I am a fan of Dragonlance, but I have never been a part of a game set in the world (a fan of the novels). In the world, what is the reasoning for all arcane magic users being forced to become members of the Mages of High Sorcery? Are there benefits to being a member, or is it mere intimidation? What if someone resists or refuses? I've been through the Dragonlance Wiki, but I'm not finding much info on this topic. Is there any other reading I can do?
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C. Foster Payne
"If you get to thinkin' you're a person of some influence, try orderin' somebody else's dog around."
If you are not part of the Mages of High Sorcery you are pretty much a hedge mage. You would find it hard to advance in your magical skills and acquire any resources. Think of it almost as being in a fraternity like the Masons, the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn or such...the ability to network, wheel and deal behind the scenes and have large libraries/resources at your disposal. Also, you have been tested and the world knows you have rules to follow and are not so much a loose cannon. I don't think they actively hunt down users of magic that aren't part of the organization other than trying to get them to go about the "proper" way.
If you are not part of the Mages of High Sorcery you are pretty much a hedge mage. You would find it hard to advance in your magical skills and acquire any resources....
And I get this... but it's not like a character can be stopped from advancing character levels in their class. I mean, sorcerers just gain power as they level. Wizards I suppose I could limit... not allow them get automatic spells as they level. Just seems like a jerk move to me. I'm just having issues wrapping my mind around how to deal with an arcane spellcaster in my game who doesn't want to be "tied" to the Towers of High Sorcery.
There absolutely was institutional intimidation against and persecution of non-WoHS mages in previous editions. In previous official material, these mages were specifically called 'renegades.' Note that according to previous fiction describing the War of the Lance, all mages were mistrusted and even hated by the common folk in this era, due to their perceived inaction during the Cataclysm, and the Towers of High Sorcery were abandoned except for Wayreth, which was hidden from all non-wizards.
If I remember correctly, advancement to a certain unspecified low level was unmonitored, but wizards who failed to take their test beyond a certain point in their studies were absolutely identified, located, and given a hard choice. Dragonlance Adventures (1987) refers to renegade wizards as being "considered by all orders to be a menace to the balance of magic... a threat that either must be neutralized or eliminated."
The book goes on in some detail describing each order's approach to dealing with renegades, but with the exception of a reluctance on the part of the White Robes to destroy renegades, and a tendency of Black Robes to attempt to sway any renegade toward evil, they all look more or less the same: capture and bring before the Conclave, or destroy.
Renegade wizards brought before the Conclave who refuse to take the Test and join an order were "cast out from the realms of Krynn and the circles of the world." (Whatever that means!)
An interesting aside: in AD&D1 and 2, Wizards of High Sorcery had a different advancement track than vanilla PHB wizards, and renegade wizards continued to use the PHB track. The rules were explicit that all wizards coming to Krynn from other settings were renegades by default.
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J Great Wyrm Moonstone Dungeon Master
The time of the ORC has come. No OGL without irrevocability; no OGL with 'authorized version' language. #openDND
Practice, practice, practice • Respect the rules; don't memorize them • Be merciless, not cruel • Don't let the dice run the game for you
And I get this... but it's not like a character can be stopped from advancing character levels in their class. I mean, sorcerers just gain power as they level. Wizards I suppose I could limit... not allow them get automatic spells as they level. Just seems like a jerk move to me. I'm just having issues wrapping my mind around how to deal with an arcane spellcaster in my game who doesn't want to be "tied" to the Towers of High Sorcery.
I don't think you fully understand the advancement process of wizards or sorcerers and several other casting classes. Sure as a DM you can simply say sure you gained levels, you automatically know any new spells you are capable of casting. But in my experience and interpretation new spells come from substantial sources. Some spells are found in books or scrolls, some are taught from other wizards. Some can be developed by mimicking what you see other casters do, ie. by a special feat. Some spells are researched over time using available resources. But getting the spells and keeping the spells is not at all guaranteed.
The Dragonlance setting has made spell casting progression a little more difficult unless you want to join the society for (Responsible casting) for lack of a better terms. Heck, the history they came up with actually makes sense on a couple of levels, and it is easy to digest.
However, if you are looking for more reference material on how it works, there is no shortage. I see about 8-12 different Youtubes which are pretty spot on. Then the Dragonlance fandom sites have great story lines to read for more explanations. A couple of fun search terms would be the city of "Istar", "KingpriestBeldinas", "Tower of Wayreth", "Swordsheath Scroll", Cataclysm, Disks of Mishakal, and the "The Lost Battles" if you want to know why the Mages of High Sorcery has evolved to how they work today.
I don't think you fully understand the advancement process of wizards or sorcerers and several other casting classes. Sure as a DM you can simply say sure you gained levels, you automatically know any new spells you are capable of casting. But in my experience and interpretation new spells come from substantial sources. Some spells are found in books or scrolls, some are taught from other wizards. Some can be developed by mimicking what you see other casters do, ie. by a special feat. Some spells are researched over time using available resources. But getting the spells and keeping the spells is not at all guaranteed.
The Dragonlance setting has made spell casting progression a little more difficult unless you want to join the society for (Responsible casting) for lack of a better terms.
I agree with you wholeheartedly, Prophet, but FossMaNo1 is right that spell gain is automatic at level up by RAW in D&D5, and suggesting that it not be is really going to piss off some wizard players, as they'd be the only class with a class ability that isn't automatically gained. At the moment, the ability to learn extra spells is a wizard perk.
Lots of folks complain loudly about how casters have too much utility in D&D5, but they had way less utility when they had to learn their spells outside of leveling up and had to source and track individual material spell components, among other rules that have been left on the cutting room floor. It's almost as though, when you remove game design elements because they are unpopular, it has unintended consequences to game balance. Or something. :)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
J Great Wyrm Moonstone Dungeon Master
The time of the ORC has come. No OGL without irrevocability; no OGL with 'authorized version' language. #openDND
Practice, practice, practice • Respect the rules; don't memorize them • Be merciless, not cruel • Don't let the dice run the game for you
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I am a fan of Dragonlance, but I have never been a part of a game set in the world (a fan of the novels). In the world, what is the reasoning for all arcane magic users being forced to become members of the Mages of High Sorcery? Are there benefits to being a member, or is it mere intimidation? What if someone resists or refuses? I've been through the Dragonlance Wiki, but I'm not finding much info on this topic. Is there any other reading I can do?
C. Foster Payne
"If you get to thinkin' you're a person of some influence, try orderin' somebody else's dog around."
Heya,
If you are not part of the Mages of High Sorcery you are pretty much a hedge mage. You would find it hard to advance in your magical skills and acquire any resources. Think of it almost as being in a fraternity like the Masons, the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn or such...the ability to network, wheel and deal behind the scenes and have large libraries/resources at your disposal. Also, you have been tested and the world knows you have rules to follow and are not so much a loose cannon. I don't think they actively hunt down users of magic that aren't part of the organization other than trying to get them to go about the "proper" way.
And I get this... but it's not like a character can be stopped from advancing character levels in their class. I mean, sorcerers just gain power as they level. Wizards I suppose I could limit... not allow them get automatic spells as they level. Just seems like a jerk move to me. I'm just having issues wrapping my mind around how to deal with an arcane spellcaster in my game who doesn't want to be "tied" to the Towers of High Sorcery.
C. Foster Payne
"If you get to thinkin' you're a person of some influence, try orderin' somebody else's dog around."
There absolutely was institutional intimidation against and persecution of non-WoHS mages in previous editions. In previous official material, these mages were specifically called 'renegades.' Note that according to previous fiction describing the War of the Lance, all mages were mistrusted and even hated by the common folk in this era, due to their perceived inaction during the Cataclysm, and the Towers of High Sorcery were abandoned except for Wayreth, which was hidden from all non-wizards.
If I remember correctly, advancement to a certain unspecified low level was unmonitored, but wizards who failed to take their test beyond a certain point in their studies were absolutely identified, located, and given a hard choice. Dragonlance Adventures (1987) refers to renegade wizards as being "considered by all orders to be a menace to the balance of magic... a threat that either must be neutralized or eliminated."
The book goes on in some detail describing each order's approach to dealing with renegades, but with the exception of a reluctance on the part of the White Robes to destroy renegades, and a tendency of Black Robes to attempt to sway any renegade toward evil, they all look more or less the same: capture and bring before the Conclave, or destroy.
Renegade wizards brought before the Conclave who refuse to take the Test and join an order were "cast out from the realms of Krynn and the circles of the world." (Whatever that means!)
An interesting aside: in AD&D1 and 2, Wizards of High Sorcery had a different advancement track than vanilla PHB wizards, and renegade wizards continued to use the PHB track. The rules were explicit that all wizards coming to Krynn from other settings were renegades by default.
J
Great Wyrm Moonstone Dungeon Master
The time of the ORC has come. No OGL without irrevocability; no OGL with 'authorized version' language. #openDND
Practice, practice, practice • Respect the rules; don't memorize them • Be merciless, not cruel • Don't let the dice run the game for you
I don't think you fully understand the advancement process of wizards or sorcerers and several other casting classes. Sure as a DM you can simply say sure you gained levels, you automatically know any new spells you are capable of casting. But in my experience and interpretation new spells come from substantial sources. Some spells are found in books or scrolls, some are taught from other wizards. Some can be developed by mimicking what you see other casters do, ie. by a special feat. Some spells are researched over time using available resources. But getting the spells and keeping the spells is not at all guaranteed.
The Dragonlance setting has made spell casting progression a little more difficult unless you want to join the society for (Responsible casting) for lack of a better terms. Heck, the history they came up with actually makes sense on a couple of levels, and it is easy to digest.
However, if you are looking for more reference material on how it works, there is no shortage. I see about 8-12 different Youtubes which are pretty spot on. Then the Dragonlance fandom sites have great story lines to read for more explanations. A couple of fun search terms would be the city of "Istar", "Kingpriest Beldinas", "Tower of Wayreth", "Swordsheath Scroll", Cataclysm, Disks of Mishakal, and the "The Lost Battles" if you want to know why the Mages of High Sorcery has evolved to how they work today.
This is a rather lengthy interview about "The Test" given by fan fiction writers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndPY_JVK5hQ
I am not sure what my Spirit Animal is. But whatever that thing is, I am pretty sure it has rabies!
I agree with you wholeheartedly, Prophet, but FossMaNo1 is right that spell gain is automatic at level up by RAW in D&D5, and suggesting that it not be is really going to piss off some wizard players, as they'd be the only class with a class ability that isn't automatically gained. At the moment, the ability to learn extra spells is a wizard perk.
Lots of folks complain loudly about how casters have too much utility in D&D5, but they had way less utility when they had to learn their spells outside of leveling up and had to source and track individual material spell components, among other rules that have been left on the cutting room floor. It's almost as though, when you remove game design elements because they are unpopular, it has unintended consequences to game balance. Or something. :)
J
Great Wyrm Moonstone Dungeon Master
The time of the ORC has come. No OGL without irrevocability; no OGL with 'authorized version' language. #openDND
Practice, practice, practice • Respect the rules; don't memorize them • Be merciless, not cruel • Don't let the dice run the game for you