One of my players wants to play a vampire for Curse of Strahd and they are a slightly newer player who does not like to play characters that are too complicated.
I have shown them the ropes for early levels of this character:
Dhampir Blood Hunter
12str 14dex 19con 14int 10wis 14cha (rolled, with racials added)
This character will be focusing on the bite attack, making it magical at lv2, then ghostlayer subclass for lv3, at lv4 picking up abberant dragonmark for Chill Touch and Charm.
However, the class progression slows dramatically after levels 5/6/7. And so I was considering if three levels of Echo Knight in the higher levels might be worth it? Flavoured as the vampires’ shadow, same as chill touch
Do you think it is too complicated? Would it be worth the multiclass? Or are there better alternatives?
The other members of the party are a devotion paladin, soul knife rogue and moon sorcerer (so I am a little concerned about the vampire keeping up)
Edit: if it’s relevant, I would allow unarmed fighting style to buff the bite attack. Though they would need to doff their shield if they wanted to get the d8
This seems like a lot for a new player. Also as someone who has played a dhampir trying to make it feel like a full vampire, it never does. Your player will probably feel disappointed. It's why I'm increasingly getting mad at WOTC's decision to publish half-measures to playing monsters instead of working on ways for you to actually play the monsters that should be playable. Liche's, demons, devils, angels, vampires, werewolves, and more could all have playable versions. Instead, they do things like publish a dhampir and say if you want to play a vampire reflavor it. It drives me insane when the people who literally write the rules say to reflavor something. Would it take a lot of work to make it balanced? Absolutely. For the creators of the "world's greatest role-playing game" it should be possible. In the meantime, Esper the Bard is releasing a monstrous heroes book so people can play as monsters. The most recent playtest has vampire class features and four subclasses. While the higher-level abilities like Misty Escape aren't published, the current document brings the class to level 11 and has all subclass features. Might be a good start. https://www.patreon.com/posts/77535876
Cool, that does do all the desired things but is a bit more complicated than the current build I have taught them - and does not help them much at all in a curse of strahd setting (whereas at the moment they are a vampire that hunts evil and undead)
Out if curiosity, what do you mean by it doesn't help them in a curse of strahd setting? This almost feels tailor made for that module unless I am missing or have forgotten something?
One of my players wants to play a vampire for Curse of Strahd and they are a slightly newer player who does not like to play characters that are too complicated.
I have shown them the ropes for early levels of this character:
Dhampir Blood Hunter
12str 14dex 19con 14int 10wis 14cha (rolled, with racials added)
This character will be focusing on the bite attack, making it magical at lv2, then ghostlayer subclass for lv3, at lv4 picking up abberant dragonmark for Chill Touch and Charm.
However, the class progression slows dramatically after levels 5/6/7. And so I was considering if three levels of Echo Knight in the higher levels might be worth it? Flavoured as the vampires’ shadow, same as chill touch
Do you think it is too complicated? Would it be worth the multiclass? Or are there better alternatives?
The other members of the party are a devotion paladin, soul knife rogue and moon sorcerer (so I am a little concerned about the vampire keeping up)
1st off, if the player has been playing from level 1 to level 5, it's time you let them make their own decisions about levelling up their character. If you're concerned about them falling behind you can always give them some magic item loot that only their vampire can use - especially if they start killing Strad's vampire allies in the game it would make perfect narrative sense for those enemies to drop vampire-only gear. If you're worried about the other players getting jealous just take them aside and explain your concerns about the new player keeping up & having fun.
You could give them e.g. a +2 version of the Insignia of Claws, or a "Shadow Cloak" - i.e. a Cloak of Displacement that only Undead can wear, or a Cloak of the Bat, or a "Vial of Blood Draining" - that gives them a +2d8 necrotic damage against non-undead that heals them, or a ring that allows them to cast Dominate Monster on 1 undead creature /LR. Or give them some fun thematic feats for free : e.g. give them immunity to the Charm and Life Drain abilities of other vampires, or have their teeth get longer and have the damage die follow the Monk MA die scaling, give them an unlimited BA dash.
There's no reason to limit yourself to published rules / classes if they aren't working for your player.
For a lot of people the mechanics of the game are not the draw, it is the playing of it. I try to help these players out without being like: well you should know by now what you are doing… tis does not mean i don’t give options and talk with them so that character creation and levelling is instead done by collaboration.
Yes magic items are great for ‘levelling’ parties. But i also wanted to make sure i had considered the options well for giving them options
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D&D, Youth Work and the Priesthood sadly do not typically interact... I do what I can!
Echo Knight is fine, it's a very powerful subclass but can be hard to understand since the "echo" is very poorly defined / explained in the rules.
Undead Warlock would also fit and gets a cool fear ability.
Or there is always Barbarian if you allowed all the STR-attack only features to apply to their Dhampir Bite.
But if they aren't excited by mechanics, then there's not much need to give them some crazy MC build. Just give them some magic items to mean they can do what they like to do in combat really effectively, rather than giving them a zillion different mechanics they can use.
Blood Hunter is a pretty complicated class in my opinion that many argue isn’t worth pursuing due to lackluster power. Then again, multi-classing can also be very confusing. Still, if you do it to forget about Blood Hunter and make that original class it more for flavor it could be a good idea. As far as Echo Hunter though… why? i’m not sure it exactly screams Vampire Fighter, but then again none of them really do. Maybe look at a few simpler choices that go with Blood Hunter’s stats and have the player look into one they feel interested in.
Please take all of this with a grain of salt, as I am still lacking in experience, but I just wanted to help contribute to the conversation with my limited knowledge.
I was thinking Echo Knight or Gloom Stalker because they both give more attacks, a use for the bonus action and a way to make the bite attack more effective - speaking to the slightly underpowered element of Bloodhunter that you mentioned.
In terms of vampire slaying, Ghost Bloodhunter has that sorted with the tracking and radiant damage (which my played is going to play into their character’s psuedo-catholic background for).
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D&D, Youth Work and the Priesthood sadly do not typically interact... I do what I can!
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One of my players wants to play a vampire for Curse of Strahd and they are a slightly newer player who does not like to play characters that are too complicated.
I have shown them the ropes for early levels of this character:
Dhampir Blood Hunter
12str 14dex 19con 14int 10wis 14cha (rolled, with racials added)
This character will be focusing on the bite attack, making it magical at lv2, then ghostlayer subclass for lv3, at lv4 picking up abberant dragonmark for Chill Touch and Charm.
However, the class progression slows dramatically after levels 5/6/7. And so I was considering if three levels of Echo Knight in the higher levels might be worth it? Flavoured as the vampires’ shadow, same as chill touch
Do you think it is too complicated? Would it be worth the multiclass? Or are there better alternatives?
The other members of the party are a devotion paladin, soul knife rogue and moon sorcerer (so I am a little concerned about the vampire keeping up)
Edit: if it’s relevant, I would allow unarmed fighting style to buff the bite attack. Though they would need to doff their shield if they wanted to get the d8
This seems like a lot for a new player. Also as someone who has played a dhampir trying to make it feel like a full vampire, it never does. Your player will probably feel disappointed. It's why I'm increasingly getting mad at WOTC's decision to publish half-measures to playing monsters instead of working on ways for you to actually play the monsters that should be playable. Liche's, demons, devils, angels, vampires, werewolves, and more could all have playable versions. Instead, they do things like publish a dhampir and say if you want to play a vampire reflavor it. It drives me insane when the people who literally write the rules say to reflavor something. Would it take a lot of work to make it balanced? Absolutely. For the creators of the "world's greatest role-playing game" it should be possible. In the meantime, Esper the Bard is releasing a monstrous heroes book so people can play as monsters. The most recent playtest has vampire class features and four subclasses. While the higher-level abilities like Misty Escape aren't published, the current document brings the class to level 11 and has all subclass features. Might be a good start. https://www.patreon.com/posts/77535876
Cool, that does do all the desired things but is a bit more complicated than the current build I have taught them - and does not help them much at all in a curse of strahd setting (whereas at the moment they are a vampire that hunts evil and undead)
Strigoi is tempting though
Out if curiosity, what do you mean by it doesn't help them in a curse of strahd setting? This almost feels tailor made for that module unless I am missing or have forgotten something?
Oh thematically it is great
The amount of necrotic resistance, undead and non-magical weapon resistance is tough though
1st off, if the player has been playing from level 1 to level 5, it's time you let them make their own decisions about levelling up their character. If you're concerned about them falling behind you can always give them some magic item loot that only their vampire can use - especially if they start killing Strad's vampire allies in the game it would make perfect narrative sense for those enemies to drop vampire-only gear. If you're worried about the other players getting jealous just take them aside and explain your concerns about the new player keeping up & having fun.
You could give them e.g. a +2 version of the Insignia of Claws, or a "Shadow Cloak" - i.e. a Cloak of Displacement that only Undead can wear, or a Cloak of the Bat, or a "Vial of Blood Draining" - that gives them a +2d8 necrotic damage against non-undead that heals them, or a ring that allows them to cast Dominate Monster on 1 undead creature /LR. Or give them some fun thematic feats for free : e.g. give them immunity to the Charm and Life Drain abilities of other vampires, or have their teeth get longer and have the damage die follow the Monk MA die scaling, give them an unlimited BA dash.
There's no reason to limit yourself to published rules / classes if they aren't working for your player.
For a lot of people the mechanics of the game are not the draw, it is the playing of it. I try to help these players out without being like: well you should know by now what you are doing… tis does not mean i don’t give options and talk with them so that character creation and levelling is instead done by collaboration.
Yes magic items are great for ‘levelling’ parties. But i also wanted to make sure i had considered the options well for giving them options
For options:
Echo Knight is fine, it's a very powerful subclass but can be hard to understand since the "echo" is very poorly defined / explained in the rules.
Undead Warlock would also fit and gets a cool fear ability.
Or there is always Barbarian if you allowed all the STR-attack only features to apply to their Dhampir Bite.
But if they aren't excited by mechanics, then there's not much need to give them some crazy MC build. Just give them some magic items to mean they can do what they like to do in combat really effectively, rather than giving them a zillion different mechanics they can use.
Yeah that makes sense.
Blood Hunter is a pretty complicated class in my opinion that many argue isn’t worth pursuing due to lackluster power. Then again, multi-classing can also be very confusing. Still, if you do it to forget about Blood Hunter and make that original class it more for flavor it could be a good idea.
As far as Echo Hunter though… why? i’m not sure it exactly screams Vampire Fighter, but then again none of them really do. Maybe look at a few simpler choices that go with Blood Hunter’s stats and have the player look into one they feel interested in.
Please take all of this with a grain of salt, as I am still lacking in experience, but I just wanted to help contribute to the conversation with my limited knowledge.
I was thinking Echo Knight or Gloom Stalker because they both give more attacks, a use for the bonus action and a way to make the bite attack more effective - speaking to the slightly underpowered element of Bloodhunter that you mentioned.
In terms of vampire slaying, Ghost Bloodhunter has that sorted with the tracking and radiant damage (which my played is going to play into their character’s psuedo-catholic background for).