Greetings, before I say my question I warn you that I'm amateur in D&D. I would like to ask which type of class or classes is right for me when choosing. For example, I would like to have at my disposal a heavy weapon, for example a two-handed weapon, and also wield darkness and lightning spells in addition.
I would suggest being a fighter with the eldritch knight subclass for those purposes. I'll tell you why:
In order to have a heavy weapon, you must have proficiency in all martial weapons or be a hobgoblin, but so as not to limit you on your race the only other way is a martial class.
Rangers are mostly a ranged class, barbarians can't use darkness and lightning magic, and paladins don't have darkness magic nor do they have much of a selection of lightning magic.
Eldritch knights can cast lightning lure as a cantrip which is great for a martial class and can eventually cast darkness when they reach 7th level. Alternatively, you could be a tiefling or drow to cast it when you reach 5th level.
You aren't limited to the spells I've listed, but that's what I'm thinking of based on your description of your character concept. For instance, you could take shocking grasp instead of lightning lure (would not recommend as it's a melee cantrip and you're a martial class) or choose a different kind of darkness.
To cast darkness at 3rd level as an alternative you could be a war cleric or hexblade warlock but you don't get many lightning spells as a cleric and many strings are attached to being a warlock
If you’re willing to give up the darkness, the Path of the Storm Herald barbarian is thematically what you’re looking for and would be tons of fun to play.
You can add on the darkness by taking a feat or a race. Or at least I think you can.
Greetings, before I say my question I warn you that I'm amateur in D&D. I would like to ask which type of class or classes is right for me when choosing. For example, I would like to have at my disposal a heavy weapon, for example a two-handed weapon, and also wield darkness and lightning spells in addition.
There are many ways to do this, but an example potentially interesting way is a Hexblade Pact of the Blade Warlock with the invocations Devil's Sight and Improved Pact Weapon, and the spells Lightning Lure and Darkness.
Notes: Edited to remove reference to offensive username.
Do you want to be a martial fighter who can use a buit of magic or a spell caster who can wield a weapon?
As others have said for a martial fighter who knows some magic an Eldritch Knight is probably the best option. Bear in mind than Darkness is a 2nd level spell and Eldritch knights don't get access to that until level 7 which is a long way into most campaigns.
Tempest Clericas and Storm Herald Barbariansare good options for melee attacks with lightning theme but do not give access to darkness.
If you must have both (before level 7) than the main option is a hexblade warlock. Speak to your DM before choosing a warlock you have made a pact with a creature from the Shadowfell and they may expect you to fulfill your side of the bargain. As a warlock you will be able to cast darkness at level 3 and choose an invocation that allows you to see though magical darkness (not an option with Eldritch knight). The big issue with this option (other than the pact) is it relies on a lot of attributes. Your weapon attacks use strength, your spells need high charisma, as a melee fighter you need high con and as you will be using medium armor you really want your dex to be at least 14. The hex warrier feature gets round this allowing you to attack with a weapon using your charisma as the modifier but this does not work for two handed weapons (though you can use a versatile weapon such as a long sword with two hands in this way.
I might also have the option of an oath breaker paladin, they can cast darkness (at level 5) (but not see through it). They do not have access to lightning spells but you might be able to flavor radiant damage to the effect you are after. This is very much up to the DM, the oath breaker paladin is designed as a way in which a DM can deal with a paladin that breaks their oath which is why it is in the dungeaon masters guide,, taking oath breaker as your "oath " at level 3 is essentially saying you spend two levels preparing to commit yourself to an oath which is powerful enough to be the source of your magic and you decide to break it before you even start. Many DMs will not allow this but it may be an option for you.
Eldritch Knight, as much as it seems like the most "basic" version of this concept, is probably mechanically both the weakest and the hardest to understand. Doesn't have its own easily browsable spell list (you must see the Wizard list, filter by spell schools, except for at certain levels you can take spells from any school), doesn't really get any features that interact with spellcasting until middle and high tiers, and even then, mixes spells and attacks in a way that is a little counterintuitive (can cast a spell and then attack, but not attack and then cast a spell). I would argue that a Wizard/Fighter multiclass is way easier for a new player to understand than an Eldritch Knight is, and is far easier to build with middling or low Intelligence, as weird as that seems.
I think that any ranger (not Beast Master though) or any of the heavy weapon+martial clerics would be my recommendation.
Hexblade Warlock with the Pact of the Blade or Tempest Cleric would be the two that I think fit best what you want to do. Both of them are full spell casters. Eldritch Knight is good if you want to mainly focus on weapon attacks and have relatively minor spell casting ability.
Obviously, Darkness fits very well. Spirit Shroud and Shadow of Moil are a couple of other Warlock spells that fit nicely with the darkness theme. Tempest Cleric adds some nice Thunder and Lightning type spells if you're more interested in that type of magic.
Eldritch Knight, as much as it seems like the most "basic" version of this concept, is probably mechanically both the weakest and the hardest to understand. Doesn't have its own easily browsable spell list (you must see the Wizard list, filter by spell schools, except for at certain levels you can take spells from any school), doesn't really get any features that interact with spellcasting until middle and high tiers, and even then, mixes spells and attacks in a way that is a little counterintuitive (can cast a spell and then attack, but not attack and then cast a spell). I would argue that a Wizard/Fighter multiclass is way easier for a new player to understand than an Eldritch Knight is, and is far easier to build with middling or low Intelligence, as weird as that seems.
I think that any ranger (not Beast Master though) or any of the heavy weapon+martial clerics would be my recommendation.
An Eldritch Knight is best as a tank. Unfortunately, the class requires Warcaster feat to be useable, since Shield is one of your most important spells.
Essentially an effective EK only really uses Protection from Evil and Good , Shield , Absorb Elements and Booming Blade with Ray of Frost as a ranged attack cantrip. The class never materialises into the kind of fighter/mage that most people who want to play it seem to envisage it as. It is a class that tanks really well in quite a different way to a barbarian, with lots of reactions and fun choices to make. But it's not a battle mage.
The best option for the OP would probably be to multiclass as Fighter/Sorcerer.
Eldritch Knight. Two handed Great Weapon Master, Plate armor, Defensive style, and Shield. Done and done. For pure giggles, make a Half Orc; even when they die they don’t really die 😁
If you ever end up having no use for your Bonus Action, you can also drop your weapon and make your opponent think they can take it away from you. On your turn, BA summon it back to you. 😂
RE: above post
You don’t need Warcaster if you are only using a two handed weapon. Two handed weapons DONT require two hands to hold them, only to swing them.
I think what EKS SHOULD HAVE been, is a class with a mechanic centered around storing spells in your weapon and then triggering them on hits, with maybe some other features giving them better concentration rolls to keep up buffs on themselves. Or maybe, the Wizard’s Warmage subclass should have been the Fighter EK subclass, with some minor tweaks to better empower weapon attacks? Instead, they’re about... Booming Blade, kind of? EKs and Arcane Archers are just incredibly disappointing, and worse at their theme than other more complicated classes or multiclass builds are, which is a shame.
I think what EKS SHOULD HAVE been, is a class with a mechanic centered around storing spells in your weapon and then triggering them on hits, with maybe some other features giving them better concentration rolls to keep up buffs on themselves. Or maybe, the Wizard’s Warmage subclass should have been the Fighter EK subclass, with some minor tweaks to better empower weapon attacks? Instead, they’re about... Booming Blade, kind of? EKs and Arcane Archers are just incredibly disappointing, and worse at their theme than other more complicated classes or multiclass builds are, which is a shame.
EKs are great at higher levels, and are okay at getting other classes spells like Shield with a 3 dip (currently playing a 6 Grave/3 EK with 28AC after Shield) but I do agree they exist in a weird place unless you take em all the way.
Ive noticed among a lot of players to knee jerk to BB, but at higher levels with Action Surge an EK can hit 3-4 enemies (hopefully using GWM), Action Surge, and cast Hypnotic Pattern. All enemies they hit roll with disadvantage. Legit can take out an entire spawn.
edit: I’ve also had a long-standing problem with the ease of Fighter multi class. Action Surge and armor prof at 2 dips is the craziest dip option in the game. Personally, I think Fighter should carry a double 13 requirement like Paladins; 13 STR or DEX with 13 CON required.
edit: I’ve also had a long-standing problem with the ease of Fighter multi class. Action Surge and armor prof at 2 dips is the craziest dip option in the game. Personally, I think Fighter should carry a double 13 requirement like Paladins; 13 STR or DEX with 13 CON required.
Off topic but I have to respond to that.
There are a coiuple of dips that I think are more powerful than that.
A couple of cleric options (though there are others), Twilight gets heavy armor (without needing to take it at level 1), martial weapons, 300ft of darkvision and hte whole party get it for an hour a day, emergency healing, guidance, and advantage on initiative for one member of the party all for a single level dip. Peace domain is equally powerful especially for a late dip Only medium armor but your choice of some of the most important skills and emboldening bond is insane (at character level 9, up to 4 creatures can have a d4 added to an attack roll, saving throw or ability check once per turn for 10 minutes 4 times a day, once per turn means you can add it to one of your attacks and to a save on the bads guys turn, it also stacks with guidance and bless, at level 14 it increases to 5 creatures 5 times a day). Sure wisdom is less easy to get to 13 than dex but it is important enough that it isn't a problem for something like a rogue that isn't too mad.
The other single level dip that is really powerful is hexblade warlock to enable attacks with charisma, I admit this is a bit niche is that it only benefits charisma casters who wield a sword (i.e. Paladins and Valor and sword bards) but it is almost a must have for these to avoid MADness eldritch blast gives a ranged option for decent damage and hex and hexblades curse are the icing on the cake .
Yes but it’s hard to accidentally have 13 wisdom or accidentally have 13 charisma you’ve built for that to reserve the option multiclassing Cleric or Warlock. 13 dexterity or strength is a given on almost every single character in fifth edition. Adding a 13 constitution requirement to fighter I agree would do a little bit to balance, because I have never seen a character that was not eligible to take a fighter multiclass.
that said I’d also be OK just getting rid of stat requirements for multiclassing entirely. The paladins in particular just feels really punitive considering that dexterity or charisma based paladins are honestly more common than strength-based ones
You don’t need Warcaster if you are only using a two handed weapon. Two handed weapons DONT require two hands to hold them, only to swing them.
The rules on "when you have a free hand" are really quite janky. One of the questions that comes up is "am I allowed to drop my weapon in order to cast a spell with somatic components?" Because if you can't, then the Somatic component can't require you to open your hand or do anything with it unless your hand was already in a particular shape just before you cast the spell... which is silly and nonsensical. Therefore your DM should always let you drop the weapon, thereby always having a free hand. And then you realise "I want to attach a loop of leather to the hilt of the weapon so it hangs from my wrist." Even without that, because "interact with object" is a free action, picking up the weapon is a free action anyway, meaning that you can effectively somatic cast then pick up without expending any action or bonus action.
When I played an EK, my DM just ignored the rules for EKs using somatic components even without Warcaster, as this is clearly something of an error in the class design, but I thought I better include it here for the RaW crowd.
I rode with Plate, Defence fighting style, shield and Shield and heavy armor master feat which gives an emergency AC of 26, and charging up a protection from evil and good before I went into any serious fight in Curse of Strahd made me nigh on unhittable outside of bosses rolling with +11 or more.
But anyway, I'm just babbling about how I play an EK now. What most people want from the 'battle mage' is someone who functions equally as both a fighter and a wizard/sorcerer, which isn't really what you're going to get as the concept presupposes that you can be as good as a fighter, and as good as a caster, but somehow be both. You can be a sub-par warrior AND a sub-par caster at the same time, or you can be a warrior, or you can be a caster.
True, I ignore the Somatic weirdness by saying that if you have a spell focus all Somatics work with that focus in your hand; that whole “if it has a cost it works if it doesn’t it won’t” thing is, frankly, dumb.
It also adds some true battle utility to Clerics and Paladins, since they can use their holy symbol on a shield as a spell focus. -
RE: EK expectations
yeah, a “battle mage” in that sense would closer be maybe a Champion/Bladesinger, or a Battle Master/War Magic sort.
Greetings, before I say my question I warn you that I'm amateur in D&D. I would like to ask which type of class or classes is right for me when choosing. For example, I would like to have at my disposal a heavy weapon, for example a two-handed weapon, and also wield darkness and lightning spells in addition.
I would suggest being a fighter with the eldritch knight subclass for those purposes. I'll tell you why:
To cast darkness at 3rd level as an alternative you could be a war cleric or hexblade warlock but you don't get many lightning spells as a cleric and many strings are attached to being a warlockCome participate in the Competition of the Finest Brews, Edition XXVIII?
My homebrew stuff:
Spells, Monsters, Magic Items, Feats, Subclasses.
I am an Archfey, but nobody seems to notice.
Extended Signature
If you’re willing to give up the darkness, the Path of the Storm Herald barbarian is thematically what you’re looking for and would be tons of fun to play.
You can add on the darkness by taking a feat or a race. Or at least I think you can.
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Tempest cleric.
There are many ways to do this, but an example potentially interesting way is a Hexblade Pact of the Blade Warlock with the invocations Devil's Sight and Improved Pact Weapon, and the spells Lightning Lure and Darkness.
Do you want to be a martial fighter who can use a buit of magic or a spell caster who can wield a weapon?
As others have said for a martial fighter who knows some magic an Eldritch Knight is probably the best option. Bear in mind than Darkness is a 2nd level spell and Eldritch knights don't get access to that until level 7 which is a long way into most campaigns.
Tempest Clericas and Storm Herald Barbariansare good options for melee attacks with lightning theme but do not give access to darkness.
If you must have both (before level 7) than the main option is a hexblade warlock. Speak to your DM before choosing a warlock you have made a pact with a creature from the Shadowfell and they may expect you to fulfill your side of the bargain. As a warlock you will be able to cast darkness at level 3 and choose an invocation that allows you to see though magical darkness (not an option with Eldritch knight). The big issue with this option (other than the pact) is it relies on a lot of attributes. Your weapon attacks use strength, your spells need high charisma, as a melee fighter you need high con and as you will be using medium armor you really want your dex to be at least 14. The hex warrier feature gets round this allowing you to attack with a weapon using your charisma as the modifier but this does not work for two handed weapons (though you can use a versatile weapon such as a long sword with two hands in this way.
I might also have the option of an oath breaker paladin, they can cast darkness (at level 5) (but not see through it). They do not have access to lightning spells but you might be able to flavor radiant damage to the effect you are after. This is very much up to the DM, the oath breaker paladin is designed as a way in which a DM can deal with a paladin that breaks their oath which is why it is in the dungeaon masters guide,, taking oath breaker as your "oath " at level 3 is essentially saying you spend two levels preparing to commit yourself to an oath which is powerful enough to be the source of your magic and you decide to break it before you even start. Many DMs will not allow this but it may be an option for you.
Eldritch Knight, as much as it seems like the most "basic" version of this concept, is probably mechanically both the weakest and the hardest to understand. Doesn't have its own easily browsable spell list (you must see the Wizard list, filter by spell schools, except for at certain levels you can take spells from any school), doesn't really get any features that interact with spellcasting until middle and high tiers, and even then, mixes spells and attacks in a way that is a little counterintuitive (can cast a spell and then attack, but not attack and then cast a spell). I would argue that a Wizard/Fighter multiclass is way easier for a new player to understand than an Eldritch Knight is, and is far easier to build with middling or low Intelligence, as weird as that seems.
I think that any ranger (not Beast Master though) or any of the heavy weapon+martial clerics would be my recommendation.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Hexblade Warlock with the Pact of the Blade or Tempest Cleric would be the two that I think fit best what you want to do. Both of them are full spell casters. Eldritch Knight is good if you want to mainly focus on weapon attacks and have relatively minor spell casting ability.
Obviously, Darkness fits very well. Spirit Shroud and Shadow of Moil are a couple of other Warlock spells that fit nicely with the darkness theme. Tempest Cleric adds some nice Thunder and Lightning type spells if you're more interested in that type of magic.
An Eldritch Knight is best as a tank. Unfortunately, the class requires Warcaster feat to be useable, since Shield is one of your most important spells.
Essentially an effective EK only really uses Protection from Evil and Good , Shield , Absorb Elements and Booming Blade with Ray of Frost as a ranged attack cantrip. The class never materialises into the kind of fighter/mage that most people who want to play it seem to envisage it as. It is a class that tanks really well in quite a different way to a barbarian, with lots of reactions and fun choices to make. But it's not a battle mage.
The best option for the OP would probably be to multiclass as Fighter/Sorcerer.
Eldritch Knight. Two handed Great Weapon Master, Plate armor, Defensive style, and Shield. Done and done. For pure giggles, make a Half Orc; even when they die they don’t really die 😁
If you ever end up having no use for your Bonus Action, you can also drop your weapon and make your opponent think they can take it away from you. On your turn, BA summon it back to you. 😂
RE: above post
You don’t need Warcaster if you are only using a two handed weapon. Two handed weapons DONT require two hands to hold them, only to swing them.
I think what EKS SHOULD HAVE been, is a class with a mechanic centered around storing spells in your weapon and then triggering them on hits, with maybe some other features giving them better concentration rolls to keep up buffs on themselves. Or maybe, the Wizard’s Warmage subclass should have been the Fighter EK subclass, with some minor tweaks to better empower weapon attacks? Instead, they’re about... Booming Blade, kind of? EKs and Arcane Archers are just incredibly disappointing, and worse at their theme than other more complicated classes or multiclass builds are, which is a shame.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Can confirm that a 2 Fighter/Wizard split is *totally and completely unfair and should not be allowed.* 😅
EKs are great at higher levels, and are okay at getting other classes spells like Shield with a 3 dip (currently playing a 6 Grave/3 EK with 28AC after Shield) but I do agree they exist in a weird place unless you take em all the way.
Ive noticed among a lot of players to knee jerk to BB, but at higher levels with Action Surge an EK can hit 3-4 enemies (hopefully using GWM), Action Surge, and cast Hypnotic Pattern. All enemies they hit roll with disadvantage. Legit can take out an entire spawn.
edit: I’ve also had a long-standing problem with the ease of Fighter multi class. Action Surge and armor prof at 2 dips is the craziest dip option in the game. Personally, I think Fighter should carry a double 13 requirement like Paladins; 13 STR or DEX with 13 CON required.
Off topic but I have to respond to that.
There are a coiuple of dips that I think are more powerful than that.
A couple of cleric options (though there are others), Twilight gets heavy armor (without needing to take it at level 1), martial weapons, 300ft of darkvision and hte whole party get it for an hour a day, emergency healing, guidance, and advantage on initiative for one member of the party all for a single level dip. Peace domain is equally powerful especially for a late dip Only medium armor but your choice of some of the most important skills and emboldening bond is insane (at character level 9, up to 4 creatures can have a d4 added to an attack roll, saving throw or ability check once per turn for 10 minutes 4 times a day, once per turn means you can add it to one of your attacks and to a save on the bads guys turn, it also stacks with guidance and bless, at level 14 it increases to 5 creatures 5 times a day). Sure wisdom is less easy to get to 13 than dex but it is important enough that it isn't a problem for something like a rogue that isn't too mad.
The other single level dip that is really powerful is hexblade warlock to enable attacks with charisma, I admit this is a bit niche is that it only benefits charisma casters who wield a sword (i.e. Paladins and Valor and sword bards) but it is almost a must have for these to avoid MADness eldritch blast gives a ranged option for decent damage and hex and hexblades curse are the icing on the cake .
Yes but it’s hard to accidentally have 13 wisdom or accidentally have 13 charisma you’ve built for that to reserve the option multiclassing Cleric or Warlock. 13 dexterity or strength is a given on almost every single character in fifth edition. Adding a 13 constitution requirement to fighter I agree would do a little bit to balance, because I have never seen a character that was not eligible to take a fighter multiclass.
that said I’d also be OK just getting rid of stat requirements for multiclassing entirely. The paladins in particular just feels really punitive considering that dexterity or charisma based paladins are honestly more common than strength-based ones
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
The rules on "when you have a free hand" are really quite janky. One of the questions that comes up is "am I allowed to drop my weapon in order to cast a spell with somatic components?" Because if you can't, then the Somatic component can't require you to open your hand or do anything with it unless your hand was already in a particular shape just before you cast the spell... which is silly and nonsensical. Therefore your DM should always let you drop the weapon, thereby always having a free hand. And then you realise "I want to attach a loop of leather to the hilt of the weapon so it hangs from my wrist." Even without that, because "interact with object" is a free action, picking up the weapon is a free action anyway, meaning that you can effectively somatic cast then pick up without expending any action or bonus action.
When I played an EK, my DM just ignored the rules for EKs using somatic components even without Warcaster, as this is clearly something of an error in the class design, but I thought I better include it here for the RaW crowd.
I rode with Plate, Defence fighting style, shield and Shield and heavy armor master feat which gives an emergency AC of 26, and charging up a protection from evil and good before I went into any serious fight in Curse of Strahd made me nigh on unhittable outside of bosses rolling with +11 or more.
But anyway, I'm just babbling about how I play an EK now. What most people want from the 'battle mage' is someone who functions equally as both a fighter and a wizard/sorcerer, which isn't really what you're going to get as the concept presupposes that you can be as good as a fighter, and as good as a caster, but somehow be both. You can be a sub-par warrior AND a sub-par caster at the same time, or you can be a warrior, or you can be a caster.
True, I ignore the Somatic weirdness by saying that if you have a spell focus all Somatics work with that focus in your hand; that whole “if it has a cost it works if it doesn’t it won’t” thing is, frankly, dumb.
It also adds some true battle utility to Clerics and Paladins, since they can use their holy symbol on a shield as a spell focus.
-
RE: EK expectations
yeah, a “battle mage” in that sense would closer be maybe a Champion/Bladesinger, or a Battle Master/War Magic sort.