I'm really used to picking my class based on what my party needs but the one I'm joining is fairly well rounded (a paladin, a rogue, a healer/support bard, and a scribe wizard). I was hoping I could get some advice on classes that might fill any holes left. I got lucky with my rolls (18, 16, 15, 12, 8, 7) so pretty much anything is an option.
Sorry if this isn't the right place for the question, I can't see a better place or clear rules about it.
The gaps, as they are, could be neatly filled by a cleric or ranger. Both of these classes have loads of support features which would help any group. (IMHO).
Or an additional front liner, barb or fighter? Although both ranger and cleric could also fill those roles, with the right sub class.
First, you should consider what you are going to enjoy playing and developing, do you want the complexity of a magic user; do you enjoy being a skills monkey; do you want to be a face of the party etc etc.
Is the Rogue a ranged or melee fighter? If they are ranged I could see you playing another melee character along side the Paladin. So a Fighter or Barbarian would work. Some Clerics can also be melee fighter and have a great range of offensive and support spells that could help the Bard and Wizard not need to blow through their resources as quickly. Same with Druids, especially Moon Druids.
If the Rogue is a melee fighter, you could instead go with a ranged Fighter or a Ranger.
Looking at it from another angle, you could try to fill in the role of a Wisdom character as the other classes have stats they tend to value more over wisdom with maybe the exception of the Rogue (depending on subclass). A Cleric, Druid, or Ranger would give you the options to pick up those wisdom skills like Perception, Insight, and Survival if they would be important to the campaign.
Edit: I do agree with imalius though, what is important is to play what you want and with a fairly balanced party you have the opportunity to play almost anything and the party would be alright. Though I also get wanting to play to the party as it's something I often do.
Thanks for the advice. I will definitely look over the cleric and ranger subclasses. Maybe it's just me but martial classes have seemed a bit boring but I might look other them too, especially the more complex ones like battle master.
Me playing cleric is kind of a meme in my groups because it's what I pick when I need to play support so it might be fun to play a more damage/control focused one.
Edit: The rogue is melee based so yeah me going a melee class might be a bit excessive. Trying out druid might be a lot of fun, I've never played a nature based class and he unique spells that get are cool.
I was originally planning to go artillerist artificer but figured it would overlap a lot with the wizard.
Do you multi-class, as there's lots of options to consider if you go down the wisdom route. Stick the 18 into Wisdom and the 16 in dex and you can go Ranger Druid for some great options and versatility (probably strength and charisma are the dump stats?)
Thanks for the tip. Probably shouldn't be looking ahead but survival is always a solid pick.
Thanks for the help, I'm so used to filling in that I've never had free reign to pick a class. Have a lot of ideas but I'm mainly worried about picking something that just ends up doing the same thing every turn.
The Paladin is likely investing in Strength and Charisma, not Constitution, so they may be less of a tank than you'd think even if they're wearing Plate. The Paladin, the Rogue, and the Wizard will be doing big damage already. What you need is someone that you can throw into the Dragon's face and get chewed on for a few rounds.
A chunky barbarian, possibly an Ancestral Guardian, Zealot, or Totem Warrior (bear) subclass, would be a good fit. Start with Str 17, Dex 14, Con 16 and wear Medium Armor with a Shield at first (AC 18 or 19) while wielding a d8 versatile weapon. Get Str to 20 by 8 (a +1 Str feat, like Slasher, and a +2 Str ASI). Then pump Con to 20 with your next two ASI at 12 and 16 (can take off your Medium Armor now). At 19 take Tough, or a vanity feat like Sentinel, or Polearm Master if you're willing to drop down to a d6 Quarterstaff in exchange for a Bonus Action d4 attack every round (worth it), or Skill Expert or Resilient (+1 Wis). At 20 you'll have an AC of 21 with a Shield, or 19 without if you want to use your weapon in d10/d8 mode instead of d8/d6.
Leaving the Dex at 14 gives you a few points to start with a 11 Wisdom. Barbarian variant options from Tasha's let you pick up some bonus skills like Survival. It'll be a good fit.
I'd probably lean into a sturdy frontliner, a Fighter or a Barbarian. Yes, it's possible the Paladin could act as a decent tank, but if they're the only frontliner they're likely gonna get ganged up on. Playing a melee attacker means you can flank with the Paladin, and be someone else who can stand next to the bad guys so the Rogue can use Sneak Attack :) With Tasha's out now, both the Fighter and Barbarian have a pretty wide variety of subclass options, so you'll likely find something interesting. When it comes to Fighters I've played the Battlemaster, Cavalier and Rune Knight and I've loved them all. I've only played one Barbarian so far, but that Bear Totem is pretty freakin' sweet :)
If you want less Brute Squad and more Striker, a melee Ranger or a Monk would also be viable options. Between the two I'd probably go Ranger, but that's just my personal taste. Honestly, if you're joining a balanced party, just play something that looks like fun :)
A Battle Smith is a perfect fit for every role as well, so add that to the list.
Need more tankiness in the group? The Battle Smith can reach the AC 20+ range no problem, has huge saving throw bonuses across the board, a decent d8 hit die, and the single-attribute dependency to leave Dex at 14 and get around to boosting Con from 16 up to 20 in T3 (or, leave it and patch it higher with an infusion in the late game)
Need more control? The Battle Smith has a robust selection of wizard-type spells, with the flexibility you crave from preparation casters to shift that up day to day. And their Steel Defender can block lanes and otherwise assist with protecting vulnerable members or assisting rogues.
Need more damage? Again, the Battle Smith is essentially a Wizard, with even better spell slots! Your Spell Storing Item will make Heat Metal a breeze to cast, either for you without slots, or even loaned out to a friend! And the Rend from your pet every round is a nice way to use a Bonus Action to get damage on the board.
Need more party support? Robust spell selection, loaning out infused items, or abilities like Flash of Genius have you covered. Heck, you can even cast Cure Wounds!
Need more dungeoneering? There are a multitude of niche infusions to pick from that can help you while you spelunk, Tool Expertise and Flash of Genius make you great with Tools, and The Right Tool for the Job ensures you'll never find yourself without a handy set of Cobbler's Tools when the DM surprises you with a shoe-based puzzle! And don't forget, that Steel Defender is a much more capable disposable scout than a Familiar ever was, boasting a Perception of +4-12, reasonable strength, and possibly even thumbs!!!
Battle Smiths have no right to be good at absolutely every single party role while needing nothing other than Int (and really, they can craft themselves a Headband of Intellect, so at high levels maybe not even that???), but hey, there they are.
Thanks for the help everyone. My not so short list at the moment is Battlemaster, Light Cleric, Battle Smith, Star Druid, and either Totem or Beast Barbarian. They all seem annoyingly viable. Will probably stick with something melee focused though.
Thank you so much for all the detailed posts folks, certainly gave me a lot of subclasses to consider. I've only ever played casters before so I think I'm going to go purely martial this time. Fairly set on Battle Master since it seems like it will give me a lot of customisation and different actions and the lack of that is one thing that's made me stick with casters.
Edit: I am a bitt worried about lacking AoE which was pushing me toward cleric but oh well we'll see how it goes lol.
I'm really used to picking my class based on what my party needs but the one I'm joining is fairly well rounded (a paladin, a rogue, a healer/support bard, and a scribe wizard). I was hoping I could get some advice on classes that might fill any holes left. I got lucky with my rolls (18, 16, 15, 12, 8, 7) so pretty much anything is an option.
Sorry if this isn't the right place for the question, I can't see a better place or clear rules about it.
What level are you joining at?
2nd, I've only missed a few sessions.
The gaps, as they are, could be neatly filled by a cleric or ranger. Both of these classes have loads of support features which would help any group. (IMHO).
Or an additional front liner, barb or fighter? Although both ranger and cleric could also fill those roles, with the right sub class.
First, you should consider what you are going to enjoy playing and developing, do you want the complexity of a magic user; do you enjoy being a skills monkey; do you want to be a face of the party etc etc.
The primary goal is for you to enjoy yourself 😊
Is the Rogue a ranged or melee fighter? If they are ranged I could see you playing another melee character along side the Paladin. So a Fighter or Barbarian would work. Some Clerics can also be melee fighter and have a great range of offensive and support spells that could help the Bard and Wizard not need to blow through their resources as quickly. Same with Druids, especially Moon Druids.
If the Rogue is a melee fighter, you could instead go with a ranged Fighter or a Ranger.
Looking at it from another angle, you could try to fill in the role of a Wisdom character as the other classes have stats they tend to value more over wisdom with maybe the exception of the Rogue (depending on subclass). A Cleric, Druid, or Ranger would give you the options to pick up those wisdom skills like Perception, Insight, and Survival if they would be important to the campaign.
Edit: I do agree with imalius though, what is important is to play what you want and with a fairly balanced party you have the opportunity to play almost anything and the party would be alright. Though I also get wanting to play to the party as it's something I often do.
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
Characters for Tenebris Sine Fine
RoughCoronet's Greater Wills
Thanks for the advice. I will definitely look over the cleric and ranger subclasses. Maybe it's just me but martial classes have seemed a bit boring but I might look other them too, especially the more complex ones like battle master.
Me playing cleric is kind of a meme in my groups because it's what I pick when I need to play support so it might be fun to play a more damage/control focused one.
Edit: The rogue is melee based so yeah me going a melee class might be a bit excessive. Trying out druid might be a lot of fun, I've never played a nature based class and he unique spells that get are cool.
I was originally planning to go artillerist artificer but figured it would overlap a lot with the wizard.
Do you multi-class, as there's lots of options to consider if you go down the wisdom route. Stick the 18 into Wisdom and the 16 in dex and you can go Ranger Druid for some great options and versatility (probably strength and charisma are the dump stats?)
Circle of stars is speaking to me, might just be nostalgia for my WoW balance druid lol.
The campaign is Tyranny of Dragons btw, not sure if there's class that stands out in those adventures.
I'd suggest making sure one of you has survival as a skill...
Thanks for the tip. Probably shouldn't be looking ahead but survival is always a solid pick.
Thanks for the help, I'm so used to filling in that I've never had free reign to pick a class. Have a lot of ideas but I'm mainly worried about picking something that just ends up doing the same thing every turn.
let us know what you go with, please :)
The Paladin is likely investing in Strength and Charisma, not Constitution, so they may be less of a tank than you'd think even if they're wearing Plate. The Paladin, the Rogue, and the Wizard will be doing big damage already. What you need is someone that you can throw into the Dragon's face and get chewed on for a few rounds.
A chunky barbarian, possibly an Ancestral Guardian, Zealot, or Totem Warrior (bear) subclass, would be a good fit. Start with Str 17, Dex 14, Con 16 and wear Medium Armor with a Shield at first (AC 18 or 19) while wielding a d8 versatile weapon. Get Str to 20 by 8 (a +1 Str feat, like Slasher, and a +2 Str ASI). Then pump Con to 20 with your next two ASI at 12 and 16 (can take off your Medium Armor now). At 19 take Tough, or a vanity feat like Sentinel, or Polearm Master if you're willing to drop down to a d6 Quarterstaff in exchange for a Bonus Action d4 attack every round (worth it), or Skill Expert or Resilient (+1 Wis). At 20 you'll have an AC of 21 with a Shield, or 19 without if you want to use your weapon in d10/d8 mode instead of d8/d6.
Leaving the Dex at 14 gives you a few points to start with a 11 Wisdom. Barbarian variant options from Tasha's let you pick up some bonus skills like Survival. It'll be a good fit.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
I'd probably lean into a sturdy frontliner, a Fighter or a Barbarian. Yes, it's possible the Paladin could act as a decent tank, but if they're the only frontliner they're likely gonna get ganged up on. Playing a melee attacker means you can flank with the Paladin, and be someone else who can stand next to the bad guys so the Rogue can use Sneak Attack :) With Tasha's out now, both the Fighter and Barbarian have a pretty wide variety of subclass options, so you'll likely find something interesting. When it comes to Fighters I've played the Battlemaster, Cavalier and Rune Knight and I've loved them all. I've only played one Barbarian so far, but that Bear Totem is pretty freakin' sweet :)
If you want less Brute Squad and more Striker, a melee Ranger or a Monk would also be viable options. Between the two I'd probably go Ranger, but that's just my personal taste. Honestly, if you're joining a balanced party, just play something that looks like fun :)
Honestly you have all the bases covered already. You could really do whatever you want.
Stars druid is wicked fun!
Artillerist would let you do ranged damage and healing support
EK is naturally a fantastic defensive tank.
A Battle Smith is a perfect fit for every role as well, so add that to the list.
Need more tankiness in the group? The Battle Smith can reach the AC 20+ range no problem, has huge saving throw bonuses across the board, a decent d8 hit die, and the single-attribute dependency to leave Dex at 14 and get around to boosting Con from 16 up to 20 in T3 (or, leave it and patch it higher with an infusion in the late game)
Need more control? The Battle Smith has a robust selection of wizard-type spells, with the flexibility you crave from preparation casters to shift that up day to day. And their Steel Defender can block lanes and otherwise assist with protecting vulnerable members or assisting rogues.
Need more damage? Again, the Battle Smith is essentially a Wizard, with even better spell slots! Your Spell Storing Item will make Heat Metal a breeze to cast, either for you without slots, or even loaned out to a friend! And the Rend from your pet every round is a nice way to use a Bonus Action to get damage on the board.
Need more party support? Robust spell selection, loaning out infused items, or abilities like Flash of Genius have you covered. Heck, you can even cast Cure Wounds!
Need more dungeoneering? There are a multitude of niche infusions to pick from that can help you while you spelunk, Tool Expertise and Flash of Genius make you great with Tools, and The Right Tool for the Job ensures you'll never find yourself without a handy set of Cobbler's Tools when the DM surprises you with a shoe-based puzzle! And don't forget, that Steel Defender is a much more capable disposable scout than a Familiar ever was, boasting a Perception of +4-12, reasonable strength, and possibly even thumbs!!!
Battle Smiths have no right to be good at absolutely every single party role while needing nothing other than Int (and really, they can craft themselves a Headband of Intellect, so at high levels maybe not even that???), but hey, there they are.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Thanks for the help everyone. My not so short list at the moment is Battlemaster, Light Cleric, Battle Smith, Star Druid, and either Totem or Beast Barbarian. They all seem annoyingly viable. Will probably stick with something melee focused though.
Thank you so much for all the detailed posts folks, certainly gave me a lot of subclasses to consider. I've only ever played casters before so I think I'm going to go purely martial this time. Fairly set on Battle Master since it seems like it will give me a lot of customisation and different actions and the lack of that is one thing that's made me stick with casters.
Edit: I am a bitt worried about lacking AoE which was pushing me toward cleric but oh well we'll see how it goes lol.
"Edit: I am a bit worried about lacking AoE which was pushing me toward cleric but oh well we'll see how it goes lol."
Ranger would give you martial, and AoE, but Battle Master is a solid choice with interesting aspects :)