As the title says, would it make sense for a Oath of the Ancients Paladin to retire the adventure life and go for the rest of his life as a civilian living in a farm? I guess that would not make him an Oathbreaker right? I searched the players handbook for info but I could not find anything too in depth about that matter.
paladin who breaks his or her sacred oaths to pursue some dark ambition or serve an evil power.
Retiring is nothing like those.
AFAIK, there's no official word on this, and so it's up to the player and DM.
But it really doesn't make sense. Is a paladin obligated to always be paladining, actively seeking out evil (or whatever) with never a rest? That's a good way to run out of paladins. (You could run it that way, but your paladins would end up being deeply off-putting zealots who all die young.)
Narratively, it makes more sense for paladins to be able to retire, but they'd probably never completely retire. When evil makes itself known, or war comes to the town, the old shopkeeper pulls his armor out of the trunk and gets to smiting again, griping all the time that he's too old for this.
If you're having trouble reconciling a paladin's oath with retirement, you could always give the paladin a good reason to retire from adventuring
For example, I'm playing a character right now who's adopted dad is a "retired" paladin. A big part of the character's backstory is that the paladin's party rescued him as a child from a cult, and the paladin felt obligated to raise this orphan they'd saved (as well as try to figure out why the cult thought the kid was so important...) So he was still in some respect honoring his oath; the nature of the mission just changed
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
If, as a farmer, the paladin is nurturing life and natural beauty, while feeding and building hope in their local community, they’re essentially fulfilling their oath by other means.
Paladining is like riding a bicycle. You never forget how. So even if you become a drunken vagrant for a halfdozen years, once you again hear the call, clean up and pick up sword and shield once more, you're ready to go paladining full force.
Basically, there's nothing in the rules to say this - or any - class goes away, no matter what you do. You break your oath by going against your vows, not by giving a rest for awhile. But sure, you might need to spend a night of prayer, or even seek atonement from another.
Then, you're ready to smite in the name of holiness once more.
Or at least, that's my take.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Paladining is like riding a bicycle. You never forget how. So even if you become a drunken vagrant for a halfdozen years, once you again hear the call, clean up and pick up sword and shield once more, you're ready to go paladining full force.
Basically, there's nothing in the rules to say this - or any - class goes away, no matter what you do. You break your oath by going against your vows, not by giving a rest for awhile. But sure, you might need to spend a night of prayer, or even seek atonement from another.
Then, you're ready to smite in the name of holiness once more.
Or at least, that's my take.
To expand on this a little, the main takeaway imo is there's a difference between letting your oath lapse and willfully breaking it and turning to fiendish powers, particularly for the less targeted ones. It's like the difference between Obi-wan and Anakin: one simply stopped being a Jedi and yet was still able to dust off the lightsaber and remained in touch with the Light Side, whereas the other went full Sith. Now, this is just in general; if an Oath of Vengeance paladin full-on calls off their vendetta, it could be a fair call that even if something drives them to take their sword down from the wall again later their deity still might not let them take the Oath again. But, given that most Oaths would be made with Good or LN deities, it's fair to say they'll let someone take the equivalent of an honorable discharge after a while. One thing I've seen in some of the books is that older paladins transition to administrative type roles in their order rather than riding out to smite evil personally.
To expand on this a little, the main takeaway imo is there's a difference between letting your oath lapse and willfully breaking it and turning to fiendish powers, particularly for the less targeted ones. It's like the difference between Obi-wan and Anakin: one simply stopped being a Jedi and yet was still able to dust off the lightsaber and remained in touch with the Light Side, whereas the other went full Sith. Now, this is just in general; if an Oath of Vengeance paladin full-on calls off their vendetta, it could be a fair call that even if something drives them to take their sword down from the wall again later their deity still might not let them take the Oath again. But, given that most Oaths would be made with Good or LN deities, it's fair to say they'll let someone take the equivalent of an honorable discharge after a while. One thing I've seen in some of the books is that older paladins transition to administrative type roles in their order rather than riding out to smite evil personally.
The Obi-wan/Anakin example is pure gold - well put.
On the Oath of Vengeance, however, I disagree. Here's how I see it: Angry god looks down, and sees angry guy. Makes him his paladin. Paladin has a good, long, raging rampage - but eventually runs out of steam. Settles down, buys a farm, raises a family. Angry god shrugs his shoulders (this is a guy angry god, but could just as easily be a girl angry god). 'It was fun while it lasted' - ponders the angry god.
But the anger never really goes away. It smolders and gnaws, it's an ache inside, and in his later years, angry guy picks up the sword again. Who knows, something ticks him off. Angry god goes 'YES! - off you go again, my faithful'. Full powers restored, angry guy goes out in a blaze of glory. The end =)
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
I wasn't saying Vengeance could only be a one-off, but it's a legit storytelling call for a deity to expect commitment to an Oath of Vengeance rather than letting someone just take a break and come back.
I wasn't saying Vengeance could only be a one-off, but it's a legit storytelling call for a deity to expect commitment to an Oath of Vengeance rather than letting someone just take a break and come back.
Sure ... I was just trying to be funny =)
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
One point - if the vengeance Paladin succeeeds in his vengeance there is no reason for them not to “retire”. a second point - while we don’t normally think of paladins as intel gatherers there is actually no reason one couldn’t “retire” and become an observer in a place of likely problems for an extended time.
people change as they have experiences. Who can't tire of the life they had been leading? IRL some people pledge an oath and follow through on it for years, until they change and decide not to anymore. Some people who went o church for years, stop going.
I can't imagine why any PC class can't call it quits and stop doing all of whatever that was. It's the person not the class that makes those choices.
Though i have to admit, it could depend on where they get their power from. A Patron that grants power may not accept resignations letters. ;)
As the title says, would it make sense for a Oath of the Ancients Paladin to retire the adventure life and go for the rest of his life as a civilian living in a farm? I guess that would not make him an Oathbreaker right? I searched the players handbook for info but I could not find anything too in depth about that matter.
It definitely wouldn't make them an oathbreaker:
Retiring is nothing like those.
AFAIK, there's no official word on this, and so it's up to the player and DM.
But it really doesn't make sense. Is a paladin obligated to always be paladining, actively seeking out evil (or whatever) with never a rest? That's a good way to run out of paladins. (You could run it that way, but your paladins would end up being deeply off-putting zealots who all die young.)
Narratively, it makes more sense for paladins to be able to retire, but they'd probably never completely retire. When evil makes itself known, or war comes to the town, the old shopkeeper pulls his armor out of the trunk and gets to smiting again, griping all the time that he's too old for this.
If you're having trouble reconciling a paladin's oath with retirement, you could always give the paladin a good reason to retire from adventuring
For example, I'm playing a character right now who's adopted dad is a "retired" paladin. A big part of the character's backstory is that the paladin's party rescued him as a child from a cult, and the paladin felt obligated to raise this orphan they'd saved (as well as try to figure out why the cult thought the kid was so important...) So he was still in some respect honoring his oath; the nature of the mission just changed
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
If, as a farmer, the paladin is nurturing life and natural beauty, while feeding and building hope in their local community, they’re essentially fulfilling their oath by other means.
Paladining is like riding a bicycle. You never forget how. So even if you become a drunken vagrant for a halfdozen years, once you again hear the call, clean up and pick up sword and shield once more, you're ready to go paladining full force.
Basically, there's nothing in the rules to say this - or any - class goes away, no matter what you do. You break your oath by going against your vows, not by giving a rest for awhile. But sure, you might need to spend a night of prayer, or even seek atonement from another.
Then, you're ready to smite in the name of holiness once more.
Or at least, that's my take.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Thanks everyone for the swift and thoughtful responses. It actually clarified things for me! All the best!
To expand on this a little, the main takeaway imo is there's a difference between letting your oath lapse and willfully breaking it and turning to fiendish powers, particularly for the less targeted ones. It's like the difference between Obi-wan and Anakin: one simply stopped being a Jedi and yet was still able to dust off the lightsaber and remained in touch with the Light Side, whereas the other went full Sith. Now, this is just in general; if an Oath of Vengeance paladin full-on calls off their vendetta, it could be a fair call that even if something drives them to take their sword down from the wall again later their deity still might not let them take the Oath again. But, given that most Oaths would be made with Good or LN deities, it's fair to say they'll let someone take the equivalent of an honorable discharge after a while. One thing I've seen in some of the books is that older paladins transition to administrative type roles in their order rather than riding out to smite evil personally.
The Obi-wan/Anakin example is pure gold - well put.
On the Oath of Vengeance, however, I disagree. Here's how I see it: Angry god looks down, and sees angry guy. Makes him his paladin. Paladin has a good, long, raging rampage - but eventually runs out of steam. Settles down, buys a farm, raises a family. Angry god shrugs his shoulders (this is a guy angry god, but could just as easily be a girl angry god). 'It was fun while it lasted' - ponders the angry god.
But the anger never really goes away. It smolders and gnaws, it's an ache inside, and in his later years, angry guy picks up the sword again. Who knows, something ticks him off. Angry god goes 'YES! - off you go again, my faithful'. Full powers restored, angry guy goes out in a blaze of glory. The end =)
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
I wasn't saying Vengeance could only be a one-off, but it's a legit storytelling call for a deity to expect commitment to an Oath of Vengeance rather than letting someone just take a break and come back.
Sure ... I was just trying to be funny =)
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
One point - if the vengeance Paladin succeeeds in his vengeance there is no reason for them not to “retire”.
a second point - while we don’t normally think of paladins as intel gatherers there is actually no reason one couldn’t “retire” and become an observer in a place of likely problems for an extended time.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
people change as they have experiences. Who can't tire of the life they had been leading?
IRL some people pledge an oath and follow through on it for years, until they change and decide not to anymore. Some people who went o church for years, stop going.
I can't imagine why any PC class can't call it quits and stop doing all of whatever that was. It's the person not the class that makes those choices.
Though i have to admit, it could depend on where they get their power from. A Patron that grants power may not accept resignations letters. ;)
I would recommend reading the Stromlight Archive book series. The main characters are basically paladins and it explores this idea.