So I'm debating between half elf/eladrin (multiverse)/or high elf for a rogue(5, ?swashbuckler)/ bard 1/warlock 4 (hexblade pact of blade, devils sight, improved pact weapon for bow, green flame blade to make up for lost sneak attack, warcaster as level 4 feat)
The first feat he picks up.is elven accuracy.
Faerie fire from bard gives advantage (with hexblade curse critting on 19 or 20, and take the best of 3 rolls for 27% chance of critting and sneak attack)
Hex is disadvantage on one attribute which can be their attack attribute which is huge (prevents a rogue from sneak attacking, because they have disadvantage)
Both are concentration spells
Which is more effective?
I'm leaning toward hex because the rogue could always bonus action hide to get advantage.
Three different things: Faerie Fire, Hex spell and Hex blade's curse
Faerie Fire is by far the best of the three different things. It grants advantage to ALL, not just you, it can affect a group of enemies, it provides light if you need it, and it also cancels invisibility. It will still be worth concentrating on, even at higher levels.
Hex spell is often over-valued. The damage starts out good at first level, but does not increase. Upcasting increases time, not damage. Often it gets used mostly for the ability disadvantage, which is only situationally useful. It does have a longer range, which is useful. Once you get to higher levels,, the extra damage is not worth the concentration at all.
The Hexblade's Curse ability is the second best. Note it is different from the spell. It does Proficiency in extra damage which is not as good as the spell until 10th level, and is weak by that time. The crit range going from 19-20 is a crit build, generally weak compared to other stuff - even if you get Elven Accuracy, and the hit point regain is too little, too late (you get it when you do not need it, not when you do). It is a once per short rest ability.
Yes, if you want to focus on the crit, you want a hex blade warlock with elven accuracy. But such builds tend to be weak. Note, the best way to take advantage of Elven Accuracy tend to be 'bonus damage builds', not more crits.
In that kind of build you focus on getting as many add on damages. Sneak Attack is a prime one. But getting a weapon that does special things on a natural 20 (not a crit) are more important. Vorpal weapons are the best. Instant kill on a natural 20 means you want as many possible chances to get a natural 20, so Elven Accuracy actually begins to matter.
The vorpal double bladed scimitar (ebberon), being welded by an elven rogue with elven accuracy is a prime example of this. Till you get that weapon you can look for other, less powerful ones, such as flame toungue, sword of slashing, etc.
So I'm debating between half elf/eladrin (multiverse)/or high elf for a rogue(5, ?swashbuckler)/ bard 1/warlock 4 (hexblade pact of blade, devils sight, improved pact weapon for bow, green flame blade to make up for lost sneak attack, warcaster as level 4 feat)
The first feat he picks up.is elven accuracy.
Faerie fire from bard gives advantage (with hexblade curse critting on 19 or 20, and take the best of 3 rolls for 27% chance of critting and sneak attack)
Hex is disadvantage on one attribute which can be their attack attribute which is huge (prevents a rogue from sneak attacking, because they have disadvantage)
Both are concentration spells
Which is more effective?
I'm leaning toward hex because the rogue could always bonus action hide to get advantage.
Hex does not penalize attack rolls or saving throws, only ability checks. The best use I've seen in combat for the ability disadvantage is to penalize Strength on creatures who like to Grapple.
So I'm debating between half elf/eladrin (multiverse)/or high elf for a rogue(5, ?swashbuckler)/ bard 1/warlock 4 (hexblade pact of blade, devils sight, improved pact weapon for bow, green flame blade to make up for lost sneak attack, warcaster as level 4 feat)
The first feat he picks up.is elven accuracy.
Faerie fire from bard gives advantage (with hexblade curse critting on 19 or 20, and take the best of 3 rolls for 27% chance of critting and sneak attack)
Hex is disadvantage on one attribute which can be their attack attribute which is huge (prevents a rogue from sneak attacking, because they have disadvantage)
Both are concentration spells
Which is more effective?
I'm leaning toward hex because the rogue could always bonus action hide to get advantage.
Hex does not penalize attack rolls or saving throws, only ability checks. The best use I've seen in combat for the ability disadvantage is to penalize Strength on creatures who like to Grapple.
Ok didn't realize attack rolls weren't ability rolls..... that totally devalues hex from what I thought it did. Thanks for letting me know!
Another question does war caster let you use green flame blade as an AoO? I think it targets a single opponent but then the flames can jump to a neighboring opponent so I'm not sure.
Another question does war caster let you use green flame blade as an AoO? I think it targets a single opponent but then the flames can jump to a neighboring opponent so I'm not sure.
It did when the wording from the Sword Coast Guide was used, but the revised version in Tasha's Cauldron prevents it.
Another question does war caster let you use green flame blade as an AoO? I think it targets a single opponent but then the flames can jump to a neighboring opponent so I'm not sure.
It did when the wording from the Sword Coast Guide was used, but the revised version in Tasha's Cauldron prevents it.
The important thing about Hex is its duration. It's a spell definitely designed for Warlocks, with their very few spell slots... you can cast it once, and as long as you keep concentration on it, the spell lasts for a full hour and can benefit you through multiple combats. It's most useful for someone focused on multiple attacks per round... whether that's as a martial fighter, or as a Warlock casting Eldritch Blast. If you cast it with a 3rd level spell slot you can cast it once at the start of the day and, as long as you can keep concentration, maintain the benefits for an entire adventuring day all off of a single spell slot... you can even take a short rest while still concentrating on Hex to get the spell slot back.
That's the real benefit of Hex. There are plenty of other concentration spells that will have a greater impact on an individual combat. If you're in a battle against a big, dangerous enemy and you've gotta make the choice between Faerie Fire and Hex... Faerie Fire will 100% be the better choice. But if you're coming across a minor challenge early in the day and don't want to burn through all your spell slots too quickly, Hex can potentially save you slots on future challenges.
Another question does war caster let you use green flame blade as an AoO? I think it targets a single opponent but then the flames can jump to a neighboring opponent so I'm not sure.
It did when the wording from the Sword Coast Guide was used, but the revised version in Tasha's Cauldron prevents it.
How so?
This is the Tasha's version: Booming Blade/Green-Flame Blade. As you can see, it's a 5' radius AOE with a Range of Self. Zero spells with a Range of Self are legal to cast with War Caster, per the definitions of a spell's Range and the War Caster feat (all of them target the caster, so none of them target only the creature provoking the OA). For the same reason, the Tasha's version of BB/GFE can't be used with the Twinned Spell metamagic, and for very nearly the same reason (i.e. the Range), neither Tasha's version works with the Distant Spell metamagic.
If you use the SCAG version, then and only then EliasWindrider's question becomes relevant (you can unambigously combine SCAG GFE with War Caster by choosing not to have the fire damage leap to a second creature - the question is whether or not you can combine it while also keeping the secondary damage, which is the same question as whether or not you can make the secondary damage go through/around total cover).
Another question does war caster let you use green flame blade as an AoO? I think it targets a single opponent but then the flames can jump to a neighboring opponent so I'm not sure.
It did when the wording from the Sword Coast Guide was used, but the revised version in Tasha's Cauldron prevents it.
How so?
This is the Tasha's version: Booming Blade/Green-Flame Blade. As you can see, it's a 5' radius AOE with a Range of Self. Zero spells with a Range of Self are legal to cast with War Caster, per the definitions of a spell's Range and the War Caster feat (all of them target the caster, so none of them target only the creature provoking the OA). For the same reason, the Tasha's version of BB/GFE can't be used with the Twinned Spell metamagic, and for very nearly the same reason (i.e. the Range), neither Tasha's version works with the Distant Spell metamagic.
If you use the SCAG version, then and only then EliasWindrider's question becomes relevant (you can unambigously combine SCAG GFE with War Caster by choosing not to have the fire damage leap to a second creature - the question is whether or not you can combine it while also keeping the secondary damage, which is the same question as whether or not you can make the secondary damage go through/around total cover).
The Booming Blade spell continues to work with the War Caster feat
That's not a rules source. Here, I can do the same thing. Here's a non-rules source with deeply untrustworthy information on it confirming BB doesn't work with War Caster. https://sage-advice.fandom.com/wiki/Booming_blade
The Booming Blade spell continues to work with the War Caster feat
That's not a rules source. Here, I can do the same thing. Here's a non-rules source with deeply untrustworthy information on it confirming BB doesn't work with War Caster. https://sage-advice.fandom.com/wiki/Booming_blade
"A typical spell requires you to pick one or more targets to be affected by the spell’s magic. A spell’s description tells you whether the spell targets creatures, objects, or a point of origin for an area of effect"
And the description for booming blade says "You brandish the weapon used in the spell’s casting and make a melee attack with it against one creature within 5 feet of you. On a hit, the target suffers the weapon attack’s normal effects and..." which clearly indicates that the creature you attack is the spell's target.
"Self" in the range/area section of the spell indicates that the caster is the point of origin. While a spell's point of origin can be a target, like with Fireball...nothing in Booming Blade (or Green-Flame Blade) indicates that the point of origin is targetted, in any way. Booming Blade has only one target: the creature hit by the attack. It works with War Caster.
The caster is not a target, nothing in the rules says they must be a target, and it is silly to assume they are, especially when the lead designer repeatedly explains that they aren't. Where do you get the idea that range/area is specifying the target? It is merely stating that the target must be within 5 feet of the point of origin, and the point of origin is the caster. The target must be within the range/area; that is all.
War Caster: When a hostile creature's movement provokes an opportunity attack from you, you can use your reaction to cast a spell at the creature, rather than making an opportunity attack. The spell must have a casting time of 1 action and must target only that creature.
Booming Blade (1 action to cast): You brandish the weapon used in the spell’s casting and make a melee attack with it against one creature within 5 feet of you.
There's really no ambiguity here. When the range portion says self, that only means you're the point of origin. When the area says self, now you're the target. Notice Armor of Agathys only says "self" since it applies to both, and the caster is the target.
What's "better" for 2 ASI's (2 levels apart, Rogue 10 AND 12): a double bump to SAD characteristic (CHA) and the alert feat VS the Telepathic and resilience feats (both bumping CHA, resilience gains proficiency in the saving throw)
Note character gets cha and dex added to initiative already (rogue swashbuckler). Starting attributes after racial mods are
10, 14, 14, 10, 12, 16
Character is summer eladrin (monster's of multiverse version) rogue(X)/bard(1)/hexblade warlock(4) with devils sight and improved pact weapon (long bow) with a rapier with ruby of warmage as hex weapon. First 4 level are rogue and he picks up elven accuracy (bumps cha to 17), level 4 warlock feat will be war caster, 8th level rogue feat is skill expert bumping cha, skills with expertise are stealth, investigation, insight, deception, perception. Also proficient in pan flute, thieves tools; sleight of hand, persuasion, intimidation, and arcana. And has the 2 wild card (change on a long rest) tool/weapon proficiencies.
So I'm debating between half elf/eladrin (multiverse)/or high elf for a rogue(5, ?swashbuckler)/ bard 1/warlock 4 (hexblade pact of blade, devils sight, improved pact weapon for bow, green flame blade to make up for lost sneak attack, warcaster as level 4 feat)
The first feat he picks up.is elven accuracy.
Faerie fire from bard gives advantage (with hexblade curse critting on 19 or 20, and take the best of 3 rolls for 27% chance of critting and sneak attack)
Hex is disadvantage on one attribute which can be their attack attribute which is huge (prevents a rogue from sneak attacking, because they have disadvantage)
Both are concentration spells
Which is more effective?
I'm leaning toward hex because the rogue could always bonus action hide to get advantage.
Three different things: Faerie Fire, Hex spell and Hex blade's curse
Faerie Fire is by far the best of the three different things. It grants advantage to ALL, not just you, it can affect a group of enemies, it provides light if you need it, and it also cancels invisibility. It will still be worth concentrating on, even at higher levels.
Hex spell is often over-valued. The damage starts out good at first level, but does not increase. Upcasting increases time, not damage. Often it gets used mostly for the ability disadvantage, which is only situationally useful. It does have a longer range, which is useful. Once you get to higher levels,, the extra damage is not worth the concentration at all.
The Hexblade's Curse ability is the second best. Note it is different from the spell. It does Proficiency in extra damage which is not as good as the spell until 10th level, and is weak by that time. The crit range going from 19-20 is a crit build, generally weak compared to other stuff - even if you get Elven Accuracy, and the hit point regain is too little, too late (you get it when you do not need it, not when you do). It is a once per short rest ability.
Yes, if you want to focus on the crit, you want a hex blade warlock with elven accuracy. But such builds tend to be weak. Note, the best way to take advantage of Elven Accuracy tend to be 'bonus damage builds', not more crits.
In that kind of build you focus on getting as many add on damages. Sneak Attack is a prime one. But getting a weapon that does special things on a natural 20 (not a crit) are more important. Vorpal weapons are the best. Instant kill on a natural 20 means you want as many possible chances to get a natural 20, so Elven Accuracy actually begins to matter.
The vorpal double bladed scimitar (ebberon), being welded by an elven rogue with elven accuracy is a prime example of this. Till you get that weapon you can look for other, less powerful ones, such as flame toungue, sword of slashing, etc.
Hex does not penalize attack rolls or saving throws, only ability checks. The best use I've seen in combat for the ability disadvantage is to penalize Strength on creatures who like to Grapple.
Ok didn't realize attack rolls weren't ability rolls..... that totally devalues hex from what I thought it did. Thanks for letting me know!
Another question does war caster let you use green flame blade as an AoO? I think it targets a single opponent but then the flames can jump to a neighboring opponent so I'm not sure.
It did when the wording from the Sword Coast Guide was used, but the revised version in Tasha's Cauldron prevents it.
Specifically the ability to target a second creature violates the War caster restrictions. Note the spell Booming Blade still works with War Caster
How so?
The important thing about Hex is its duration. It's a spell definitely designed for Warlocks, with their very few spell slots... you can cast it once, and as long as you keep concentration on it, the spell lasts for a full hour and can benefit you through multiple combats. It's most useful for someone focused on multiple attacks per round... whether that's as a martial fighter, or as a Warlock casting Eldritch Blast. If you cast it with a 3rd level spell slot you can cast it once at the start of the day and, as long as you can keep concentration, maintain the benefits for an entire adventuring day all off of a single spell slot... you can even take a short rest while still concentrating on Hex to get the spell slot back.
That's the real benefit of Hex. There are plenty of other concentration spells that will have a greater impact on an individual combat. If you're in a battle against a big, dangerous enemy and you've gotta make the choice between Faerie Fire and Hex... Faerie Fire will 100% be the better choice. But if you're coming across a minor challenge early in the day and don't want to burn through all your spell slots too quickly, Hex can potentially save you slots on future challenges.
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This is the Tasha's version: Booming Blade/Green-Flame Blade. As you can see, it's a 5' radius AOE with a Range of Self. Zero spells with a Range of Self are legal to cast with War Caster, per the definitions of a spell's Range and the War Caster feat (all of them target the caster, so none of them target only the creature provoking the OA). For the same reason, the Tasha's version of BB/GFE can't be used with the Twinned Spell metamagic, and for very nearly the same reason (i.e. the Range), neither Tasha's version works with the Distant Spell metamagic.
If you use the SCAG version, then and only then EliasWindrider's question becomes relevant (you can unambigously combine SCAG GFE with War Caster by choosing not to have the fire damage leap to a second creature - the question is whether or not you can combine it while also keeping the secondary damage, which is the same question as whether or not you can make the secondary damage go through/around total cover).
https://www.sageadvice.eu/the-booming-blade-spell-continues-to-work-with-the-war-caster-feat/
The Booming Blade spell continues to work with the War Caster feat
That's not a rules source. Here, I can do the same thing. Here's a non-rules source with deeply untrustworthy information on it confirming BB doesn't work with War Caster. https://sage-advice.fandom.com/wiki/Booming_blade
That's straight from Jeremy Crawford
"A typical spell requires you to pick one or more targets to be affected by the spell’s magic. A spell’s description tells you whether the spell targets creatures, objects, or a point of origin for an area of effect"
And the description for booming blade says "You brandish the weapon used in the spell’s casting and make a melee attack with it against one creature within 5 feet of you. On a hit, the target suffers the weapon attack’s normal effects and..." which clearly indicates that the creature you attack is the spell's target.
"Self" in the range/area section of the spell indicates that the caster is the point of origin. While a spell's point of origin can be a target, like with Fireball...nothing in Booming Blade (or Green-Flame Blade) indicates that the point of origin is targetted, in any way. Booming Blade has only one target: the creature hit by the attack. It works with War Caster.
The caster is not a target, nothing in the rules says they must be a target, and it is silly to assume they are, especially when the lead designer repeatedly explains that they aren't. Where do you get the idea that range/area is specifying the target? It is merely stating that the target must be within 5 feet of the point of origin, and the point of origin is the caster. The target must be within the range/area; that is all.
Ken, exactly.
War Caster: When a hostile creature's movement provokes an opportunity attack from you, you can use your reaction to cast a spell at the creature, rather than making an opportunity attack. The spell must have a casting time of 1 action and must target only that creature.
Booming Blade (1 action to cast): You brandish the weapon used in the spell’s casting and make a melee attack with it against one creature within 5 feet of you.
There's really no ambiguity here. When the range portion says self, that only means you're the point of origin. When the area says self, now you're the target. Notice Armor of Agathys only says "self" since it applies to both, and the caster is the target.
What's "better" for 2 ASI's (2 levels apart, Rogue 10 AND 12): a double bump to SAD characteristic (CHA) and the alert feat VS the Telepathic and resilience feats (both bumping CHA, resilience gains proficiency in the saving throw)
Note character gets cha and dex added to initiative already (rogue swashbuckler). Starting attributes after racial mods are
10, 14, 14, 10, 12, 16
Character is summer eladrin (monster's of multiverse version) rogue(X)/bard(1)/hexblade warlock(4) with devils sight and improved pact weapon (long bow) with a rapier with ruby of warmage as hex weapon. First 4 level are rogue and he picks up elven accuracy (bumps cha to 17), level 4 warlock feat will be war caster, 8th level rogue feat is skill expert bumping cha, skills with expertise are stealth, investigation, insight, deception, perception. Also proficient in pan flute, thieves tools; sleight of hand, persuasion, intimidation, and arcana. And has the 2 wild card (change on a long rest) tool/weapon proficiencies.