I'm determined to get a familiar for my rouge from level 1. (That's a red-line so multi-classing is not possible - also not looking to start as a wizard either). This I can accomplish either with magic initiate or ritual caster using the variant human level one feat. Trying to weigh up which is the better choice.
Magic initiate is 3 spells and that's all, ritual you start with 2 but I can learn more, but I also need to have int/wis 13+, not a huge deal but it does slightly effect my starting array (Standard)
I'm determined to get a familiar for my rouge from level 1. (That's a red-line so multi-classing is not possible - also not looking to start as a wizard either). This I can accomplish either with magic initiate or ritual caster using the variant human level one feat. Trying to weigh up which is the better choice.
Magic initiate is 3 spells and that's all, ritual you start with 2 but I can learn more, but I also need to have int/wis 13+, not a huge deal but it does slightly effect my starting array (Standard)
Any thoughts advice?
The spells you get are going to be very different
Taking Magic Initiate gives you some combat spell options if you want them. A saving throw-based cantrip can be handy for when your weapon attacks aren't effective for whatever reason -- I'm partial to frostbite as a spell that can help get a caster out of a tight melee spot, but that's less of a priority for a rogue once you hit 2nd level and get Cunning Action, so you can go for one of the heavier damage options. Or you can stick with utility cantrips -- your mage hand won't be as useful as a true Arcane Trickster's, but it's still nice to have
Ritual Caster, on the other hand, will get you more powerful spells in the long run, but they will be generally pure utility (depending on what you DM lets your familiar get away with). detect magic and/or identify are always going to be useful, and depending on what type of rogue you plan to be, comprehend languages can also have a ton of utility. Or you can call up an unseen servant to wander down a hall and see if there are any tripwires you missed. Later on, of course, you can add on stuff like water breathing and tiny hut
Ritual Caster is going to give you more options in the long run, assuming your DM gives you opportunities to add to your list, but if it's a very combat-focused character or campaign, those options might not have much value for you. A combo like toll the dead and shape water or whatever might turn out to be spells you use a lot more often
You can also just let your general character concept guide you. Is your rogue more bookish or analytical, and the kind of character who's going to be pulling out a tome to do some ritual magic? Or are they a less thinking, more doing sort? What subclass you're aiming for can help here too -- an Inquisitor might fit the first description better, while most people's idea of a Swashbuckler fits the second
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
(Magic Initiate) Find Familiar vs (Ritual Caster) Find Familiar
Magic Initiate has the limitation of 1 cast per day, Ritual Caster as the caveat of a 10 Minute cast.
This is something that can be easily pre-casted so the initial 10 minute cast isn't a huge inconvenience however, if the familiar is killed as-long-as it was summon the previous day or prior, this could be re-cast in combat. To me this seems like a minor up for Ritual Caster.
Mage hand could be summoned at will, Unseen servant would need to be ritual casted. Either is good for dealing with traps but being able to re-summon the power would be a really big deal. I don't think Mage hand could be damaged either . So one for https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/mage-hand
Ritual Caster is much more useful than Magic Initiate... assuming your DM gives you a way to acquire Spell Scrolls, and especially if you have some means of making sure the scrolls you acquire are for Ritual spells (such as from magic shops selling scrolls). However, not every DM has a lot of scrolls for their games... even pre-written adventures often don't bother with scrolls, and even if your DM does give out scrolls at some point, there's no guarantee that they'll be scrolls for ritual spells.
My recommendation is to ask your DM how likely you are to encounter spell scrolls to help you with your ritual casting... if they don't intend to, you're better off taking Magic Initiate. As well, just asking your DM about it might motivate them to seed a few scrolls into the game world.
As an alternative... if another player in your team is a Wizard, you can just copy any of their ritual spells right from their spellbook whenever you have some downtime. It's not quite as useful in that situation... after all, your wizard already has access to those same ritual spells, so it's kind of redundant for you to have them as well, but that's one way to do it. Alternatively anyone in your party who prepares their spells (like a cleric or druid) can prepare a ritual spell, convert it into a scroll, then copy the scroll into your ritual book... you're just limited to the spells that are also on the Wizard spell list.
If you are planning a melee oriented rogue and not going arcane trickster for subclass at lvl 3, magic initiate gets you access to booming blade cantrip which mechanically is a huge asset to your combat abilities. This would probably be the #1 reason to choose it over ritual caster in my opinion. If you aren't needing that cantrip or will be getting it from another source later, ritual caster can potentially have a lot more impact, but the suggestions to ask your dm about the likelihood of finding other rituals to add to your book is a good one.
I'm determined to get a familiar for my rouge from level 1. (That's a red-line so multi-classing is not possible - also not looking to start as a wizard either). This I can accomplish either with magic initiate or ritual caster using the variant human level one feat. Trying to weigh up which is the better choice.
There are other ways to do this, including Custom Lineage (which is variant human but better) as your race and Strixhaven Initiate (available from the following backgrounds, which I'm limiting to the ones that will include the spell you want: Lorehold Student, Quandrix Student, Witherbloom Student, in addition to being taken normally) as your background.
Magic initiate is 3 spells and that's all, ritual you start with 2 but I can learn more, but I also need to have int/wis 13+, not a huge deal but it does slightly effect my starting array (Standard)
Any thoughts advice?
Being stuck with standard array is definitely bad, but it shouldn't impact your choices, because your best starting statline is Dex 15 Con 14 Wis 13 Int 12 Cha 10 Str 8 anyway.
Will your DM let you just take Strixhaven Initiate [Quandrix]? It's way better than Magic Initiate.
Personally I’d go Ritual Caster, unless as mentioned above, you really want Booming Blade. Your spell casting ability will probably be not that great and spells that use that score for to hit or saving throw rolls is going to lose its luster as you level up.
I personally think the Booming Blade is broken. The way it scales is far outside the norm for cantrips.
At 5th level you get the weapons base damage plus 1d8 damage plus 2d8 damage if the target moves plus any sneak attack damage plus a possible attack of opportunity if the target moves plus possible critical hits.
It would balance as a first level spell far better.
The fact that everyone wants this cantrip is the best example or it being a bit broken.
I personally think the Booming Blade is broken. The way it scales is far outside the norm for cantrips.
At 5th level you get the weapons base damage plus 1d8 damage plus 2d8 damage if the target moves plus any sneak attack damage plus a possible attack of opportunity if the target moves plus possible critical hits.
It would balance as a first level spell far better.
The fact that everyone wants this cantrip is the best example or it being a bit broken.
I think "everyone wants" is probably inaccurate... but for a Rogue, who only gets one attack per round anyway, and who can disengage as a bonus action... it's just a straight up cost-free boost in damage. If you're a Rogue, the only reason to not get Booming Blade is if you don't have any means of getting a cantrip.
For any other class... it's neat, but not game busting. It does pair well for a Goblin character, since they can disengage as a bonus action as well. I played as a Goblin Bardlock in a game a few years back, and Booming Blade was his go-to Cantrip for the rare occasions where he found himself in melee combat.
For any other class... it's neat, but not game busting. It does pair well for a Goblin character, since they can disengage as a bonus action as well. I played as a Goblin Bardlock in a game a few years back, and Booming Blade was his go-to Cantrip for the rare occasions where he found himself in melee combat.
I don't like Booming Blade just because it seems hastily thrown together and is more like a neat mechanic in desperate search of coherent flavor rather than a real spell, but on it's own it's fine
It's when you start doing the BB + PAM + Crusher combo stuff that it gets silly
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
As an alternative... if another player in your team is a Wizard, you can just copy any of their ritual spells right from their spellbook whenever you have some downtime. It's not quite as useful in that situation... after all, your wizard already has access to those same ritual spells, so it's kind of redundant for you to have them as well, but that's one way to do it. Alternatively anyone in your party who prepares their spells (like a cleric or druid) can prepare a ritual spell, convert it into a scroll, then copy the scroll into your ritual book... you're just limited to the spells that are also on the Wizard spell list.
There are some ritual spells that are actually useful to have more than one character capable of casting: Alarm lets you set up a larger defensive perimeter, Phantom Steed only works for one person anyway, Comprehend Languages lets you double-up on research, and if you ever find yourself needing Water Walk or Water Breathing it's always nice if more than one character can cast them.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
The thing i like about ritual caster is it allows you to learn new spells like wizards do (kinda), and most of those spells are good out-of-combat utility that help rogues be more skill monkey.
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Hi,
I'm determined to get a familiar for my rouge from level 1. (That's a red-line so multi-classing is not possible - also not looking to start as a wizard either). This I can accomplish either with magic initiate or ritual caster using the variant human level one feat. Trying to weigh up which is the better choice.
Magic initiate is 3 spells and that's all, ritual you start with 2 but I can learn more, but I also need to have int/wis 13+, not a huge deal but it does slightly effect my starting array (Standard)
Any thoughts advice?
As a Rogue you might want INT for Investigation anyway (or WIS for Perception).
The spells you get are going to be very different
Taking Magic Initiate gives you some combat spell options if you want them. A saving throw-based cantrip can be handy for when your weapon attacks aren't effective for whatever reason -- I'm partial to frostbite as a spell that can help get a caster out of a tight melee spot, but that's less of a priority for a rogue once you hit 2nd level and get Cunning Action, so you can go for one of the heavier damage options. Or you can stick with utility cantrips -- your mage hand won't be as useful as a true Arcane Trickster's, but it's still nice to have
Ritual Caster, on the other hand, will get you more powerful spells in the long run, but they will be generally pure utility (depending on what you DM lets your familiar get away with). detect magic and/or identify are always going to be useful, and depending on what type of rogue you plan to be, comprehend languages can also have a ton of utility. Or you can call up an unseen servant to wander down a hall and see if there are any tripwires you missed. Later on, of course, you can add on stuff like water breathing and tiny hut
Ritual Caster is going to give you more options in the long run, assuming your DM gives you opportunities to add to your list, but if it's a very combat-focused character or campaign, those options might not have much value for you. A combo like toll the dead and shape water or whatever might turn out to be spells you use a lot more often
You can also just let your general character concept guide you. Is your rogue more bookish or analytical, and the kind of character who's going to be pulling out a tome to do some ritual magic? Or are they a less thinking, more doing sort? What subclass you're aiming for can help here too -- an Inquisitor might fit the first description better, while most people's idea of a Swashbuckler fits the second
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Magic initiate
Bram Quikfoot fractured.
So here's my analysis
(Magic Initiate) Find Familiar vs (Ritual Caster) Find Familiar
Magic Initiate has the limitation of 1 cast per day, Ritual Caster as the caveat of a 10 Minute cast.
This is something that can be easily pre-casted so the initial 10 minute cast isn't a huge inconvenience however, if the familiar is killed as-long-as it was summon the previous day or prior, this could be re-cast in combat. To me this seems like a minor up for Ritual Caster.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/mage-hand (Magic Initiate) vs https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/unseen-servant
Mage hand requires actions, Unseen servant uses bonus actions. - Seems like one for https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/unseen-servant
Mage hand could be summoned at will, Unseen servant would need to be ritual casted. Either is good for dealing with traps but being able to re-summon the power would be a really big deal. I don't think Mage hand could be damaged either . So one for https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/mage-hand
Rage 30ft vs 60ft - One for https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/unseen-servant
Action it can do - Seems like a draw or as near as makes no difference
The 2nd cantrip i would take would be https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/booming-blade
It's essentially an extra D8 damage per round as part of a weapon attack that scales as I level.
So it's https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/booming-blade vs Any other spell I might get in the campaign, ritually cast.
That's a win for the later.
Seems like the burden is for Ritual caster - Anyone have any counter points... or agreement?
Ritual Caster is much more useful than Magic Initiate... assuming your DM gives you a way to acquire Spell Scrolls, and especially if you have some means of making sure the scrolls you acquire are for Ritual spells (such as from magic shops selling scrolls). However, not every DM has a lot of scrolls for their games... even pre-written adventures often don't bother with scrolls, and even if your DM does give out scrolls at some point, there's no guarantee that they'll be scrolls for ritual spells.
My recommendation is to ask your DM how likely you are to encounter spell scrolls to help you with your ritual casting... if they don't intend to, you're better off taking Magic Initiate. As well, just asking your DM about it might motivate them to seed a few scrolls into the game world.
As an alternative... if another player in your team is a Wizard, you can just copy any of their ritual spells right from their spellbook whenever you have some downtime. It's not quite as useful in that situation... after all, your wizard already has access to those same ritual spells, so it's kind of redundant for you to have them as well, but that's one way to do it. Alternatively anyone in your party who prepares their spells (like a cleric or druid) can prepare a ritual spell, convert it into a scroll, then copy the scroll into your ritual book... you're just limited to the spells that are also on the Wizard spell list.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
If you are planning a melee oriented rogue and not going arcane trickster for subclass at lvl 3, magic initiate gets you access to booming blade cantrip which mechanically is a huge asset to your combat abilities. This would probably be the #1 reason to choose it over ritual caster in my opinion. If you aren't needing that cantrip or will be getting it from another source later, ritual caster can potentially have a lot more impact, but the suggestions to ask your dm about the likelihood of finding other rituals to add to your book is a good one.
There are other ways to do this, including Custom Lineage (which is variant human but better) as your race and Strixhaven Initiate (available from the following backgrounds, which I'm limiting to the ones that will include the spell you want: Lorehold Student, Quandrix Student, Witherbloom Student, in addition to being taken normally) as your background.
Being stuck with standard array is definitely bad, but it shouldn't impact your choices, because your best starting statline is Dex 15 Con 14 Wis 13 Int 12 Cha 10 Str 8 anyway.
Will your DM let you just take Strixhaven Initiate [Quandrix]? It's way better than Magic Initiate.
Personally I’d go Ritual Caster, unless as mentioned above, you really want Booming Blade. Your spell casting ability will probably be not that great and spells that use that score for to hit or saving throw rolls is going to lose its luster as you level up.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Ritual caster.
I personally think the Booming Blade is broken. The way it scales is far outside the norm for cantrips.
At 5th level you get the weapons base damage plus 1d8 damage plus 2d8 damage if the target moves plus any sneak attack damage plus a possible attack of opportunity if the target moves plus possible critical hits.
It would balance as a first level spell far better.
The fact that everyone wants this cantrip is the best example or it being a bit broken.
I've never wanted it on my divination wizard.
I think "everyone wants" is probably inaccurate... but for a Rogue, who only gets one attack per round anyway, and who can disengage as a bonus action... it's just a straight up cost-free boost in damage. If you're a Rogue, the only reason to not get Booming Blade is if you don't have any means of getting a cantrip.
For any other class... it's neat, but not game busting. It does pair well for a Goblin character, since they can disengage as a bonus action as well. I played as a Goblin Bardlock in a game a few years back, and Booming Blade was his go-to Cantrip for the rare occasions where he found himself in melee combat.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
I don't like Booming Blade just because it seems hastily thrown together and is more like a neat mechanic in desperate search of coherent flavor rather than a real spell, but on it's own it's fine
It's when you start doing the BB + PAM + Crusher combo stuff that it gets silly
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
There are some ritual spells that are actually useful to have more than one character capable of casting: Alarm lets you set up a larger defensive perimeter, Phantom Steed only works for one person anyway, Comprehend Languages lets you double-up on research, and if you ever find yourself needing Water Walk or Water Breathing it's always nice if more than one character can cast them.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
So I've spoken to my table(s) a lot.
Bizzarley the answer in my case is magic initiate. Our group just doesn't bother with spell books.
So the answer dear reader, is ask your DM if s/he's going to put spell books in the game for players or not.
The thing i like about ritual caster is it allows you to learn new spells like wizards do (kinda), and most of those spells are good out-of-combat utility that help rogues be more skill monkey.