Hi so I've seen a lot of like what's the highest amount of damage, or the highest AC you can get and stuff like that. But my question is just what is a good DPR for a fighter, not like the bare minimum just some solid per round damage.
Same goes for like what's a good stack of hit points, or what AC do you consider Decent. Just a nice middle of the road to compare too.
Also Sorry if this should have been in Rules& Game Mechanics I wasn't really sure.
Depends on level, equipment and class (and in some cases, lineage). For martial classes at level 1 then between 14 and 16 is average but you can go up to 18 which is good or 20 (Forge cleric Warforged) which is really good.
For DPR a lot depends if you are trying to damage. A cleric you spends his turn casting bless does no damage but increases the expected damage of his friends (along with thier survivability). Burst damage depends on how many round you have before it is replenished. I paladin can do much more damage per round is if their is only one combat in a day lasting 4 or 5 rounds than a day that their are 6-8 combats.
Rogues are a useful measure in this regard as they have no limited resources and provide sustained damage but even then a lot depends on how hard the enemies are to hit how easy it is to get sneak attack and whether they are duel wielding.
I would probably go with 75% sneak attack, 60% to hit and for simplicity no duel wielding. To make things really simple lets not us ethe feats optional rule effectively forcing out rgoue to ASI into Dex.
At level 1 with +3 dex and wielding a shortsword he would average use over 9 on a hit and 5.5 on average
At level 2 he has probably found a rapier increasing average damage to 6
By level 4 the extra sneak attack and dex (still assuming 60% to hit) means he now averages 8 damager per round
By level 8 this has increased to 12 though magic items may increase things at this point
The standard for average damage for a character that is focused on delivering damage is a two weapon fighting rogue. It’s what WOTC actually used for a while to balance features out, while also comparing burst features to the spell damage chart in the DMG.
the rogue actually starts out fairly high at 1st level compared to other classes, but then gradually and evenly gains more damage as sneak attack is added every odd level.
the average damage for DPR doesnt take into account other class features, subclass features, or feats at this point. The following is the chart laying this out. The reaction damage is representative of a rogues reaction attack and is not nearly as powerful on other classes.
Rogue damage baseline, TWF, short swords, only dexterity ASIs chosen.
I have to wonder what math was used to get those numbers. For example, a lvl 1 rogue that starts with 16 in dex and attacks with two short swords with sneak attack does an average of 13.5 damage a round, discounting AC. If you assume you hit about 70% of the time, you get an adjusted DPR of 9.45, and if we assume 75% of the time, that's ~10.1 so where's that extra bit coming from? If we try to account for critcal hits, a crit does an average of 24 damage, which happening about 5% of the time comes out to affecting our average dpr by 1.2, so even if we account assuming an average hit rate of 65%, we still do 9.975 DPR while accounting for crits. SO WHERE DO THESE NUMBERS COME FROM?
Likewise, the discrepancy in damage between what you do on your round and what you get on your reaction seems puzzling. lvl 19 says 39.4 on your round, and 28 on your reaction, but the only difference between the two is you don't attack with your off-hand weapon, which as a short sword is a d6 of damage. Yet there are more than11 points of damage difference.
I have to wonder what math was used to get those numbers. For example, a lvl 1 rogue that starts with 16 in dex and attacks with two short swords with sneak attack does an average of 13.5 damage a round, discounting AC. If you assume you hit about 70% of the time, you get an adjusted DPR of 9.45, and if we assume 75% of the time, that's ~10.1 so where's that extra bit coming from? If we try to account for critcal hits, a crit does an average of 24 damage, which happening about 5% of the time comes out to affecting our average dpr by 1.2, so even if we account assuming an average hit rate of 65%, we still do 9.975 DPR while accounting for crits. SO WHERE DO THESE NUMBERS COME FROM?
Likewise, the discrepancy in damage between what you do on your round and what you get on your reaction seems puzzling. lvl 19 says 39.4 on your round, and 28 on your reaction, but the only difference between the two is you don't attack with your off-hand weapon, which as a short sword is a d6 of damage. Yet there are more than11 points of damage difference.
what's going on here?
The accuracy is a static 60%, and is taking critical s into account.
the difference between reaction damage and two weapon fighting is highlighting exactly how much more effective having two chances to land sneak attack is vs 1 chance. Yes two weapon fighting can still only land the sneak attack once on that turn, but the second chance to land the attack drastically increases the likelihood of using sneak attack at all.
I have to wonder what math was used to get those numbers. For example, a lvl 1 rogue that starts with 16 in dex and attacks with two short swords with sneak attack does an average of 13.5 damage a round, discounting AC. If you assume you hit about 70% of the time, you get an adjusted DPR of 9.45, and if we assume 75% of the time, that's ~10.1 so where's that extra bit coming from? If we try to account for critcal hits, a crit does an average of 24 damage, which happening about 5% of the time comes out to affecting our average dpr by 1.2, so even if we account assuming an average hit rate of 65%, we still do 9.975 DPR while accounting for crits. SO WHERE DO THESE NUMBERS COME FROM?
Likewise, the discrepancy in damage between what you do on your round and what you get on your reaction seems puzzling. lvl 19 says 39.4 on your round, and 28 on your reaction, but the only difference between the two is you don't attack with your off-hand weapon, which as a short sword is a d6 of damage. Yet there are more than11 points of damage difference.
what's going on here?
The accuracy is a static 60%, and is taking critical s into account.
the difference between reaction damage and two weapon fighting is highlighting exactly how much more effective having two chances to land sneak attack is vs 1 chance. Yes two weapon fighting can still only land the sneak attack once on that turn, but the second chance to land the attack drastically increases the likelihood of using sneak attack at all.
Assuming the reaction is a reaction attack, like an opportunity attack? Why is the damage so low again? You can sneak attack on your turn, but also on somebody else's turn using your reaction. So, basically, you are going to be able to sneak attack a max of twice a round since you only get one reaction.
Wouldn't pretty much every class have a much lower damage on a single attack, than their whole turn? I would think the fact that a rogue can do sneak attack, which is their primary means of damage, even with an AoO, means their reaction damage is higher comparatively.
I have to wonder what math was used to get those numbers. For example, a lvl 1 rogue that starts with 16 in dex and attacks with two short swords with sneak attack does an average of 13.5 damage a round, discounting AC. If you assume you hit about 70% of the time, you get an adjusted DPR of 9.45, and if we assume 75% of the time, that's ~10.1 so where's that extra bit coming from? If we try to account for critcal hits, a crit does an average of 24 damage, which happening about 5% of the time comes out to affecting our average dpr by 1.2, so even if we account assuming an average hit rate of 65%, we still do 9.975 DPR while accounting for crits. SO WHERE DO THESE NUMBERS COME FROM?
Likewise, the discrepancy in damage between what you do on your round and what you get on your reaction seems puzzling. lvl 19 says 39.4 on your round, and 28 on your reaction, but the only difference between the two is you don't attack with your off-hand weapon, which as a short sword is a d6 of damage. Yet there are more than11 points of damage difference.
what's going on here?
The accuracy is a static 60%, and is taking critical s into account.
the difference between reaction damage and two weapon fighting is highlighting exactly how much more effective having two chances to land sneak attack is vs 1 chance. Yes two weapon fighting can still only land the sneak attack once on that turn, but the second chance to land the attack drastically increases the likelihood of using sneak attack at all.
Assuming the reaction is a reaction attack, like an opportunity attack? Why is the damage so low again? You can sneak attack on your turn, but also on somebody else's turn using your reaction. So, basically, you are going to be able to sneak attack a max of twice a round since you only get one reaction.
Wouldn't pretty much every class have a much lower damage on a single attack, than their whole turn? I would think the fact that a rogue can do sneak attack, which is their primary means of damage, even with an AoO, means their reaction damage is higher comparatively.
Again, the average damage of the reaction is so low is because there is only one chance to apply sneak attack vs the two while two weapon fighting.
two weapon fighting with a rogue changes a 60% chance to land one attack to about an 84% chance to land atleast one attack. Because the majority of the damage comes from sneak attack, the DOR reflects this.
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Hi so I've seen a lot of like what's the highest amount of damage, or the highest AC you can get and stuff like that. But my question is just what is a good DPR for a fighter, not like the bare minimum just some solid per round damage.
Same goes for like what's a good stack of hit points, or what AC do you consider Decent. Just a nice middle of the road to compare too.
Also Sorry if this should have been in Rules& Game Mechanics I wasn't really sure.
Depends on level, equipment and class (and in some cases, lineage). For martial classes at level 1 then between 14 and 16 is average but you can go up to 18 which is good or 20 (Forge cleric Warforged) which is really good.
Same goes for DPR, depends on class and level.
For DPR a lot depends if you are trying to damage. A cleric you spends his turn casting bless does no damage but increases the expected damage of his friends (along with thier survivability). Burst damage depends on how many round you have before it is replenished. I paladin can do much more damage per round is if their is only one combat in a day lasting 4 or 5 rounds than a day that their are 6-8 combats.
Rogues are a useful measure in this regard as they have no limited resources and provide sustained damage but even then a lot depends on how hard the enemies are to hit how easy it is to get sneak attack and whether they are duel wielding.
I would probably go with 75% sneak attack, 60% to hit and for simplicity no duel wielding. To make things really simple lets not us ethe feats optional rule effectively forcing out rgoue to ASI into Dex.
The standard for average damage for a character that is focused on delivering damage is a two weapon fighting rogue. It’s what WOTC actually used for a while to balance features out, while also comparing burst features to the spell damage chart in the DMG.
the rogue actually starts out fairly high at 1st level compared to other classes, but then gradually and evenly gains more damage as sneak attack is added every odd level.
the average damage for DPR doesnt take into account other class features, subclass features, or feats at this point. The following is the chart laying this out. The reaction damage is representative of a rogues reaction attack and is not nearly as powerful on other classes.
Rogue damage baseline, TWF, short swords, only dexterity ASIs chosen.
Lvl 1= 9.535, +6.35 with reaction
Lvl 3= 12.72, +8.625 with reaction
Lvl 5= 16.505, +11.5 with reaction
Lvl 7= 19.69, +13.775 with reaction
Lvl 9= 23.475, +16.65 with reaction
Lvl 11= 26.66, +18.925 with reaction
Lvl 13= 29.845, +21.2 with reaction
Lvl 15= 33.03, +23.475 with reaction
Lvl 17= 36.215, +25.75 with reaction
Lvl 19= 39.4, +28.025 with reaction
I have to wonder what math was used to get those numbers. For example, a lvl 1 rogue that starts with 16 in dex and attacks with two short swords with sneak attack does an average of 13.5 damage a round, discounting AC. If you assume you hit about 70% of the time, you get an adjusted DPR of 9.45, and if we assume 75% of the time, that's ~10.1 so where's that extra bit coming from? If we try to account for critcal hits, a crit does an average of 24 damage, which happening about 5% of the time comes out to affecting our average dpr by 1.2, so even if we account assuming an average hit rate of 65%, we still do 9.975 DPR while accounting for crits. SO WHERE DO THESE NUMBERS COME FROM?
Likewise, the discrepancy in damage between what you do on your round and what you get on your reaction seems puzzling. lvl 19 says 39.4 on your round, and 28 on your reaction, but the only difference between the two is you don't attack with your off-hand weapon, which as a short sword is a d6 of damage. Yet there are more than11 points of damage difference.
what's going on here?
The accuracy is a static 60%, and is taking critical s into account.
the difference between reaction damage and two weapon fighting is highlighting exactly how much more effective having two chances to land sneak attack is vs 1 chance. Yes two weapon fighting can still only land the sneak attack once on that turn, but the second chance to land the attack drastically increases the likelihood of using sneak attack at all.
Assuming the reaction is a reaction attack, like an opportunity attack? Why is the damage so low again? You can sneak attack on your turn, but also on somebody else's turn using your reaction. So, basically, you are going to be able to sneak attack a max of twice a round since you only get one reaction.
Wouldn't pretty much every class have a much lower damage on a single attack, than their whole turn? I would think the fact that a rogue can do sneak attack, which is their primary means of damage, even with an AoO, means their reaction damage is higher comparatively.
Again, the average damage of the reaction is so low is because there is only one chance to apply sneak attack vs the two while two weapon fighting.
two weapon fighting with a rogue changes a 60% chance to land one attack to about an 84% chance to land atleast one attack. Because the majority of the damage comes from sneak attack, the DOR reflects this.