The idea behind this build is to play, essentially, as though I were a set of Animated Armor.
Now, it's worth mentioning that I wouldn't literally be Animated Armor. Rather, I'm think that I would play as the spirit of the warrior that once occupied the armor, and am bound to it.
For the race, I'm thinking either Reborn or a reflavored Warforged. Obviously Plate Armor would be in order. (Class doesn't matter, but I'm thinking Paladin) But beyond that, I'm not too sure what to do without home brewing.
I know that this would require the DM's permission, but what do you think? As a DM, would you allow it? As a player or DM, how would you build it?
EDIT:
I love all of the ideas you have presented. The Echo Knight makes for great role-play, with the echo being the spirit of the warrior. The Creation Bard is cool, but I doubt any DM would allow it. Armorer Artificer is an obvious choice, but I'd like to stay away from technology for this build.
But in the end, I think I'm gonna go with the most heavily discussed idea here: Monk: Way of the Astral Self. Since monks don't wear armor and warforged can only equip armor they're proficient with, it prevents any potential shenanigans with "soul transferring" or anything like that. It provides some great role-play, with the spirit of the warrior "breaking out" of their armor. Simply put, the monk gives this build the AC of plate (Or higher), but prevents me from actually wearing it, leaving the warforged to act as the armor itself.
Final Build - Race: Warforged (Reflavored to be an empty suit of plate armor) - Class: Monk, Way of the Astral Self
To shamelessly steal Ravnodaus' idea from another thread.... how about a Warforged Astral Monk? Play up the fact that your character is the ghost possessing the body, not really the body itself (or maybe you're both and a little in conflict with yourself?), and that in combat you're attacking with ghostly manifestations that erupt out of the armor or moving around as the spirit possesses and controls the body?
What's even more interesting, is that Astral Monks have their own subclass features which sort of overlap and replace the normal Martial Arts features, in a way which makes wearing armor a little less painful if you really want to go that extra mile?
Martial Arts: use Dex for attacks with monk weapons and unarmed strikes, but lose this if you're wearing armor. Arms of the Astral Self: use Wisdom for attack with unarmed strikes, period.
Martial Arts: use monk damage die progression with monk weapons and unarmed strikes, but lose this if you're wearing armor. Arms of the Astral Self: nothing about damage, so sadly you do need to look to Martial Arts for damage die, and lose that with armor.... but, Unarmed Fighting Style gets that right back, and actually jumps you straight to an 11th-level monk d8 if you leave your hands free?!?.
Martial Arts: can make a Bonus Action unarmed strike when you attack with monk weapons or unarmed strikes with Attack action. Arms of the Astral Self: nothing about extra attack seperately from Martial Arts at first, so sadly you do lose that Bonus Action attack in armor... but, at level 11 you get bonus damage that can help replace it, and at level 17 you get a third attack with your Attack action. ALSO IMPORTANT: Ki - Flurry of Blows is entirely distinct from the normal Martial Arts bonus action attack you get... and is not limited by wearing armor. On any round where you use a Ki point for Flurry of Blows , you can make two Bonus Action attacks even if your armor would ordinarily prevent you from taking a single Bonus Action Martial Arts attack!!!!
Beyond that, there's only one other monk feature you lose from armor (the +X speed enhancements), while every other feature doesn't care about armor. In short, other than needing to use Flurry of Blows a little more consistently than a properly-naked monk.... A Fighter 1/Astral Monk X with Unarmed Fighting Style can be very effective at wearing Plate and making d8 astral unarmed strikes with +5 reach right from level 3!
That's interesting, but you need your ki points to pay for being in Astral Self mode - it'll be incredibly expensive paying for Astral Self and then also paying for flurry of blows. The plate armor is the weirdest flex, since Astral Self lets you replace Strength with Wisdom, and you need Strength to maintain mobility in plate.
The closest solution I can think of without requiring a lot of homebrew is a Creation Bard using Animating Performance on the plate armor they're wearing.
That's interesting, but you need your ki points to pay for being in Astral Self mode - it'll be incredibly expensive paying for Astral Self and then also paying for flurry of blows. The plate armor is the weirdest flex, since Astral Self lets you replace Strength with Wisdom, and you need Strength to maintain mobility in plate.
The closest solution I can think of without requiring a lot of homebrew is a Creation Bard using Animating Performance on the plate armor they're wearing.
I was about to say that the astral arms actually allow you to make more bonus action attacks without spending additional Ki, but then I remembered the Astral monk in the party I play with was based on the UA version, where the arms cost more to summon.
The more I think about it, the more I like the concept of an Astral Warforged to play as Animated Armor. It removes the need for actual armor (No soul transference or any of that nonsense), and adds many flavorful abilities to the build. I love this concept!
EDIT: Tho I’ve gotta say, the direction this concept has gone in is surprising. Animated Armor that doesn’t wear armor!
I think that the Astral Monk angle (with or without armor from a Fighter or Cleric multiclass) is sufficiently described.
If you want another angle that more specifically emphasizes the "armor" in Animated Armor.... I'm surprised that nobody piped up immediately with Armorer Artificer? At low levels you'd really just be narratively describing your Warforged as an animated suit of armor, but in Tier 2 once you start being able to enchant your various armor components, use rocket fists, etc etc it would start to come together as being more supernatural armor with special abilities. You could even start to hollow out the armor after level 3, since it "replaces missing limbs", which is probably a little less gruesome a proposition as a Warforged than a biological race...
Or, emphasizing damage resistance, THP, and general hardiness could be another angle. A chonky abjuration wizard in plate, a Bear Totem barbarian's rage (heavy armor strips some benefits, but not the DR), the Heavy Armor Master feat, Toughness, Chef, saving throw bonuses from classes like Paladin or Bloodhunter.... several different things you can stitch together to send your HP, THP, and general resilience through the roof, so that you can play as an indestructible suit of armor.
For the the Warforged Astral Monk approach you really only need DM buy-off on the idea that a warforged could look like a suit of full plate. And I guess be hollow? IDK that's not that big a stretch. The idea is awesome!
Warforged Armorer Artificer is a concept I love but it'd be trickier to really get in place. It feels like a lot more of its features are temporary or replaceable or modular and not 'intrinsic properties of a ghost living in a suit of armor'. It'd work for sure though, mechanically it's solid too.
Another option would be an Echo Knight. Your ghostly duplicate could look more like you did when alive. So it'd be a suit of armor fighting alongside its translucent grey image of their previously living self. That'd be neat.
I'm also going to throw in a non-class based suggestion, the telekinetic feat. Thematically it works great for a spirit based ghostly type character feel.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
The more I think about it, the more I like the concept of an Astral Warforged to play as Animated Armor. It removes the need for actual armor (No soul transference or any of that nonsense), and adds many flavorful abilities to the build. I love this concept!
EDIT: Tho I’ve gotta say, the direction this concept has gone in is surprising. Animated Armor that doesn’t wear armor!
NGL, I was hoping you'd like the Creation Bard concept. :'(
I’ve had a really hard time understanding what it is that creation bards are supposed to be about. Usually I can kind of grok the fantasy archetype that gave rise to them… but the flying musical notes just seem really weird I have a hard time picturing that in my head :/
Lore/RP aside, mechanically what play style niche do creation bards do?
The more I think about it, the more I like the concept of an Astral Warforged to play as Animated Armor. It removes the need for actual armor (No soul transference or any of that nonsense), and adds many flavorful abilities to the build. I love this concept!
EDIT: Tho I’ve gotta say, the direction this concept has gone in is surprising. Animated Armor that doesn’t wear armor!
NGL, I was hoping you'd like the Creation Bard concept. :'(
Having more throughly read through the Creation Bard, I think I understand what you're getting at. Enchanting the armor one is wearing to give it independence. Essentially, gaining a hovering speed and two turns per round. But as a DM, I wouldn't allow it. I love the idea! Quite a lot in fact! But I feel it's just a little lackluster in terms of roleplay (For this specific build, not in general) and a little exploity in terms of gameplay. Again, I like the idea, I just can't see a DM or a Player making it work.
EDIT: One more thing: If you target armor with this spell, you give it hit points, meaning it can be destroyed. You'd have to spend 1,500 gp every combat encounter or hang in the back with the wizard (Which isn't the point of having high AC)
I don't know for sure, but I assume yes. You're not killing the enchantment, you're killing the object that is enchanted (Rendering it useless and incapable of carrying out the enchantment's behavior).
What about an echo knight where your echo is actually just you, the spirit. You have a limited ability to leave your armored confines and get better at it as you level up. I'd still go warforged because it's hands down the easiest to reskin into the aesthetic you need and mechanically never has to take off the armor to rest.
I love all of the ideas you have presented. The Echo Knight makes for great role-play, with the echo being the spirit of the warrior. The Creation Bard is cool, but I doubt any DM would allow it. Armorer Artificer is an obvious choice, but I'd like to stay away from technology for this build.
But in the end, I think I'm gonna go with the most heavily discussed idea here: Monk: Way of the Astral Self. Since monks don't wear armor and warforged can only equip armor they're proficient with, it prevents any potential shenanigans with "soul transferring" or anything like that. It provides some great role-play, with the spirit of the warrior "breaking out" of their armor. Simply put, the monk gives this build the AC of plate (Or higher), but prevents me from actually wearing it, leaving the warforged to act as the armor itself.
Final Build - Race: Warforged (Reflavored to be an empty suit of plate armor) - Class: Monk, Way of the Astral Self
That sounds like it could be really fun. I'd allow it to be played by any armour wearing class with a standard array of stats. In order that the character can actually change armour, and doesn't have to be bound to be non-armoured, I'd probably suggest putting the 'spirit' of the armour in a gem or other element that can be moved from one suit to another.
Choosing something peculiar like this is more likely to give your PC problems than benefits, mostly in terms of social interaction, but it would certainly make for an interesting character.
54MU31, how did this work out? Did you ever get to play the character? Did it fulfill all of your hopes and dreams?
This concept has been rattling around in my head since this fateful conversation all those years ago, and I am thinking of trying this out as my next character concept. Just wanted to see how it played out.
Tragically, I haven't played as a player since this post. I've DM'd twice, and been a part of two one-shots with a DM I didn't like, and have yet to utilize this concept. Though the concept has been modified slightly:
I would instead go Barbarian 1/Paladin X. The 1 level in barbarian would get me unarmored defense, but with CON, allowing me to be STR-based. I still wouldn't equip any armor as a self-imposed restriction. The paladin subclass would start out as either Oathbreaker or Conquest, but I (with the DM's permission of course) would swap over to another subclass, such as Redemption, as the character evolves. The idea is that this character was on the wrong side of a conflict in the past, and can't truly die until they redeem their past actions.
54MU31, how did this work out? Did you ever get to play the character? Did it fulfill all of your hopes and dreams?
This concept has been rattling around in my head since this fateful conversation all those years ago, and I am thinking of trying this out as my next character concept. Just wanted to see how it played out.
Tragically, I haven't played as a player since this post. I've DM'd twice, and been a part of two one-shots with a DM I didn't like, and have yet to utilize this concept. Though the concept has been modified slightly:
I would instead go Barbarian 1/Paladin X. The 1 level in barbarian would get me unarmored defense, but with CON, allowing me to be STR-based. I still wouldn't equip any armor as a self-imposed restriction. The paladin subclass would start out as either Oathbreaker or Conquest, but I (with the DM's permission of course) would swap over to another subclass, such as Redemption, as the character evolves. The idea is that this character was on the wrong side of a conflict in the past, and can't truly die until they redeem their past actions.
I would definitely recommend conquest- Conquest paladins VERY easily rub people the wrong way and through their iron fist leadership style and dousing flames of hope, can very easily be on the wrong side of a conflict even if they *were* on the right side. and have a lot of actions that need redemption. Just my 2 cents.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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The idea behind this build is to play, essentially, as though I were a set of Animated Armor.
Now, it's worth mentioning that I wouldn't literally be Animated Armor. Rather, I'm think that I would play as the spirit of the warrior that once occupied the armor, and am bound to it.
For the race, I'm thinking either Reborn or a reflavored Warforged. Obviously Plate Armor would be in order. (Class doesn't matter, but I'm thinking Paladin) But beyond that, I'm not too sure what to do without home brewing.
I know that this would require the DM's permission, but what do you think? As a DM, would you allow it? As a player or DM, how would you build it?
EDIT:
I love all of the ideas you have presented. The Echo Knight makes for great role-play, with the echo being the spirit of the warrior. The Creation Bard is cool, but I doubt any DM would allow it. Armorer Artificer is an obvious choice, but I'd like to stay away from technology for this build.
But in the end, I think I'm gonna go with the most heavily discussed idea here: Monk: Way of the Astral Self. Since monks don't wear armor and warforged can only equip armor they're proficient with, it prevents any potential shenanigans with "soul transferring" or anything like that. It provides some great role-play, with the spirit of the warrior "breaking out" of their armor. Simply put, the monk gives this build the AC of plate (Or higher), but prevents me from actually wearing it, leaving the warforged to act as the armor itself.
Final Build - Race: Warforged (Reflavored to be an empty suit of plate armor) - Class: Monk, Way of the Astral Self
I'd allow it... I'd probably just make it a reflavored warforged, but probably just because I'm more familiar with them than with Reborn.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
To shamelessly steal Ravnodaus' idea from another thread.... how about a Warforged Astral Monk? Play up the fact that your character is the ghost possessing the body, not really the body itself (or maybe you're both and a little in conflict with yourself?), and that in combat you're attacking with ghostly manifestations that erupt out of the armor or moving around as the spirit possesses and controls the body?
What's even more interesting, is that Astral Monks have their own subclass features which sort of overlap and replace the normal Martial Arts features, in a way which makes wearing armor a little less painful if you really want to go that extra mile?
Beyond that, there's only one other monk feature you lose from armor (the +X speed enhancements), while every other feature doesn't care about armor. In short, other than needing to use Flurry of Blows a little more consistently than a properly-naked monk.... A Fighter 1/Astral Monk X with Unarmed Fighting Style can be very effective at wearing Plate and making d8 astral unarmed strikes with +5 reach right from level 3!
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
That's interesting, but you need your ki points to pay for being in Astral Self mode - it'll be incredibly expensive paying for Astral Self and then also paying for flurry of blows. The plate armor is the weirdest flex, since Astral Self lets you replace Strength with Wisdom, and you need Strength to maintain mobility in plate.
The closest solution I can think of without requiring a lot of homebrew is a Creation Bard using Animating Performance on the plate armor they're wearing.
I was about to say that the astral arms actually allow you to make more bonus action attacks without spending additional Ki, but then I remembered the Astral monk in the party I play with was based on the UA version, where the arms cost more to summon.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
The more I think about it, the more I like the concept of an Astral Warforged to play as Animated Armor. It removes the need for actual armor (No soul transference or any of that nonsense), and adds many flavorful abilities to the build. I love this concept!
EDIT: Tho I’ve gotta say, the direction this concept has gone in is surprising. Animated Armor that doesn’t wear armor!
I think that the Astral Monk angle (with or without armor from a Fighter or Cleric multiclass) is sufficiently described.
If you want another angle that more specifically emphasizes the "armor" in Animated Armor.... I'm surprised that nobody piped up immediately with Armorer Artificer? At low levels you'd really just be narratively describing your Warforged as an animated suit of armor, but in Tier 2 once you start being able to enchant your various armor components, use rocket fists, etc etc it would start to come together as being more supernatural armor with special abilities. You could even start to hollow out the armor after level 3, since it "replaces missing limbs", which is probably a little less gruesome a proposition as a Warforged than a biological race...
Or, emphasizing damage resistance, THP, and general hardiness could be another angle. A chonky abjuration wizard in plate, a Bear Totem barbarian's rage (heavy armor strips some benefits, but not the DR), the Heavy Armor Master feat, Toughness, Chef, saving throw bonuses from classes like Paladin or Bloodhunter.... several different things you can stitch together to send your HP, THP, and general resilience through the roof, so that you can play as an indestructible suit of armor.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
For the the Warforged Astral Monk approach you really only need DM buy-off on the idea that a warforged could look like a suit of full plate. And I guess be hollow? IDK that's not that big a stretch. The idea is awesome!
Warforged Armorer Artificer is a concept I love but it'd be trickier to really get in place. It feels like a lot more of its features are temporary or replaceable or modular and not 'intrinsic properties of a ghost living in a suit of armor'. It'd work for sure though, mechanically it's solid too.
Another option would be an Echo Knight. Your ghostly duplicate could look more like you did when alive. So it'd be a suit of armor fighting alongside its translucent grey image of their previously living self. That'd be neat.
I'm also going to throw in a non-class based suggestion, the telekinetic feat. Thematically it works great for a spirit based ghostly type character feel.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
NGL, I was hoping you'd like the Creation Bard concept. :'(
I’ve had a really hard time understanding what it is that creation bards are supposed to be about. Usually I can kind of grok the fantasy archetype that gave rise to them… but the flying musical notes just seem really weird I have a hard time picturing that in my head :/
Lore/RP aside, mechanically what play style niche do creation bards do?
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Having more throughly read through the Creation Bard, I think I understand what you're getting at. Enchanting the armor one is wearing to give it independence. Essentially, gaining a hovering speed and two turns per round. But as a DM, I wouldn't allow it. I love the idea! Quite a lot in fact! But I feel it's just a little lackluster in terms of roleplay (For this specific build, not in general) and a little exploity in terms of gameplay. Again, I like the idea, I just can't see a DM or a Player making it work.
EDIT: One more thing: If you target armor with this spell, you give it hit points, meaning it can be destroyed. You'd have to spend 1,500 gp every combat encounter or hang in the back with the wizard (Which isn't the point of having high AC)
Does killing an animated object destroy it, or just cause it to cease being animated? Again, not familiar with the specific feature…
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
I don't know for sure, but I assume yes. You're not killing the enchantment, you're killing the object that is enchanted (Rendering it useless and incapable of carrying out the enchantment's behavior).
What about an echo knight where your echo is actually just you, the spirit. You have a limited ability to leave your armored confines and get better at it as you level up. I'd still go warforged because it's hands down the easiest to reskin into the aesthetic you need and mechanically never has to take off the armor to rest.
I love all of the ideas you have presented. The Echo Knight makes for great role-play, with the echo being the spirit of the warrior. The Creation Bard is cool, but I doubt any DM would allow it. Armorer Artificer is an obvious choice, but I'd like to stay away from technology for this build.
But in the end, I think I'm gonna go with the most heavily discussed idea here: Monk: Way of the Astral Self. Since monks don't wear armor and warforged can only equip armor they're proficient with, it prevents any potential shenanigans with "soul transferring" or anything like that. It provides some great role-play, with the spirit of the warrior "breaking out" of their armor. Simply put, the monk gives this build the AC of plate (Or higher), but prevents me from actually wearing it, leaving the warforged to act as the armor itself.
Final Build - Race: Warforged (Reflavored to be an empty suit of plate armor) - Class: Monk, Way of the Astral Self
Reskin Tortle for 17 ac and go full astral monk.
That sounds like it could be really fun. I'd allow it to be played by any armour wearing class with a standard array of stats. In order that the character can actually change armour, and doesn't have to be bound to be non-armoured, I'd probably suggest putting the 'spirit' of the armour in a gem or other element that can be moved from one suit to another.
Choosing something peculiar like this is more likely to give your PC problems than benefits, mostly in terms of social interaction, but it would certainly make for an interesting character.
Have fun 54MU31! sounds like it's going to make for a wonderful character.
Tragically, I haven't played as a player since this post. I've DM'd twice, and been a part of two one-shots with a DM I didn't like, and have yet to utilize this concept. Though the concept has been modified slightly:
I would instead go Barbarian 1/Paladin X. The 1 level in barbarian would get me unarmored defense, but with CON, allowing me to be STR-based. I still wouldn't equip any armor as a self-imposed restriction. The paladin subclass would start out as either Oathbreaker or Conquest, but I (with the DM's permission of course) would swap over to another subclass, such as Redemption, as the character evolves. The idea is that this character was on the wrong side of a conflict in the past, and can't truly die until they redeem their past actions.
I would definitely recommend conquest- Conquest paladins VERY easily rub people the wrong way and through their iron fist leadership style and dousing flames of hope, can very easily be on the wrong side of a conflict even if they *were* on the right side. and have a lot of actions that need redemption. Just my 2 cents.
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