I'm planning on making a Polearm Master Sentinel build for a campaign to get up to some shenanigans. But something has come to my attention. The premise of this build is that my paladin has a halberd, and thanks to Polearm Master, an enemy that enters the halberd's range provokes an opportunity attack. Thanks to Sentinel, that opportunity attack depletes the enemy's speed to zero for the rest of that turn, stopping them from getting close enough to use attacks and other actions with a range of 5 feet. But my table uses the grid rules with the optional rule for diagonals, so consider this scenario:
##C
#B#
A##
The paladin is at space A, space B is 5 feet away from the paladin, and there is an enemy at space C which is 15 feet away according to the diagonal rule. What happens if the enemy tries to move from space C to B? If the opportunity attack hits, is the enemy now in space B within 5 feet of the paladin (unable to go anywhere else)? Or is the enemy stuck in space C because it got hit while 10 feet away from the paladin, thus depriving the enemy of the movement needed to enter space B? Either way, the paladin's Thunderous Smite can ruin the enemy's day, but this is something I need to know.
Unless otherwise stated, all reactions happen after their trigger, so PAM can't happen until C reaches B. When you make an AoO as someone leaves your reach, there is special wording letting you attack before they actually leave, but that's not present on PAM. So C will spend 10 feet of movement while 15 feet away to become 5 feet away, reach B, then you're allowed to swing since C just entered your reach.
Bear in mind AoOs with Reach weapons were errataed, and rightfully so - originally, the RAW was that they worked nothing like how everyone thought they did. Post-errata, they work better, but I find they're still widely misinterpreted. Here's the Reach rule for weapons:
This weapon adds 5 feet to your reach when you attack with it, as well as when determining your reach for opportunity attacks with it (see chapter 9).
PAM states that while wielding your polearm, enemies trigger AoOs when they enter your reach. The reason you can make the AoO at 10 feet is the errata, which is everything after the comma in the definition of the Reach weapon property. However, you don't need to make AoOs with the polearm to make an AoO - nothing about the polearm stops you from kicking people. RAW, PAM lets you kick anyone who enters your reach, i.e. within 5 feet.
Sentinel cuts speed to 0 on any AoO you make.
So, if someone is approaching you, you can AoO stop them at 10 feet out with your polearm, then the following turn, if they approach you again, you can AoO stop them with your foot (you can't make an AoO at 5 feet with your reach weapon, per the errata I posted). By the same token, if you're wielding a spear in one hand and a warhammer in the other, and someone walks up to within 5 feet of you, triggering PAM, you can make your AoO with the warhammer.
Your reach is 10ft. Every second diagonal you take is 10ft away, so C is 15ft from A currently. Once they come diagonally to space B they are now 5ft away and in your reach, will trigger your PAM, and reduce movement to 0.
It *seems* like it’s a way around PAM (ie. getting within 5ft despite a reach weapon) but more often than not this situation won’t arise. For example, if C had already moved 25ft and diagonally once already before getting to the aforementioned setup, they wouldn’t even be allowed to go to position B (as it would cost 10ft to do so and C’s speed is only 30ft).
So it’s one of those minor inconsistencies that probably won’t amount to a lot of in-game logic weirdness, but nonetheless it can happen. At the very least, it sure beats square fireballs. Hahahaha
If you use the 5/10 diagonal movement rules, the reach of 5 ft would be the green and 10 ft the cyan line.
I'm assuming to use the same rules for Area of Effect for spells from the DMG (Using Miniatures)
If an area of effect is circular and covers at least half a square, it affects that square.
which leads to the 'effective' area on the map for a 10 ft reach being exactly the same as in a 5-5 ft diagonal grid. Between the 5-5 and 5-10 diagonal grid approach, only a 15+ ft reach would make a difference.
If you use the 5/10 diagonal movement rules, the reach of 5 ft would be the green and 10 ft the cyan line.
I'm assuming to use the same rules for Area of Effect for spells from the DMG (Using Miniatures)
If an area of effect is circular and covers at least half a square, it affects that square.
which leads to the 'effective' area on the map for a 10 ft reach being exactly the same as in a 5-5 ft diagonal grid. Between the 5-5 and 5-10 diagonal grid approach, only a 15+ ft reach would make a difference.
In the case where you use an Area of Effect larger than 10 ft, in which case the 5-5 ft grid loses all symmetry and breaks all logic - Square fireballs and the like.
Also, for the 10-ft reach cyan color, the grid indicated is wrong - it does not cover the corners. It's not 1.5 per grid square, and reach is also not a circular function when playing with 5-10 diagonals so usually you would consider the second diagonal from the center to not be within the reach at all. Why does this 10 ft reach have half-squares on the cyan range? Unless I'm looking at this wrong?
If you use the 5/10 diagonal movement rules, the reach of 5 ft would be the green and 10 ft the cyan line.
I'm assuming to use the same rules for Area of Effect for spells from the DMG (Using Miniatures)
If an area of effect is circular and covers at least half a square, it affects that square.
which leads to the 'effective' area on the map for a 10 ft reach being exactly the same as in a 5-5 ft diagonal grid. Between the 5-5 and 5-10 diagonal grid approach, only a 15+ ft reach would make a difference.
In the case where you use an Area of Effect larger than 10 ft, in which case the 5-5 ft grid loses all symmetry and breaks all logic - Square fireballs and the like.
Also, for the 10-ft reach cyan color, the grid indicated is wrong - it does not cover the corners. It's not 1.5 per grid square, and reach is also not a circular function when playing with 5-10 diagonals so usually you would consider the second diagonal from the center to not be within the reach at all. Why does this 10 ft reach have half-squares on the cyan range? Unless I'm looking at this wrong?
This is just my take on the situation, not anything official.
If you use the 5/10 diagonal rule, the first diagonal counts as 5 feet, the second diagonal as 10, making the two adjoining diagonal squares 15 feet. As the 10 feet reach is between 5 and 15 feet, I assume it would be half a square, which also makes sense when you consider the diagonal of that square is 10 feet. Thus the area of reach would be affecting 'half a square', which I would consider analogous to the 'half a square' affected by circular areas of effect for spells.
I'm still quite fascinated by the concept that a circle on a map grid is square, and thinking geometric shapes is... challenging...
This is how I would rule reach, if I was using the 5/10 feet diagonal. Personally, I much prefer the square circle on the 5/5 feet diagonal ;)
I'm planning on making a Polearm Master Sentinel build for a campaign to get up to some shenanigans. But something has come to my attention. The premise of this build is that my paladin has a halberd, and thanks to Polearm Master, an enemy that enters the halberd's range provokes an opportunity attack. Thanks to Sentinel, that opportunity attack depletes the enemy's speed to zero for the rest of that turn, stopping them from getting close enough to use attacks and other actions with a range of 5 feet. But my table uses the grid rules with the optional rule for diagonals, so consider this scenario:
##C
#B#
A##
The paladin is at space A, space B is 5 feet away from the paladin, and there is an enemy at space C which is 15 feet away according to the diagonal rule. What happens if the enemy tries to move from space C to B? If the opportunity attack hits, is the enemy now in space B within 5 feet of the paladin (unable to go anywhere else)? Or is the enemy stuck in space C because it got hit while 10 feet away from the paladin, thus depriving the enemy of the movement needed to enter space B? Either way, the paladin's Thunderous Smite can ruin the enemy's day, but this is something I need to know.
I’ve never played with the optional rules but it seems C is both 10’ and 15’ from you so if they entered that space it would work.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Your reach is 10ft. Every second diagonal you take is 10ft away, so C is 15ft from A currently. Once they come diagonally to space B they are now 5ft away and in your reach, will trigger your PAM, and reduce movement to 0.
It *seems* like it’s a way around PAM (ie. getting within 5ft despite a reach weapon) but more often than not this situation won’t arise. For example, if C had already moved 25ft and diagonally once already before getting to the aforementioned setup, they wouldn’t even be allowed to go to position B (as it would cost 10ft to do so and C’s speed is only 30ft).
So it’s one of those minor inconsistencies that probably won’t amount to a lot of in-game logic weirdness, but nonetheless it can happen. At the very least, it sure beats square fireballs. Hahahaha
Squares are for squares.
Use Hexes. They just plain work.
If you use the 5/10 diagonal movement rules, the reach of 5 ft would be the green and 10 ft the cyan line.
I'm assuming to use the same rules for Area of Effect for spells from the DMG (Using Miniatures)
which leads to the 'effective' area on the map for a 10 ft reach being exactly the same as in a 5-5 ft diagonal grid. Between the 5-5 and 5-10 diagonal grid approach, only a 15+ ft reach would make a difference.
More Interesting Lock Picking Rules
Hexagons _are_ bestagons, but it's not up to me what rules we use.
In the case where you use an Area of Effect larger than 10 ft, in which case the 5-5 ft grid loses all symmetry and breaks all logic - Square fireballs and the like.
Also, for the 10-ft reach cyan color, the grid indicated is wrong - it does not cover the corners. It's not 1.5 per grid square, and reach is also not a circular function when playing with 5-10 diagonals so usually you would consider the second diagonal from the center to not be within the reach at all. Why does this 10 ft reach have half-squares on the cyan range? Unless I'm looking at this wrong?
This is just my take on the situation, not anything official.
If you use the 5/10 diagonal rule, the first diagonal counts as 5 feet, the second diagonal as 10, making the two adjoining diagonal squares 15 feet. As the 10 feet reach is between 5 and 15 feet, I assume it would be half a square, which also makes sense when you consider the diagonal of that square is 10 feet. Thus the area of reach would be affecting 'half a square', which I would consider analogous to the 'half a square' affected by circular areas of effect for spells.
I'm still quite fascinated by the concept that a circle on a map grid is square, and thinking geometric shapes is... challenging...
This is how I would rule reach, if I was using the 5/10 feet diagonal. Personally, I much prefer the square circle on the 5/5 feet diagonal ;)
More Interesting Lock Picking Rules
Ah, no - you don’t count each diagonal as 7.5 ft and cover half the square when using 5-10. It works way simpler that way when using in game.
I advise you to treat circles as squares on a grid. Unless you have the 5 feet, 10 feet diagonal movement approximation.
Altrazin Aghanes - Wizard/Fighter
Varpulis Windhowl - Fighter
Skolson Demjon - Cleric/Fighter
Agree! 🙂