So my group was joking about destroying a star with enlarge/reduce, and because of some conflict on how magic interacts with conservation of mass, I couldn’t agree with another player on how it would destroy the star. He thought repeated reduce would turn it to a black hole and repeated enlarge would reduce its density to the point where it couldn’t stay together, while I thought enlarging it repeatedly would make it collapse and reducing it repeatedly would stop it from maintaining nuclear fusion.
But how do you think a person or group of people could destroy a star in dnd? Other than wish, of course.
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So my group was joking about destroying a star with enlarge/reduce, and because of some conflict on how magic interacts with conservation of mass, I couldn’t agree with another player on how it would destroy the star. He thought repeated reduce would turn it to a black hole and repeated enlarge would reduce its density to the point where it couldn’t stay together, while I thought enlarging it repeatedly would make it collapse and reducing it repeatedly would stop it from maintaining nuclear fusion.
That spell won't stack with itself.
But how do you think a person or group of people could destroy a star in dnd? Other than wish, of course.
* The range of Enlarge/Reduce is 30ft. So you'd have to be at most 30ft away from the star to use the spell. Which means you'd have to be immune to Fire damage, able to deal with the utter lack of breathable air, and be able to resist the star's massive gravity.
* It's not a permanent effect, and two copies of the same spell don't stack, so you couldn't just get a group of people out there all casting Enlarge/Reduce on the same star.
* The spell does seem to increase/decrease the target's mass, since your weight changes along with your size, so you don't become less dense when you grow bigger for example. I don't know the physics calculations to determine what you would do to a star by increasing/decreasing its size and mass, and unless your players are astrophysicists, I doubt they do either.
* If your players actually want to wipe out all life in their solar system, ostensibly including themselves, by either turning the sun into an inert dwarf, collapsing it into a black hole or neutron star, or causing it to go supernova, then okay I guess? I suppose it's as good as any other arbitrary way to wipe out your existing game world and make a new one from scratch, if that's your thing.
* In game, if the deities of that realm saw what you were trying to do, pretty sure they'd step in and put a stop to things, just sayin'. Even most of the evil gods still want a world to try and control.
I was one of the players, and this was both largely a joke and related to the bbeg instead of the party being chaotic evil. I don’t think an idea of this catastrophic scale should be taken too seriously. I have to say, the spell not stacking with itself is something we forgot about and probably a good thing. And no, we don’t know what would happen until the changes hit the highest extremes, such as black hole level, or the exact point at which it hits those extremes.
But disintegration and time stop, now that’s something good if you have that amount of patience. Maybe get a beholder with special equipment for surviving the sun to disintegrate it faster.
Or, hear me out, gate spell between star and some black hole. They gravitationally attract each other, and the black hole absorbs the star. The only way to destroy a black hole is likely disintegration of some form.
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RAW, you could shrink a star from the Gargantuan size to the Huge size using Enlarge/Reduce. Scientifically, I have no clue what would happen. However, you might simply rule that the spell wouldn't be able to shrink such a massive object. Enlarging the star, on the other hand, is RAW impossible. It's already Gargantuan. Like a mansion or a [Tooltip Not Found], it can't be enlarged by the spell because there is no size to enlarge into.
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Panda-wat (I hate my username) is somehow convinced that he is objectively right about everything D&D related even though he obviously is not. Considering that, he'd probably make a great D&D youtuber.
"If I die, I can live with that." ~Luke Hart, the DM lair
This is where two pieces of the spell’s text don’t match up. Even if a star counts as 1 object, this definitely isn’t RAI. Halving a star in all dimensions still leaves it beyond gargantuan, but the spell is also supposed to make it huge. At huge size it wouldn’t be a star anymore. Nuclear fusion can’t happen in a star that small, and if it could continue the star would explode because its gravity can’t hold it together with that pressure coming from inside it. Honestly, it remains extremely hot, so it likely just explodes regardless. So if reduce turns it huge instead of halving its size in all dimensions, kaboom.
If it halves the size in all dimensions while keeping it too big to be huge, it remains because that is nowhere near the point where a star can’t be a star anymore because it’s too small.
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I think you are overthinking how the Stars work in D&D. Spelljammer lore from 2E has lore on the Stars. I'll provide a link to the sun of Toril (forgotten realms).
2e isn’t always 5e, so unless there is something similar in 5e’s spelljammer campaign, I am assuming they work like irl stars.
You’re right, the spell jammer mechanics for stars are wildly different than our universe’s counterpart. I assume from your response, you didn’t take the time to read it.
lore-wise i'd say its not even remotely possible for pretty much anything less-powerful than Shar (destroying suns is here thing btw). Wish would fail utterly. In the Erevis Cale novels, it took one of the most powerful wizards in the history of the multiverse (that didn't at some point become a god) to move one of Selune's tears just a little bit...and there you're talking about something the size of just a dormant piece of a moon, not an entire active star. I'd say most lesser gods can't destroy a sun.
2e isn’t always 5e, so unless there is something similar in 5e’s spelljammer campaign, I am assuming they work like irl stars.
You’re right, the spell jammer mechanics for stars are wildly different than our universe’s counterpart. I assume from your response, you didn’t take the time to read it.
I don’t own the book yet sadly. Are they in the free thing?
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2e isn’t always 5e, so unless there is something similar in 5e’s spelljammer campaign, I am assuming they work like irl stars.
You’re right, the spell jammer mechanics for stars are wildly different than our universe’s counterpart. I assume from your response, you didn’t take the time to read it.
I don’t own the book yet sadly. Are they in the free thing?
2e isn’t always 5e, so unless there is something similar in 5e’s spelljammer campaign, I am assuming they work like irl stars.
You’re right, the spell jammer mechanics for stars are wildly different than our universe’s counterpart. I assume from your response, you didn’t take the time to read it.
I don’t own the book yet sadly. Are they in the free thing?
The link provided to the 2e material is free.
Is there anything 5e?
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Aside from a lair of the solar dragon being in the core of a star, no there’s nothing I’ve seen about stars in 5E.
I don’t think everything from previous editions applies to the current one, so I guess we are still trying to destroy an irl star with dnd stuff.
Systems being separated by the astral plane rather than by conventional space is a big enough difference to consider stars something other than as irl. The majority of the astral has air and you do not age in it. Good luck with that in real space.
I’m going to say, just blow up either one you want. I originally posted with the intent of irl stars, but if you know how spelljammer stars work in the current edition and can make one go boom, then do.
I don’t think using our universe’s physics applies to the D&D one. If a dragon lairs in its core now with 5E, no where in its stat block mentions radiation protection (radiant damage is not flavored that way) nor does it mention fire immunity for the extreme heat of a star and lastly nor does it mention anything about the immense gravitational forces that would effect anything even remotely close (in galactic terms) to the star. We are playing in worlds with fantastical creatures and mountain moving magic. Bringing in real world space physics seems overly complicated for both thr DM and players. But to each their own at their tables.
I don’t think using our universe’s physics applies to the D&D one. If a dragon lairs in its core now with 5E, no where in its stat block mentions radiation protection (radiant damage is not flavored that way) nor does it mention fire immunity for the extreme heat of a star and lastly nor does it mention anything about the immense gravitational forces that would effect anything even remotely close (in galactic terms) to the star. We are playing in worlds with fantastical creatures and mountain moving magic. Bringing in real world space physics seems overly complicated for both thr DM and players. But to each their own at their tables.
Solar Dragons are immune to radiant damage. The lair of a solar dragon is said to be either in the core of a star or in a hollowed rock engulfed by the star's blinding radiance. Then it reads:
A star in which a solar dragon makes its lair has the following effects on creatures:
Blinding Radiance. A creature that is within 10 miles of the star or inside it is blinded by its intense light unless the creature has protective gear to shield its eyes, such as goggles of night or a similar form of eyewear.
Stellar Incineration. Any creature that enters the star or starts its turn inside it takes 132 (24d10) radiant damage.
There's no evidence that a star a solar dragon chooses to lair in is difference from other stars, so it's fair to surmise that the effects in this stat block are what a being would have to contend against with a star. Intense light blindness and radiant (not fire) damage.
Haven't gotten into the air and gravity mechanics but presuming one can just freely travel the Astral free of air and gravity hazards I think isn't supported in the way 5e spell jammer is set up.
So my group was joking about destroying a star with enlarge/reduce, and because of some conflict on how magic interacts with conservation of mass, I couldn’t agree with another player on how it would destroy the star. He thought repeated reduce would turn it to a black hole and repeated enlarge would reduce its density to the point where it couldn’t stay together, while I thought enlarging it repeatedly would make it collapse and reducing it repeatedly would stop it from maintaining nuclear fusion.
But how do you think a person or group of people could destroy a star in dnd? Other than wish, of course.
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That spell won't stack with itself.
Disintegrate and time.
Well, I would start with the following:
* The range of Enlarge/Reduce is 30ft. So you'd have to be at most 30ft away from the star to use the spell. Which means you'd have to be immune to Fire damage, able to deal with the utter lack of breathable air, and be able to resist the star's massive gravity.
* It's not a permanent effect, and two copies of the same spell don't stack, so you couldn't just get a group of people out there all casting Enlarge/Reduce on the same star.
* The spell does seem to increase/decrease the target's mass, since your weight changes along with your size, so you don't become less dense when you grow bigger for example. I don't know the physics calculations to determine what you would do to a star by increasing/decreasing its size and mass, and unless your players are astrophysicists, I doubt they do either.
* If your players actually want to wipe out all life in their solar system, ostensibly including themselves, by either turning the sun into an inert dwarf, collapsing it into a black hole or neutron star, or causing it to go supernova, then okay I guess? I suppose it's as good as any other arbitrary way to wipe out your existing game world and make a new one from scratch, if that's your thing.
* In game, if the deities of that realm saw what you were trying to do, pretty sure they'd step in and put a stop to things, just sayin'. Even most of the evil gods still want a world to try and control.
I was one of the players, and this was both largely a joke and related to the bbeg instead of the party being chaotic evil. I don’t think an idea of this catastrophic scale should be taken too seriously. I have to say, the spell not stacking with itself is something we forgot about and probably a good thing. And no, we don’t know what would happen until the changes hit the highest extremes, such as black hole level, or the exact point at which it hits those extremes.
But disintegration and time stop, now that’s something good if you have that amount of patience. Maybe get a beholder with special equipment for surviving the sun to disintegrate it faster.
Or, hear me out, gate spell between star and some black hole. They gravitationally attract each other, and the black hole absorbs the star. The only way to destroy a black hole is likely disintegration of some form.
Royalty among the charge kingdom. All will fall before our glorious assault!
Quest offer! Enter the deep dungeon here
Ctg’s blood is on the spam filter’s hands
RAW, you could shrink a star from the Gargantuan size to the Huge size using Enlarge/Reduce. Scientifically, I have no clue what would happen. However, you might simply rule that the spell wouldn't be able to shrink such a massive object. Enlarging the star, on the other hand, is RAW impossible. It's already Gargantuan. Like a mansion or a [Tooltip Not Found], it can't be enlarged by the spell because there is no size to enlarge into.
Panda-wat (I hate my username) is somehow convinced that he is objectively right about everything D&D related even though he obviously is not. Considering that, he'd probably make a great D&D youtuber.
"If I die, I can live with that." ~Luke Hart, the DM lair
This is where two pieces of the spell’s text don’t match up. Even if a star counts as 1 object, this definitely isn’t RAI. Halving a star in all dimensions still leaves it beyond gargantuan, but the spell is also supposed to make it huge. At huge size it wouldn’t be a star anymore. Nuclear fusion can’t happen in a star that small, and if it could continue the star would explode because its gravity can’t hold it together with that pressure coming from inside it. Honestly, it remains extremely hot, so it likely just explodes regardless. So if reduce turns it huge instead of halving its size in all dimensions, kaboom.
If it halves the size in all dimensions while keeping it too big to be huge, it remains because that is nowhere near the point where a star can’t be a star anymore because it’s too small.
Royalty among the charge kingdom. All will fall before our glorious assault!
Quest offer! Enter the deep dungeon here
Ctg’s blood is on the spam filter’s hands
I think you are overthinking how the Stars work in D&D. Spelljammer lore from 2E has lore on the Stars. I'll provide a link to the sun of Toril (forgotten realms).
https://spelljammer.fandom.com/wiki/Sun,_The_(Realmspace)
2e isn’t always 5e, so unless there is something similar in 5e’s spelljammer campaign, I am assuming they work like irl stars.
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Would you let your players cast Enlarge/Reduce on the planet?
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
You’re right, the spell jammer mechanics for stars are wildly different than our universe’s counterpart. I assume from your response, you didn’t take the time to read it.
lore-wise i'd say its not even remotely possible for pretty much anything less-powerful than Shar (destroying suns is here thing btw). Wish would fail utterly. In the Erevis Cale novels, it took one of the most powerful wizards in the history of the multiverse (that didn't at some point become a god) to move one of Selune's tears just a little bit...and there you're talking about something the size of just a dormant piece of a moon, not an entire active star. I'd say most lesser gods can't destroy a sun.
I don’t own the book yet sadly. Are they in the free thing?
Royalty among the charge kingdom. All will fall before our glorious assault!
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The link provided to the 2e material is free.
Is there anything 5e?
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Aside from a lair of the solar dragon being in the core of a star, no there’s nothing I’ve seen about stars in 5E.
I don’t think everything from previous editions applies to the current one, so I guess we are still trying to destroy an irl star with dnd stuff.
Royalty among the charge kingdom. All will fall before our glorious assault!
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I’m going to say, just blow up either one you want. I originally posted with the intent of irl stars, but if you know how spelljammer stars work in the current edition and can make one go boom, then do.
Royalty among the charge kingdom. All will fall before our glorious assault!
Quest offer! Enter the deep dungeon here
Ctg’s blood is on the spam filter’s hands
I don’t think using our universe’s physics applies to the D&D one. If a dragon lairs in its core now with 5E, no where in its stat block mentions radiation protection (radiant damage is not flavored that way) nor does it mention fire immunity for the extreme heat of a star and lastly nor does it mention anything about the immense gravitational forces that would effect anything even remotely close (in galactic terms) to the star. We are playing in worlds with fantastical creatures and mountain moving magic. Bringing in real world space physics seems overly complicated for both thr DM and players. But to each their own at their tables.
The sun (or the planet, or the moon...) probably has a Con save measured in the hundreds. :)
Solar Dragons are immune to radiant damage. The lair of a solar dragon is said to be either in the core of a star or in a hollowed rock engulfed by the star's blinding radiance. Then it reads:
There's no evidence that a star a solar dragon chooses to lair in is difference from other stars, so it's fair to surmise that the effects in this stat block are what a being would have to contend against with a star. Intense light blindness and radiant (not fire) damage.
Haven't gotten into the air and gravity mechanics but presuming one can just freely travel the Astral free of air and gravity hazards I think isn't supported in the way 5e spell jammer is set up.
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