with is starting Cleric 1st level. The pros is obviously better armor, slightly more starting hp and WIS saving throws. However starting Sorcerer at 1st level gives you CON saving throws which is very helpful towards maintaining concentration on spells especially when paired with Warcaster which I also suggest you take over Polearm Master. Also the lower armor is compensated with the Shield spell and provided you stay alive for 1 session you will most likely hit level 2 and get all the Cleric goodness.
Thanks ThelonelyMagi! I was a bit confused about the Martial Weapons part, so thanks for clarifying that.
The campaign starts with characters at lvl 3, and I did choose Sorcerer as lvl1 (bc of the CON saving throws, as you mentioned), 2nd lvl as Cleric and 3rd Sorcerer again :) Besides the armor proficiency, I was also interested in the Reaper feature from cleric, as my intention was to rely on necromancy cantrips for dmg.
I appreciate your advice on feats, that was one of my biggest doubts. Flavour-wise, I do like the glaive and not wearing a shield tbh. That was why I kept considering Polearm Master. BUT the advantage on CON saves from War Caster seems to make more sense with the build (as you mention) than just making some extra dmg at melee distance. Same with the shield...
That’s a fair complaint TLM, Your right I should have looked up the death cleric in particular. It doesn’t really change my point tho as a sorceror or a cleric you are normally not about being on the front line so weapon choice and weapon feats shouldn’t be priorities. Yes you have to choose between a con save and a wisdom save, and yes in the end you want both so that means deciding which to take at L4 or later. In my opinion getting the wisdom save and advantage on con saves by going cleric first does more for you earlier than going sorceror first and having to wait to at least L4 to take resilience (wisdom). At level 1 with cleric and war caster you get a charisma save, a wisdom save and advantage on con saves, you get medium armor and yes you can take a polearm if you want for reach attacks over your friends as well as clerical cantrips and spells. Then (300EXP) later you pick up sorceror cantrips and spells - which can include shield for even better armor when you need it.
at level 1 with sorceror you get a charisma save, a con save with advantage, no wisdom save, limited armour (AC15 -16 with Dex), the use of the shield spell for 2-3 rounds, limited weapons and lower hit points. To my mind starting with cleric and picking up sorceror at level 2 then resiliency (con) at level 4 makes much more sense. But what do I know? and for a first time player just trying to learn the game I still say playing just one class is far easier than trying to keep 2 different classes sorted out and deciding what to do from their possibilities.
That’s a fair complaint TLM, Your right I should have looked up the death cleric in particular. It doesn’t really change my point tho as a sorceror or a cleric you are normally not about being on the front line so weapon choice and weapon feats shouldn’t be priorities. Yes you have to choose between a con save and a wisdom save, and yes in the end you want both so that means deciding which to take at L4 or later. In my opinion getting the wisdom save and advantage on con saves by going cleric first does more for you earlier than going sorceror first and having to wait to at least L4 to take resilience (wisdom). At level 1 with cleric and war caster you get a charisma save, a wisdom save and advantage on con saves, you get medium armor and yes you can take a polearm if you want for reach attacks over your friends as well as clerical cantrips and spells. Then (300EXP) later you pick up sorceror cantrips and spells - which can include shield for even better armor when you need it.
at level 1 with sorceror you get a charisma save, a con save with advantage, no wisdom save, limited armour (AC15 -16 with Dex), the use of the shield spell for 2-3 rounds, limited weapons and lower hit points. To my mind starting with cleric and picking up sorceror at level 2 then resiliency (con) at level 4 makes much more sense. But what do I know? and for a first time player just trying to learn the game I still say playing just one class is far easier than trying to keep 2 different classes sorted out and deciding what to do from their possibilities.
All fair points, we just have a difference of opinion which is all good. D&D is all about having fun with your style of play, so whatever you have fun playing is the 'correct' build.
Something else that I dont believe is mentioned, is with the MC the OP posted...he'll rely on str to do anything with those weapons. str is nearly 100% of the time a total dump stat for a sorcerer. OP, you're going to need high charisma, 14-16 dex (14 if you have the medium armor, 16 if not) and preferrably 14-16 con. You can't have those stats up there /and/ get str to a useful level.
Neither glaive, nor longsword are useful to you. The only martial weapon with any real value for you is the rapier...because you're rarely going to hit with the other weapons. Frankly, I would dispense with the weapon entirely and use the Toll the Dead cantrip if you're stuck in melee whether you have a weapon or not. The other option would be to try shocking grasp, so you can use your move to escape after a successful attack.
For a free feat of choice? I'm taking fey touched and never looking back.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Neither cleric nor sorceror grant martial weapons so youcan’t really start with a pole arm without a second feat to get it so PAM is useless.
Fun fact, Quarterstaff and spear qualifies as polearms and can be used with PAM :) None of them has reach though. Both Sorc and cleric are proficient with Quarterstaffs, cleric are also proficient in spears.
Yep, but he wanted a reach weapon so it doesn’t really matter.the gist of my statement still holds true ( also it was already pointed out that death cleric actually does get martial weapons and I admitted my mistake)
Quote from _hanafuda_>> My character is a 2lvl Divine Soul Sorcerer + 1lvl Death Cleric Fallen Aasimar.
My intention is not to be a melee character at the front of my party, but I am assuming I'll find myself at reach distance from enemies many times.
Would you rather: A) Shield + Longsword + War Caster (feat) B) Glaive + Polearm master (feat)
What do you think I could benefit from the most? Taking the +2AC + ADV in concentration saving throws? Or having reach + extra damage on each melee attack + opportunity attacks?
EDIT: DM gives a feat of our choice to each one in the party to start with
Here is my read: If your intent is to avoid melee, don't go with polearm master. It's a fine feat as it goes, but in addition to what you've read above, think about the action economy. What competes for that bonus action? Spiritual Weapon (one of the best cleric spells in the early game)? Healing Word? Quickened Spell? Granted the cost is less because it's a 'free' feat, but there is an opportunity cost. I bet if you picked this, you would still have a good time. You might want to pump strength.
I would pick warcaster because you can have a shield and a weapon and still ball out. It makes your proficiency in con saves that much better. I also like the way it complements your reaper ability. You can get a 'free' twinned toll the dead on a reaction. Not bad!
Other notes: I would pick chill touch as my cantrip fwiw to have both an attack and a save cantrip (toll the dead) for damage. Plus it jives with the whole death cleric thing.
For max efficiency, you should in general try to use your attack cantrips to benefit from reaper. You might have to make a call that your cleric spells are for buffing/rituals and your sorcery is for attacks and effects (or vice versa) so that you can focus on one of either Wis or Cha. Look at your skills for guidance here maybe.
The Reaper ability of the Death Cleric does not specify the class of the spell but only the school. If you're leaning into that and plan to use Sorcery for killing, that could change how you approach your your bonus cantrip. It seems though that other than Chill Touch, which is on the sorcerer list anyway, the only cantrip not on the Cleric list already is the brand new one Sapping Sting. Maybe use it for Spare the Dying and use your Sorcerer class to pick up Toll and Chill Touch.
Just some rambling thoughts! I like the idea.
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Hello!
Building my very first character and I would like to ask your opinions on something...
My character is a 2lvl Divine Soul Sorcerer + 1lvl Death Cleric Fallen Aasimar.
My intention is not to be a melee character at the front of my party, but I am assuming I'll find myself at reach distance from enemies many times.
Would you rather:
A) Shield + Longsword + War Caster (feat)
B) Glaive + Polearm master (feat)
What do you think I could benefit from the most?
Taking the +2AC + ADV in concentration saving throws?
Or having reach + extra damage on each melee attack + opportunity attacks?
Any other interesting option I might be not taking into consideration?
(other feats I was looking at instead: alert, spell sniper, fey touched, shadow touched, telekinetic, ..?)
Thaaaanks! :)
EDIT: DM gives a feat of our choice to each one in the party to start with
First bit of advice tho you won’t like it: don’t multiclass - pick either of your classes and play a single class till you are familiar with playing and pacing.
If you insist on multiclassing start with the cleric at L1 then add the sorcerer at L2 if only to get the most HP you can. I would go with warcaster as your feat as it will apply to both your clerical and sorceror spells. Neither cleric nor sorceror grant martial weapons so youcan’t really start with a pole arm without a second feat to get it so PAM is useless. Besides you will be using cantrips much more for attacks from the back.once you make L3 spiritual weapon will be your go to much of the time.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Makes sense. Thanks! :)
Please actually read up on the subclasses before you start giving 'advice'. Death domain Clerics get proficiency with martial weapons so the OP can run around with a glaive if he or she chooses, however my advice is don't even bother with a weapon. Just carry a shield and wear medium armor, keeping 1 hand free for spellcasting. Another part I disagree with is starting Cleric 1st level. The pros is obviously better armor, slightly more starting hp and WIS saving throws. However starting Sorcerer at 1st level gives you CON saving throws which is very helpful towards maintaining concentration on spells especially when paired with Warcaster which I also suggest you take over Polearm Master. Also the lower armor is compensated with the Shield spell and provided you stay alive for 1 session you will most likely hit level 2 and get all the Cleric goodness.
Thanks ThelonelyMagi!
I was a bit confused about the Martial Weapons part, so thanks for clarifying that.
The campaign starts with characters at lvl 3, and I did choose Sorcerer as lvl1 (bc of the CON saving throws, as you mentioned), 2nd lvl as Cleric and 3rd Sorcerer again :)
Besides the armor proficiency, I was also interested in the Reaper feature from cleric, as my intention was to rely on necromancy cantrips for dmg.
I appreciate your advice on feats, that was one of my biggest doubts. Flavour-wise, I do like the glaive and not wearing a shield tbh. That was why I kept considering Polearm Master. BUT the advantage on CON saves from War Caster seems to make more sense with the build (as you mention) than just making some extra dmg at melee distance. Same with the shield...
Again, thanks!!
That’s a fair complaint TLM, Your right I should have looked up the death cleric in particular. It doesn’t really change my point tho as a sorceror or a cleric you are normally not about being on the front line so weapon choice and weapon feats shouldn’t be priorities. Yes you have to choose between a con save and a wisdom save, and yes in the end you want both so that means deciding which to take at L4 or later. In my opinion getting the wisdom save and advantage on con saves by going cleric first does more for you earlier than going sorceror first and having to wait to at least L4 to take resilience (wisdom). At level 1 with cleric and war caster you get a charisma save, a wisdom save and advantage on con saves, you get medium armor and yes you can take a polearm if you want for reach attacks over your friends as well as clerical cantrips and spells. Then (300EXP) later you pick up sorceror cantrips and spells - which can include shield for even better armor when you need it.
at level 1 with sorceror you get a charisma save, a con save with advantage, no wisdom save, limited armour (AC15 -16 with Dex), the use of the shield spell for 2-3 rounds, limited weapons and lower hit points. To my mind starting with cleric and picking up sorceror at level 2 then resiliency (con) at level 4 makes much more sense. But what do I know?
and for a first time player just trying to learn the game I still say playing just one class is far easier than trying to keep 2 different classes sorted out and deciding what to do from their possibilities.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
All fair points, we just have a difference of opinion which is all good. D&D is all about having fun with your style of play, so whatever you have fun playing is the 'correct' build.
Very true
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Something else that I dont believe is mentioned, is with the MC the OP posted...he'll rely on str to do anything with those weapons. str is nearly 100% of the time a total dump stat for a sorcerer. OP, you're going to need high charisma, 14-16 dex (14 if you have the medium armor, 16 if not) and preferrably 14-16 con. You can't have those stats up there /and/ get str to a useful level.
Neither glaive, nor longsword are useful to you. The only martial weapon with any real value for you is the rapier...because you're rarely going to hit with the other weapons. Frankly, I would dispense with the weapon entirely and use the Toll the Dead cantrip if you're stuck in melee whether you have a weapon or not. The other option would be to try shocking grasp, so you can use your move to escape after a successful attack.
For a free feat of choice? I'm taking fey touched and never looking back.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Fun fact, Quarterstaff and spear qualifies as polearms and can be used with PAM :) None of them has reach though.
Both Sorc and cleric are proficient with Quarterstaffs, cleric are also proficient in spears.
Yep, but he wanted a reach weapon so it doesn’t really matter.the gist of my statement still holds true ( also it was already pointed out that death cleric actually does get martial weapons and I admitted my mistake)
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Here is my read: If your intent is to avoid melee, don't go with polearm master. It's a fine feat as it goes, but in addition to what you've read above, think about the action economy. What competes for that bonus action? Spiritual Weapon (one of the best cleric spells in the early game)? Healing Word? Quickened Spell? Granted the cost is less because it's a 'free' feat, but there is an opportunity cost. I bet if you picked this, you would still have a good time. You might want to pump strength.
I would pick warcaster because you can have a shield and a weapon and still ball out. It makes your proficiency in con saves that much better. I also like the way it complements your reaper ability. You can get a 'free' twinned toll the dead on a reaction. Not bad!
Other notes:
I would pick chill touch as my cantrip fwiw to have both an attack and a save cantrip (toll the dead) for damage. Plus it jives with the whole death cleric thing.
For max efficiency, you should in general try to use your attack cantrips to benefit from reaper. You might have to make a call that your cleric spells are for buffing/rituals and your sorcery is for attacks and effects (or vice versa) so that you can focus on one of either Wis or Cha. Look at your skills for guidance here maybe.
The Reaper ability of the Death Cleric does not specify the class of the spell but only the school. If you're leaning into that and plan to use Sorcery for killing, that could change how you approach your your bonus cantrip. It seems though that other than Chill Touch, which is on the sorcerer list anyway, the only cantrip not on the Cleric list already is the brand new one Sapping Sting. Maybe use it for Spare the Dying and use your Sorcerer class to pick up Toll and Chill Touch.
Just some rambling thoughts! I like the idea.