So I know this is a loaded question, but I’m curious .... assume spells that target a single creature and will be cast using a 9th level spell slot ..... thoughts ? Disintegrate is always my go to kill spell looking to expand my options.
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Most people will say wish, but I don't actually like that spell when people say it's so powerful. It has limitations, can't cast any of the other 9th level spells, and you may die, get weakened for days, or never be able to cast it again.
I say that a spell I've seen called invulnerability is the most powerful. Just imagine it. A bard making themselves immune to all damage. A wish can't hurt them, they can't take any damage at all, and its a 9th level spell. The concentration on invulnerability doesn't mean anything, because you can't get hit, and you can cast normal spells. If your level 17 with 9th level spells, the bard can SPAM fireball, the all around overpowered 3rd level spell. They have insane damage output, and invincibility, so they can win any fight, ANY. Not to mention, bards can just use swords.
Disintegrate does a very respectable 107.5 (19d6+40) force damage, single target, DEX save or suck
The iconic level 9 attack spell meteor swarm does an incredible 140 (40d6) fire/bludgeoning damage, huge AOE, DEX save for half
Prismatic wall (assuming an enemy is dumb enough to walk right through it) does a potential 175 (50d6) of various damage and some other nasty effects, obstacle, 5 DEX save or sucks for each 10d6
A couple of spells with damage that adds up over time:
Crown of stars 9 attacks (1 per bonus action per turn) that do 23 (4d12) radiant damage on hit, totaling 207 (36d12) potential damage.
Arcane hand/Bigby's hand creates a for 1 minute, and can attack for 54 (12d8) force damage on hit per bonus action per turn, totaling 540 (120d8) potential damage.
Animate objects creates 18 tiny constructs for 1 minute, each can attack for 6.5 (1d4+4) damage on hit, all 18 per bonus action per turn for 117 (18d4+72) damage per turn, totaling 1170 (180d4+720) potential damage
The hand and objects also disappear if they run out of HP, but they do a lot of damage very fast, and if they absorb a bunch of attacks for you at the same time, then they more then did their job.
I didn't go through every spell, but animate objects is probably the best for taking out a single target.
Foresight is a pretty rad spell! Advantage on everything and enemies have disadvantage on attacks? Plus it lasts 8 hours so almost all day AND there's no downside to using it! Sure its a bit more boring that Wish, but Advantage on everything all day is nothing to sneeze at.
Gonna take a different approach here and say True Polymorph.
DxJxC did an excellent breakdown of damaging spells (Animate Objects: the genocide spell nobody ever realizes they need in their spell list), but True Polymorph allows your target to make one Wisdom saving throw to avoid being turned into a shiny new coin purse. They don't get to save at the ends of their turns. They don't get to save every seven days. They don't get to save ever again if they miss the first one. Cast True Polymorph, target fails its save, you turn it into a commemorative spoon, and it stays a commemorative spoon until someone thinks to dispel it or until someone hates you enough to destroy your commemorative spoon. You can have an entire collection of commemorative spoons that used to be CR15+ critters.
(EDIT: PLUUUS...a commemorative spoon has a Dex score of 0 and one HP. Cast True Polymorph on critter with huge saves and resistances, turn into spoon. Wait one day. use level 9 spell slot to cast Meteor Swarm on the spoon, which fails its Dex save because it's a spoon. The spoon form absorbs one point of damage; everything else transfers to the original creature at full strength, no save because the spoon already failed the save against the spell. Good-bye, whatever problematic thing your dead commemorative spoon used to be.)
Or, if you're persuasive enough, you can convince your DM to let you enchant the sword that used to be an ancient black dragon. An enchanted weapon cannot be destroyed, ergo its HP cannot be reduced to zero, ergo that enchanted Black Dragon Blade will never again be a black dragon.
True Polymorph. Pretty much the very definition of 'Save or Suck'. Only spell I can readily think of that allows you to permanently eliminate any creature in the game with a single failed Wisdom save regardless of the critter's HP or other abilities (outside legendary resistances, of course).
Gonna take a different approach here and say True Polymorph.
DxJxC did an excellent breakdown of damaging spells (Animate Objects: the genocide spell nobody ever realizes they need in their spell list), but True Polymorph allows your target to make one Wisdom saving throw to avoid being turned into a shiny new coin purse. They don't get to save at the ends of their turns. They don't get to save every seven days. They don't get to save ever again if they miss the first one. Cast True Polymorph, target fails its save, you turn it into a commemorative spoon, and it stays a commemorative spoon until someone thinks to dispel it or until someone hates you enough to destroy your commemorative spoon. You can have an entire collection of commemorative spoons that used to be CR15+ critters.
(EDIT: PLUUUS...a commemorative spoon has a Dex score of 0 and one HP. Cast True Polymorph on critter with huge saves and resistances, turn into spoon. Wait one day. use level 9 spell slot to cast Meteor Swarm on the spoon, which fails its Dex save because it's a spoon. The spoon form absorbs one point of damage; everything else transfers to the original creature at full strength, no save because the spoon already failed the save against the spell. Good-bye, whatever problematic thing your dead commemorative spoon used to be.)
Or, if you're persuasive enough, you can convince your DM to let you enchant the sword that used to be an ancient black dragon. An enchanted weapon cannot be destroyed, ergo its HP cannot be reduced to zero, ergo that enchanted Black Dragon Blade will never again be a black dragon.
True Polymorph. Pretty much the very definition of 'Save or Suck'. Only spell I can readily think of that allows you to permanently eliminate any creature in the game with a single failed Wisdom save regardless of the critter's HP or other abilities (outside legendary resistances, of course).
Disintegrate does a very respectable 107.5 (19d6+40) force damage, single target, DEX save or suck
The iconic level 9 attack spell meteor swarm does an incredible 140 (40d6) fire/bludgeoning damage, huge AOE, DEX save for half
Prismatic wall (assuming an enemy is dumb enough to walk right through it) does a potential 175 (50d6) of various damage and some other nasty effects, obstacle, 5 DEX save or sucks for each 10d6
A couple of spells with damage that adds up over time:
Crown of stars 9 attacks (1 per bonus action per turn) that do 23 (4d12) radiant damage on hit, totaling 207 (36d12) potential damage.
Arcane hand/Bigby's hand creates a for 1 minute, and can attack for 54 (12d8) force damage on hit per bonus action per turn, totaling 540 (120d8) potential damage.
Animate objects creates 18 tiny constructs for 1 minute, each can attack for 6.5 (1d4+4) damage on hit, all 18 per bonus action per turn for 117 (18d4+72) damage per turn, totaling 1170 (180d4+720) potential damage
The hand and objects also disappear if they run out of HP, but they do a lot of damage very fast, and if they absorb a bunch of attacks for you at the same time, then they more then did their job.
I didn't go through every spell, but animate objects is probably the best for taking out a single target.
Just to comment on Animate Objects... you don't actually need to use a Bonus action each turn. The animated objects will follow a simple command until completion... so if you assign them to attack a specific target using a bonus action, if it survives the first round of combat the objects will continue to attack until the target dies. You only need to use the bonus action to switch them to a different target (otherwise they just float there waiting for instructions). So you can actually combine Animate Objects and Crown of Stars at the same time (since crown of stars isn't concentration)
Just to comment on Animate Objects... you don't actually need to use a Bonus action each turn. The animated objects will follow a simple command until completion... so if you assign them to attack a specific target using a bonus action, if it survives the first round of combat the objects will continue to attack until the target dies. You only need to use the bonus action to switch them to a different target (otherwise they just float there waiting for instructions). So you can actually combine Animate Objects and Crown of Stars at the same time (since crown of stars isn't concentration)
I didn't catch that. That's amazing. A wizard could be doing well over 160 damage per turn without expending any more slots after setup.
Yeah, that's my go-to combo for my Lore Bard... my turn takes forever because I usually toss in a high level scorching ray, so there's like... a dozen + rolls every round.
If you or an ally has created a damaging area of effect and the enemy is standing in this damaging area of effect, then Forcecage is a pretty brutal way to kill an enemy.
High level has to be wish as you can cast any spell lower or do anything else and have a 33% chance of it not working after that, but it still works. Blow up the world if ya like.
My other puck is Suggestion. Lasts 8 hours and only one save and low level. It can wreck an encounter very quickly. “I suggest you obey my every command for the next 8 hours your Highness.”
My other puck is Suggestion. Lasts 8 hours and only one save and low level. It can wreck an encounter very quickly. “I suggest you obey my every command for the next 8 hours your Highness.”
This one varies widely depending on your DM. A requirement of the spell is that your suggestion must be worded in a way to make the course of action sound reasonable. If the target is hostile to you, distrusts you, or doesn't know you, then for them to obey your every command isn't reasonable. However, some DMs are very lenient with their players, and they're very permissive about what sounds reasonable.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Since Arj0304 already cast True Resurrection on this thread, I have to say plant growth is amazing. It can be followed with call lightning and grasping vine, and it will take forever for any non-flying enemy to escape. Unfortunately, this is mitigated at higher levels due to freedom of movement and the incredibly named legendary action "move". (Edit: freedom of movement might not actually work RAW)
That isn't super effective, as the damage is based on movement. Additionally, I believe that difficult terrain only adds one extra foot of movement per foot moved. (I'm ready for the semantic argument)
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So I know this is a loaded question, but I’m curious .... assume spells that target a single creature and will be cast using a 9th level spell slot ..... thoughts ? Disintegrate is always my go to kill spell looking to expand my options.
Most people will say wish, but I don't actually like that spell when people say it's so powerful. It has limitations, can't cast any of the other 9th level spells, and you may die, get weakened for days, or never be able to cast it again.
I say that a spell I've seen called invulnerability is the most powerful. Just imagine it. A bard making themselves immune to all damage. A wish can't hurt them, they can't take any damage at all, and its a 9th level spell. The concentration on invulnerability doesn't mean anything, because you can't get hit, and you can cast normal spells. If your level 17 with 9th level spells, the bard can SPAM fireball, the all around overpowered 3rd level spell. They have insane damage output, and invincibility, so they can win any fight, ANY. Not to mention, bards can just use swords.
Also known as CrafterB and DankMemer.
Here, have some homebrew classes! Subclasses to? Why not races. Feats, feats as well. I have a lot of magic items. Lastly I got monsters, fun, fun times.
Invulnerability makes you immune to damage, it does not make you immune to the wide array of other ways of breaking concentration.
Wish, is probably not the most powerful spell, but it is definitely the most versatile.
I think I'd have to go with True Resurrection as my pick.
In terms of damage (all assuming level 9 slots):
A couple of spells with damage that adds up over time:
The hand and objects also disappear if they run out of HP, but they do a lot of damage very fast, and if they absorb a bunch of attacks for you at the same time, then they more then did their job.
I didn't go through every spell, but animate objects is probably the best for taking out a single target.
Healing Spirit cast at level 9. I went there.
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Foresight is a pretty rad spell! Advantage on everything and enemies have disadvantage on attacks? Plus it lasts 8 hours so almost all day AND there's no downside to using it! Sure its a bit more boring that Wish, but Advantage on everything all day is nothing to sneeze at.
Gonna take a different approach here and say True Polymorph.
DxJxC did an excellent breakdown of damaging spells (Animate Objects: the genocide spell nobody ever realizes they need in their spell list), but True Polymorph allows your target to make one Wisdom saving throw to avoid being turned into a shiny new coin purse. They don't get to save at the ends of their turns. They don't get to save every seven days. They don't get to save ever again if they miss the first one. Cast True Polymorph, target fails its save, you turn it into a commemorative spoon, and it stays a commemorative spoon until someone thinks to dispel it or until someone hates you enough to destroy your commemorative spoon. You can have an entire collection of commemorative spoons that used to be CR15+ critters.
(EDIT: PLUUUS...a commemorative spoon has a Dex score of 0 and one HP. Cast True Polymorph on critter with huge saves and resistances, turn into spoon. Wait one day. use level 9 spell slot to cast Meteor Swarm on the spoon, which fails its Dex save because it's a spoon. The spoon form absorbs one point of damage; everything else transfers to the original creature at full strength, no save because the spoon already failed the save against the spell. Good-bye, whatever problematic thing your dead commemorative spoon used to be.)
Or, if you're persuasive enough, you can convince your DM to let you enchant the sword that used to be an ancient black dragon. An enchanted weapon cannot be destroyed, ergo its HP cannot be reduced to zero, ergo that enchanted Black Dragon Blade will never again be a black dragon.
True Polymorph. Pretty much the very definition of 'Save or Suck'. Only spell I can readily think of that allows you to permanently eliminate any creature in the game with a single failed Wisdom save regardless of the critter's HP or other abilities (outside legendary resistances, of course).
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It also works in reverse.
With True Polymorph, you can create an army of up to CR9 creatures from objects. Still subject to Dispel Magic, but if you use another of my favorite spells Nystul's Magic Aura to make them appear non-magical, who would think of trying to dispel your Treants and Young Silver Dragons?
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Healing Spirit, yo. At any level.
Just to comment on Animate Objects... you don't actually need to use a Bonus action each turn. The animated objects will follow a simple command until completion... so if you assign them to attack a specific target using a bonus action, if it survives the first round of combat the objects will continue to attack until the target dies. You only need to use the bonus action to switch them to a different target (otherwise they just float there waiting for instructions). So you can actually combine Animate Objects and Crown of Stars at the same time (since crown of stars isn't concentration)
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I didn't catch that. That's amazing. A wizard could be doing well over 160 damage per turn without expending any more slots after setup.
Yeah, that's my go-to combo for my Lore Bard... my turn takes forever because I usually toss in a high level scorching ray, so there's like... a dozen + rolls every round.
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And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
If you or an ally has created a damaging area of effect and the enemy is standing in this damaging area of effect, then Forcecage is a pretty brutal way to kill an enemy.
High level has to be wish as you can cast any spell lower or do anything else and have a 33% chance of it not working after that, but it still works. Blow up the world if ya like.
My other puck is Suggestion. Lasts 8 hours and only one save and low level. It can wreck an encounter very quickly. “I suggest you obey my every command for the next 8 hours your Highness.”
This one varies widely depending on your DM. A requirement of the spell is that your suggestion must be worded in a way to make the course of action sound reasonable. If the target is hostile to you, distrusts you, or doesn't know you, then for them to obey your every command isn't reasonable. However, some DMs are very lenient with their players, and they're very permissive about what sounds reasonable.
Yeah, I'd probably rule that "Suggestion to get 8 hours of free suggestions" doesn't work. It's not an action you're telling the other person to do.
You could probably get a person to run away from a combat, though.
...darned thread necromancer
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
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Since Arj0304 already cast True Resurrection on this thread, I have to say plant growth is amazing. It can be followed with call lightning and grasping vine, and it will take forever for any non-flying enemy to escape. Unfortunately, this is mitigated at higher levels due to freedom of movement and the incredibly named legendary action "move". (Edit: freedom of movement might not actually work RAW)
You have to add Spike Growth to that combo.
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That isn't super effective, as the damage is based on movement. Additionally, I believe that difficult terrain only adds one extra foot of movement per foot moved. (I'm ready for the semantic argument)