Hi guys, I'm a new DM (I've only been playing Dungeons and Dragons for about a year) and I have a couple questions regarding how other DMs address some of the issues I'm facing.
Background info:
A couple weeks ago, my discord group and I started a side-campaign loosely based off of Made in Abyss (3.5e). In it, they descend further into the abyss, facing different environments and creatures. This page summarizes the setting pretty well.
They've made it down into the third layer, which causes hallucinations when trying to ascend. I decided to switch it up and had them all hallucinate about being trapped in a sort-of talent show- which involved a questionnaire, a fashion show, and a talent show (they were unconscious in the real world). Once they all completed the talent show, they woke up and found themselves in a small dungeon, at the end of which was another game I made where the players had to dance to gain points (they had to describe their dances in turn, and based on the description I made a DC of dex, perform, tumble, etc.)
The problem:
The switch-up from traditional dungeon-crawling and puzzle-solving was very well received by two of my players, both of which really got a kick out of the dance game (the highlight of which was that one of my players started dancing tango with his sentient cape). However, my third player- a rogue- didn't enjoy any of it. During the talent show hallucination, he kept trying to escape. I let him roll an escape artist check, but since it was a hallucination and the party was unconscious, he just escaped into a void. I didn't really know how to handle that specific situation. Later, at the dancing game, he was very reluctant to even participate- that is, until the wizard used charm person to get him to. He ended up in second place, which rewarded him with a bevy of treasure. Still, he ranted about how he really didn't enjoy any games, he also didn't enjoy any puzzles I made in the dungeon as well. I explained to him that I wanted to do something different from what we've been doing so far, which mainly consists of fighting monsters and simple survival. I also pointed out that they had three encounters weaved into the dungeon.
The Questions:
My questions to you all are:
How could I have handled the talent show situation better?- I'm pretty sure I can be accused of railroading in this instance.
What do you do when a player acts very contrary to the rest of the party?- Throughout the session, the rogue wanted to do something the rest of the party really didn't want to
What other alternatives do you guys have for combat?- My group is pretty new to DnD, so I try to limit them in some small capacity to make them think outside the box instead of them just charging in and standing in one spot for 30 minutes as they kill a monster.
How can I get my players to role-play more?- This is a problem that persists throughout all my players
Conclusion:
I am aware that not everyone will be happy all the time; however, my player ranting at me made me question how I could mitigate the "fun gap" between my players. I appreciate any and all feedback. Even if you answer just one question, I would be most grateful. Thank you in advance!
So you have a particularly normal set of problems but difficult for some GMs to overcome, depending on how receptive your players are to doing things they aren't exactly thrilled with for the sake of everyone at the table getting a little of what they want out of the game.
So I'll discuss the 'How to get people to role play' part first, since there are two great videos on the topic on GM Tips. The first is Matt Mercer's quick video when he first started doing GM tips, the second is Satine Phoenix' video which goes into a little more detail.
There's also one more I'd like to link that I think is good for incentivizing proper role play. The gentleman she interviews uses what I started calling a Take 20 die in my campaign, but I can't remember of the top of my head what he called it. But for when the party role plays well or does something they know out of character that will be detrimental to their health, without going overboard with it, the party gets a take 20 die.
Alright, your second issue of the fun gap. Unfortunately, they don't delve a lot into a split party on this but there is one video that I thought might help a little.
With getting to know your players, you can kind of start thinking of ways to involve all of them.
With your specific incident where the rogue just wanted to slay things but the others wanted a puzzle, why not do both?
What if the rogue gets separated from the party with a dropping gate or a pitfall that puts him into the lair of a monstrosity. He has plenty of places to hide but doesn't seem to have a way to get out. Up above the other two see what is clearly a puzzle that is meant to be involved somehow, but not sure exactly what it does. Maybe there's two, one to raise the stairs and one to burn everything within the pit (This runs a lot of risk however).
Or perhaps part of this carnival of sorts, there is a knife throwing puzzle. One where he needs to make attack rolls and a clear defined goal. Perhaps he'd like to make a rule of cool moment and end in a flourish of throwing several daggers at once. Maybe let him. That sort of thing really gets one of my players super excited (I have to mitigate how often and on what he does this with however) but that one moment where he can do something awesome that he talks about for sessions to come really gets them into the whole spirit of the game.
Consider what your rogue can do and organize puzzle challenges that make it obvious the sort of skill set he has would be perfect. Perhaps a heist that he is being asked to organize where HE needs to consider what his party can do. If the party just goes in guns ablaze, it would be detrimental to person asking them for help, but a bigger reward if they can get through it without being detected.
But also pull him aside maybe and just let him know that hey, there's a lot going on in the campaign and sometimes you have to pay attention to the wants and needs of the others and you are going to try and have it inclusive to him/her as well but sometimes it's just not going to work out that way.
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You only lose if you die. Any time else, there's opportunity for a come back.
Following on from some of the above suggestions, if it’s like a talent show, perhaps the rogue escaped into some hellish backstage where he must overcome thr bouncers to leave by the back door.
but for future, you’ll have to figure out how much rp the rogue player is willing to go along with. The previous post appears to be fairly comprehensive on spurces of tips for that matter.
Thank you for this in-depth post! Your suggestions actually gave me a good number of Ideas for future sessions. I particularly liked Mercer's point on asking the players how their characters would portray their thoughts. I also like the idea of setting traps with puzzles as a key.
Youre welcome. Let us know how it goes and if he gives any more suggestions. It can always be useful for people who are having the same issue in the future if they search and find this post.
I tend to include a lot of "lock and key" type puzzles. The players need to access an area but the only way to do so is to find clues or objects that help activate the entryway.
I have an entire YouTube channel that is dedicated to D&D type puzzles if you want to take a look D&D Puzzles for 5E - Wally DMI'm sure there would be something there that should help keep your Rogue interested and provide a balance for your players. Especially if you hide the clues or objects in areas that are trapped or locked away in areas that allow the Rogue to use his skillset.
Good luck! I'm always glad to see DMs using puzzles in their games. :)
I think the main thing to keep in mind is that not every player will enjoy the game all of the time. Getting over this is a really important part of DMing. There are a lot of different ways to enjoy the game, and switching things up is really helpful to keep people engaged, but sometimes it will fail - and other times it will succeed but not for everyone. This is not a lot different from giving each player a chance "in the spotlight" - this requires that the other players step back to allow that character to be the focus. I think the main thing with your players is to be clear that you're not going to be doing dungeon crawls all the time, but neither are you going to be re-doing a "talent show", so it would be helpful if everyone kept open minds but you're still playing D&D.
In my opinion, you did nothing wrong, nor could you have done something dramatically differently - the main thing is to just accept that trying new things is scary, difficult, and risky. Count yourself lucky that two-thirds of your players had a blast, and reassure the third that there will be other sessions that they will enjoy more.
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Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
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Hi guys, I'm a new DM (I've only been playing Dungeons and Dragons for about a year) and I have a couple questions regarding how other DMs address some of the issues I'm facing.
Background info:
A couple weeks ago, my discord group and I started a side-campaign loosely based off of Made in Abyss (3.5e). In it, they descend further into the abyss, facing different environments and creatures. This page summarizes the setting pretty well.
They've made it down into the third layer, which causes hallucinations when trying to ascend. I decided to switch it up and had them all hallucinate about being trapped in a sort-of talent show- which involved a questionnaire, a fashion show, and a talent show (they were unconscious in the real world). Once they all completed the talent show, they woke up and found themselves in a small dungeon, at the end of which was another game I made where the players had to dance to gain points (they had to describe their dances in turn, and based on the description I made a DC of dex, perform, tumble, etc.)
The problem:
The switch-up from traditional dungeon-crawling and puzzle-solving was very well received by two of my players, both of which really got a kick out of the dance game (the highlight of which was that one of my players started dancing tango with his sentient cape). However, my third player- a rogue- didn't enjoy any of it. During the talent show hallucination, he kept trying to escape. I let him roll an escape artist check, but since it was a hallucination and the party was unconscious, he just escaped into a void. I didn't really know how to handle that specific situation. Later, at the dancing game, he was very reluctant to even participate- that is, until the wizard used charm person to get him to. He ended up in second place, which rewarded him with a bevy of treasure. Still, he ranted about how he really didn't enjoy any games, he also didn't enjoy any puzzles I made in the dungeon as well. I explained to him that I wanted to do something different from what we've been doing so far, which mainly consists of fighting monsters and simple survival. I also pointed out that they had three encounters weaved into the dungeon.
The Questions:
My questions to you all are:
How could I have handled the talent show situation better?- I'm pretty sure I can be accused of railroading in this instance.
What do you do when a player acts very contrary to the rest of the party?- Throughout the session, the rogue wanted to do something the rest of the party really didn't want to
What other alternatives do you guys have for combat?- My group is pretty new to DnD, so I try to limit them in some small capacity to make them think outside the box instead of them just charging in and standing in one spot for 30 minutes as they kill a monster.
How can I get my players to role-play more?- This is a problem that persists throughout all my players
Conclusion:
I am aware that not everyone will be happy all the time; however, my player ranting at me made me question how I could mitigate the "fun gap" between my players. I appreciate any and all feedback. Even if you answer just one question, I would be most grateful. Thank you in advance!
-Dairao
So you have a particularly normal set of problems but difficult for some GMs to overcome, depending on how receptive your players are to doing things they aren't exactly thrilled with for the sake of everyone at the table getting a little of what they want out of the game.
So I'll discuss the 'How to get people to role play' part first, since there are two great videos on the topic on GM Tips. The first is Matt Mercer's quick video when he first started doing GM tips, the second is Satine Phoenix' video which goes into a little more detail.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srsSEIb-Bw4&t=0s&list=PL7atuZxmT9570U87GhK_20NcbxM43vkom&index=11
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQZR4smjUEc&t=0s&list=PL7atuZxmT9570U87GhK_20NcbxM43vkom&index=31
There's also one more I'd like to link that I think is good for incentivizing proper role play. The gentleman she interviews uses what I started calling a Take 20 die in my campaign, but I can't remember of the top of my head what he called it. But for when the party role plays well or does something they know out of character that will be detrimental to their health, without going overboard with it, the party gets a take 20 die.
The part I'm specifically referring to is at 9:29
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljb8-_Mr__c&t=0s&list=PL7atuZxmT9570U87GhK_20NcbxM43vkom&index=27
Alright, your second issue of the fun gap. Unfortunately, they don't delve a lot into a split party on this but there is one video that I thought might help a little.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_hKVyFCIe4&t=0s&list=PL7atuZxmT9570U87GhK_20NcbxM43vkom&index=33
With getting to know your players, you can kind of start thinking of ways to involve all of them.
With your specific incident where the rogue just wanted to slay things but the others wanted a puzzle, why not do both?
What if the rogue gets separated from the party with a dropping gate or a pitfall that puts him into the lair of a monstrosity. He has plenty of places to hide but doesn't seem to have a way to get out. Up above the other two see what is clearly a puzzle that is meant to be involved somehow, but not sure exactly what it does. Maybe there's two, one to raise the stairs and one to burn everything within the pit (This runs a lot of risk however).
Or perhaps part of this carnival of sorts, there is a knife throwing puzzle. One where he needs to make attack rolls and a clear defined goal. Perhaps he'd like to make a rule of cool moment and end in a flourish of throwing several daggers at once. Maybe let him. That sort of thing really gets one of my players super excited (I have to mitigate how often and on what he does this with however) but that one moment where he can do something awesome that he talks about for sessions to come really gets them into the whole spirit of the game.
Consider what your rogue can do and organize puzzle challenges that make it obvious the sort of skill set he has would be perfect. Perhaps a heist that he is being asked to organize where HE needs to consider what his party can do. If the party just goes in guns ablaze, it would be detrimental to person asking them for help, but a bigger reward if they can get through it without being detected.
But also pull him aside maybe and just let him know that hey, there's a lot going on in the campaign and sometimes you have to pay attention to the wants and needs of the others and you are going to try and have it inclusive to him/her as well but sometimes it's just not going to work out that way.
You only lose if you die. Any time else, there's opportunity for a come back.
Following on from some of the above suggestions, if it’s like a talent show, perhaps the rogue escaped into some hellish backstage where he must overcome thr bouncers to leave by the back door.
but for future, you’ll have to figure out how much rp the rogue player is willing to go along with. The previous post appears to be fairly comprehensive on spurces of tips for that matter.
Thank you for this in-depth post! Your suggestions actually gave me a good number of Ideas for future sessions. I particularly liked Mercer's point on asking the players how their characters would portray their thoughts. I also like the idea of setting traps with puzzles as a key.
Again, thank you so much for the reply!
Youre welcome. Let us know how it goes and if he gives any more suggestions. It can always be useful for people who are having the same issue in the future if they search and find this post.
You only lose if you die. Any time else, there's opportunity for a come back.
I tend to include a lot of "lock and key" type puzzles. The players need to access an area but the only way to do so is to find clues or objects that help activate the entryway.
I have an entire YouTube channel that is dedicated to D&D type puzzles if you want to take a look D&D Puzzles for 5E - Wally DM I'm sure there would be something there that should help keep your Rogue interested and provide a balance for your players. Especially if you hide the clues or objects in areas that are trapped or locked away in areas that allow the Rogue to use his skillset.
Good luck! I'm always glad to see DMs using puzzles in their games. :)
I have a YouTube channel with 5th Edition D&D Puzzles, Character Creations, DM Tips and Quests ideas. Check it out!
Wally DM on YouTube
If everybody enjoys the exploration/ combat, and not everybody enjoys the whimsical puzzles, then stick to the former
I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
I think the main thing to keep in mind is that not every player will enjoy the game all of the time. Getting over this is a really important part of DMing. There are a lot of different ways to enjoy the game, and switching things up is really helpful to keep people engaged, but sometimes it will fail - and other times it will succeed but not for everyone. This is not a lot different from giving each player a chance "in the spotlight" - this requires that the other players step back to allow that character to be the focus. I think the main thing with your players is to be clear that you're not going to be doing dungeon crawls all the time, but neither are you going to be re-doing a "talent show", so it would be helpful if everyone kept open minds but you're still playing D&D.
In my opinion, you did nothing wrong, nor could you have done something dramatically differently - the main thing is to just accept that trying new things is scary, difficult, and risky. Count yourself lucky that two-thirds of your players had a blast, and reassure the third that there will be other sessions that they will enjoy more.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.