- only caster in party, campaign isn't combat-heavy.
- focusing on utility/support, knowledge and face stuff.
next level between replacing and adding spells, was thinking about adding both counterspell and dispel.
too much of one kind of spell to add at one time? or are they both so essential that i really should just take them asap? i know the situations in which they're both used.
if not both, I'll take 1 + my first crowd control spell. cheers 🍻
Dispel Magic and Counterspell have different use, one can be used when a creaure cast an instantaneous spell and the other can be used to dispel a spell with lasting effect. Depending on how frequently in the campaign you encounter those it may help advise your choice as the two are useful on their own.
thanks, yeah I'm pretty aware of their uses, i just see that they're both often recommended as essential in a party, but as the only caster there's a lot of bases I'm trying to cover. so it's like, both of them are said to be top tier huge benefit, but taking both would cost me effective crowd control (or maybe summons?) for a level. I'm playing with 2 melees and an arcane trickster. out of combat it's an investigator, a thief and a scout/face kinda.
Warlock is very different. It is NOT a primary spellcaster. With so few spells slots and spells known, I would not learn both of them. Counterspell is in general a slightly better spell, if only because not all casters do have it. It is a defensive spell rather than a restorative spell.
Often, it makes more sense for you to simply buy and hold on to a scroll of Dispel Magic rather than learning it. If you really need it, read the scroll.
The real question is: Do you have proficiency in Arcana?
Then ask your DM if you can make a proficiency Arcana check to identify a spell being cast as a free action before using your reaction to Counterspell. Even if he merely lets you get the school and level of the spell being cast, it makes strategic use of Counterspell much more powerful.
If your DM allows this, then definitely get Counterspell. Better spell, not easily duplicatable via scrolls, far more useful.
Mog makes good points. I’d add, counterspell can be a can of worms. This is a bit meta gaming, but sometimes it starts an arms race with the DM, and people counterspelling your counterspell. Or just counter spelling your already limited castings. You don’t have the spell slots to win that sort of contest. It might be better to not put the idea in your DMs head. Or maybe it already is in their head, really very table dependent.
Often, it makes more sense for you to simply buy and hold on to a scroll of Dispel Magic rather than learning it. If you really need it, read the scroll.
The real question is: Do you have proficiency in Arcana?
Thanks so much Mog 😀
We're playing in a "whisked away to another plane" story so not sure how often we'll find access to scrolls. Also we don't find money, which is fine.
I do have proficiency there, I'll definitely try that route, our DM is laid back. Thanks again.
Xalthu, interesting take. I think she emphasis our exploration and "intrigue" stuff more so I don't get the vibe she'd supe up the monsters too much for me. Cheers.
I feel like I'll tentatively think about Counter + Hadar, unless someone tells me summons are more useful.
If you're looking at the new summon spells from Tasha's, note the gold cost on the material component of those -- might be hard to acquire, especially if you're not finding money, either. And the remaining Summon Lesser Demons has pitfalls.
If your DM says "The Evil Wizard casts Fireball" counterspell is the number one priorty spell to get
If your DM says "The Evil Wizard casts a spell" but lets to make a free arcana spell to identify it, it is still a top tier spell especially if your arcana is high
If your DM says another party member needs to use their reaction to identfy the spell (RAW in XGTE but I haven't seen 1 DM rule this way) it probably isn't worth taking especially if noone else in the party has decent arcana (very likely if you are the only caster)
Dispel magic is very versatile, from turning a hasted enemy into one that can't move or take actions to turning off a deadly trap. Depending on whether the DM considers it an exhastive list it might also restore a colleague who succombed to feeblemind.
Counterspell can still be useful wether the DM let you identify spell cast or not, whenever an enemy start casting a spell in combat, trying to interrupt it can be good even if there's a chance it fail like many spell often do anyway.
I don’t think there is any real crossover between focussing on a controller or summoner as they play very differently. I have played both and had great fun with both. But yeah, completely different. As a controller you do things like incapacitating your opponents so the melee guys can kill them. As a summoner you kill more bad guys than the rest of the party combined, plus you get to summon giant owls to fly the party over the mountains Gandam #cough Gandalf style. Sleep, Enthral, Hypnotic pattern and Suggestion will get you into and out of places unnoticed whereas a pack of ravaging raptors will not.
It will depend a lot on party composition. If you don’t have any tanky characters, the summon can give you one. It can also give you another ally to help trigger a rogue sneak attack. If you have a lot of party members in melee, it may be difficult to find someplace to target some crowd control spells without hitting allies. But if your allies have evasion, it’s less of a problem.
And if there’s other casters focusing on one, probably you should do the other.
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- only caster in party, campaign isn't combat-heavy.
- focusing on utility/support, knowledge and face stuff.
next level between replacing and adding spells, was thinking about adding both counterspell and dispel.
too much of one kind of spell to add at one time? or are they both so essential that i really should just take them asap? i know the situations in which they're both used.
if not both, I'll take 1 + my first crowd control spell. cheers 🍻
Dispel Magic and Counterspell have different use, one can be used when a creaure cast an instantaneous spell and the other can be used to dispel a spell with lasting effect. Depending on how frequently in the campaign you encounter those it may help advise your choice as the two are useful on their own.
What class are you?
Either way, as Plaguescarred said, they have very different uses, so overlap isn’t really something to worry about.
thanks, yeah I'm pretty aware of their uses, i just see that they're both often recommended as essential in a party, but as the only caster there's a lot of bases I'm trying to cover. so it's like, both of them are said to be top tier huge benefit, but taking both would cost me effective crowd control (or maybe summons?) for a level. I'm playing with 2 melees and an arcane trickster. out of combat it's an investigator, a thief and a scout/face kinda.
thanks xalthu. I'm an undead tomelock w/ bless & familiar, w/out agonizing blast.
if it matters i don't use form of dread yet coz i don't know about it yet.
Warlock is very different. It is NOT a primary spellcaster. With so few spells slots and spells known, I would not learn both of them. Counterspell is in general a slightly better spell, if only because not all casters do have it. It is a defensive spell rather than a restorative spell.
Often, it makes more sense for you to simply buy and hold on to a scroll of Dispel Magic rather than learning it. If you really need it, read the scroll.
The real question is: Do you have proficiency in Arcana?
Then ask your DM if you can make a proficiency Arcana check to identify a spell being cast as a free action before using your reaction to Counterspell. Even if he merely lets you get the school and level of the spell being cast, it makes strategic use of Counterspell much more powerful.
If your DM allows this, then definitely get Counterspell. Better spell, not easily duplicatable via scrolls, far more useful.
I'm of the same opinion as Mog_Dracov with fewer spell list i'd pick only one, Counterspell.
Mog makes good points.
I’d add, counterspell can be a can of worms. This is a bit meta gaming, but sometimes it starts an arms race with the DM, and people counterspelling your counterspell. Or just counter spelling your already limited castings. You don’t have the spell slots to win that sort of contest. It might be better to not put the idea in your DMs head. Or maybe it already is in their head, really very table dependent.
Thanks so much Mog 😀
We're playing in a "whisked away to another plane" story so not sure how often we'll find access to scrolls. Also we don't find money, which is fine.
I do have proficiency there, I'll definitely try that route, our DM is laid back. Thanks again.
Xalthu, interesting take. I think she emphasis our exploration and "intrigue" stuff more so I don't get the vibe she'd supe up the monsters too much for me. Cheers.
I feel like I'll tentatively think about Counter + Hadar, unless someone tells me summons are more useful.
If you're looking at the new summon spells from Tasha's, note the gold cost on the material component of those -- might be hard to acquire, especially if you're not finding money, either. And the remaining Summon Lesser Demons has pitfalls.
Birgit | Shifter | Sorcerer | Dragonlords
Shayone | Hobgoblin | Sorcerer | Netherdeep
Counterspell is very dependent on the DM.
Dispel magic is very versatile, from turning a hasted enemy into one that can't move or take actions to turning off a deadly trap. Depending on whether the DM considers it an exhastive list it might also restore a colleague who succombed to feeblemind.
Counterspell can still be useful wether the DM let you identify spell cast or not, whenever an enemy start casting a spell in combat, trying to interrupt it can be good even if there's a chance it fail like many spell often do anyway.
to pivot a little, does anybody have a take on the usefulness of crowd control vs.summoning? just to help going forward
Summoning is a kind of crowd control, because your summon will occupy its space.
cool yes, i was thinking
- pure crowd control is more clutch more often
- summons can do some cc but are more versatile, have utility + flavor
if you were the main caster and could only take cc spells or summons, which would you be more into?
I don’t think there is any real crossover between focussing on a controller or summoner as they play very differently. I have played both and had great fun with both. But yeah, completely different. As a controller you do things like incapacitating your opponents so the melee guys can kill them. As a summoner you kill more bad guys than the rest of the party combined, plus you get to summon giant owls to fly the party over the mountains Gandam #cough Gandalf style. Sleep, Enthral, Hypnotic pattern and Suggestion will get you into and out of places unnoticed whereas a pack of ravaging raptors will not.
It will depend a lot on party composition. If you don’t have any tanky characters, the summon can give you one. It can also give you another ally to help trigger a rogue sneak attack.
If you have a lot of party members in melee, it may be difficult to find someplace to target some crowd control spells without hitting allies. But if your allies have evasion, it’s less of a problem.
And if there’s other casters focusing on one, probably you should do the other.