While there are strong builds and weak builds, you can nt be the best at everything, if you focus on single target damage you will not be as good at skill checks, or battlefield control or AoE attacks, you can not say damage dealer is better than the battle field controller they have different functions. A balanced party is one that can fulfill as many functions well as possible.
It also depends on the campaign, for example there is one published campaign entirly based in the underdarlk and another based in hell, abilities that are good in one may not be as good in another.
Fun is entirely subjective, what oneperson finds as fun someone else would hate playing. Remember however the the game should be fun for everyone. One highly optimised damage dealer could easily do twice as much damage as a typical first character for a new player. The game is likely to be less fun for a player if their character is shown to be aneamic. There are also some class features that can reduce the fun for othre players. For example the twilight cleric is very powerful either as a main class or as a 2 level dip, however the twilight sanctuary feature provides a far greater source of temporary hit-point than anythinf else in the game, is a player decides to be vHuman / custom linage and takes inspiring leader as the starting feat (a moderately strong option) only to find that the twilighty cleric gives everyone as many temporary hitpoints to everyone every round as they can give every short rest the player who chose inspiring leader will be pretty upset.
Shadar Kai. Bladesinger. Takes Lorehold background and uses Spirit Guardians and Booming Blade or Green-flame Blade while teleporting around the battlefield as your "low resource expenditure" mode, all the while being a 14th level wizard and having 7th level wizard spells to go ham with when needed. Got an AC well into the 20s, can shield/absorb element/silvery barbs/counterspell any real threats, have resistance to p/b/s after teleporting, and anyone who gets close gets slowed and nuked by the guardians.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Must be level 14. Absolute strongest possible build that is fun. Thanks!
How are we supposed to know what you find fun? Or how your DM has ruled on problematically poorly worded rules?
L14 Genielock (Dao) is absolutely the strongest possible build if your DM rules in your favor every time the question comes up "Is X a requirement of Y spell?", but no DM is ever going to actually do that in practice.
A Cocainelock (that's a sorcerer/warlock with Greater Restoration, which results in infinite level 5 spell slots) is fun for some people but not for others, and relies on your DM not banning it (it's RAW legal, but until you get to an even higher level, your DM can basically cut off your diamond supply and you're done). There are several different ways to get the spell onto your list.
Changeling, L1 Rogue, L2-5 Bard: Eloquence, L6-14 Rogue: Swashbuckler: Expert Face/Infiltrator. Extreme versatility, with Expertise in 4 skills, unable to roll lower than 10 on the die for Deception and Persuasion, able to shapechange into anyone the character has seen, etc.
Elf, L1=5 Warlock, L6-14 Sorcerer: Divine Soul: Long rest in 4 hours, then chain short rests for the rest of the party's long rest for extra spell slots each day (6 Sorcery Points to be converted into spell slots for each hour-long short rest). Then if the character makes it to at least L19, take L15-19 in Bard: Creation to gain the ability to create your own Diamonds for Greater Restoration, turning the character into a true, sustainable Coffeelock, not dependent on the availability of diamonds in the setting.
Must be level 14. Absolute strongest possible build that is fun. Thanks!
How are we supposed to know what you find fun? Or how your DM has ruled on problematically poorly worded rules?
L14 Genielock (Dao) is absolutely the strongest possible build if your DM rules in your favor every time the question comes up "Is X a requirement of Y spell?", but no DM is ever going to actually do that in practice.
A Cocainelock (that's a sorcerer/warlock with Greater Restoration, which results in infinite level 5 spell slots) is fun for some people but not for others, and relies on your DM not banning it (it's RAW legal, but until you get to an even higher level, your DM can basically cut off your diamond supply and you're done). There are several different ways to get the spell onto your list.
could you explain the cocainelock more clearly? i dont understand how greater restoration gives you spell slots.
Must be level 14. Absolute strongest possible build that is fun. Thanks!
How are we supposed to know what you find fun? Or how your DM has ruled on problematically poorly worded rules?
L14 Genielock (Dao) is absolutely the strongest possible build if your DM rules in your favor every time the question comes up "Is X a requirement of Y spell?", but no DM is ever going to actually do that in practice.
A Cocainelock (that's a sorcerer/warlock with Greater Restoration, which results in infinite level 5 spell slots) is fun for some people but not for others, and relies on your DM not banning it (it's RAW legal, but until you get to an even higher level, your DM can basically cut off your diamond supply and you're done). There are several different ways to get the spell onto your list.
could you explain the cocainelock more clearly? i dont understand how greater restoration gives you spell slots.
Okay... so as a Warlock you can taken invocation that makes it so that your character no longer requires sleep. So when everyone else is sleeping, the warlock stays up and takes multiple short rests, recovering spell slots every time. However, they combine this with Sorcerery Points... converting warlock spell slots into sorcery points, then converting those sorcery points back into spell slots. But, even if someone has a feature where they do not require sleep, even if they don't actually "sleep", you still require a proper long rest to prevent Exhaustion. However, Greater Restoration can heal exhaustion without requiring a long rest... however, each cast of that spell consumes 100gp of diamond dust. Hence the name "cocainelock"... since you're constantly awake and regularly snorting diamond powder.
Let me try and pitch a Min/Max build... which to me mostly just means a kind of complicated build that's built for really specific things and does those things well, even if it doesn't do anything else.
So, with that said... I pitch a Shifter Paladin/Barbarian multiclass.
So, right off the bat, we're going Shifter (Wildhunt), which allows you to shift forms and suddenly enemies cannot get advantage on attacks against you. Focus on Maxing out STR and CON... even though you're a Paladin, you won't need particularly high CHA, since you'll mostly just be using spell slots for smiting.
For your first level you take Paladin, mostly to get proficiency with Wisdom saving throws, since that's going to be a major weakness and you're gonna want whatever help you can get to avoid that damage. You can also get Heavy Armor, which you probably aren't going to want to wear, but it gives you options, since you don't necessarily need to rely on Rage. Anyway, you'll mostly be Paladin with just a Barbarian dip... Take Oath of Ancients, mostly for Aura of Warding... it gives you and any allies within 10 feet resistance to all damage from spells. Combined with Rage, it makes you very hard to kill.
After taking 11 levels in Paladin, then take 3 levels of Barbarian for Path of the Zealot. So, as a Wildhunt Shifter, you can take a bonus action to gain Temp HP and also prevent any creature within 30 feet of you from getting advantage against you. Combine this with Reckless Attack, and suddenly you have advantage on every single attack, and nobody has advantage to hit you. It takes two rounds to set up, but you can also combine this with Rage... now you're resistant to all mundane damage, all damage from spells, and you output crazy damage... at level 11 as a Paladin all your attacks deal an additional d8 of Radiant damage. Zealot Rage deals an additional d6+1 Radiant damage each round. You have advantage on every attack and 10 spell slots to turn into smites.
If you can spare the ASIs, grabbing Polearm Master and Great Weapon Master would make you an absolute whirlwind of death. If you have to choose just one, GWM will probably be the better choice... getting advantage mitigates the -5 to-hit while making a GWM attack.
Regarding the 'fun' aspect of play. No real help for min/maxing here, just a related thought. As a DM, and as a player, I find that someone who's play style insists on min/maxing their characters are often the least fun players for others in that group. Oftentimes that player, the DM, and others either spend an inordinate amount of time checking the books for allowances and limitations on this character powerhouse, or worse, the DM gives up and utters, "Whatever", giving the power player even more control over the game.
This may be fun for that one player, especially if 'winning' includes taking control of the game, but I'm of the opinion that this style of play can slow active play to a tedious crawl.
Regarding the 'fun' aspect of play. No real help for min/maxing here, just a related thought. As a DM, and as a player, I find that someone who's play style insists on min/maxing their characters are often the least fun players for others in that group. Oftentimes that player, the DM, and others either spend an inordinate amount of time checking the books for allowances and limitations on this character powerhouse, or worse, the DM gives up and utters, "Whatever", giving the power player even more control over the game.
This may be fun for that one player, especially if 'winning' includes taking control of the game, but I'm of the opinion that this style of play can slow active play to a tedious crawl.
As a DM I look forward to the point where characters start getting the types of powers where they can grab the story by the reins and start controlling things. Otherwise its just me being a conductor driving this train on the rails. That ain't fun.
Min/Maxing gets a bad wrap, but there ain't nothing wrong with making a character who is great at the things he's supposed to be great at. All min/max really means is specialized. And a whole party who is specialized is a party who relies on one another as a team.
Oh and I wanna amend my submission to Lorehold Evoker wizard 14 who Overchannels an upcast spirit guardians. That's the move. Cast with a 5th level slot it lasts 10 minutes, deals 40 damage to everything within 15ft per round, more if you or allies force movement. Still have Action + BA ever round to cast other spells. Is too good.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
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Must be level 14. Absolute strongest possible build that is fun. Thanks!
It is impossible to answer this question.
While there are strong builds and weak builds, you can nt be the best at everything, if you focus on single target damage you will not be as good at skill checks, or battlefield control or AoE attacks, you can not say damage dealer is better than the battle field controller they have different functions. A balanced party is one that can fulfill as many functions well as possible.
It also depends on the campaign, for example there is one published campaign entirly based in the underdarlk and another based in hell, abilities that are good in one may not be as good in another.
Fun is entirely subjective, what oneperson finds as fun someone else would hate playing. Remember however the the game should be fun for everyone. One highly optimised damage dealer could easily do twice as much damage as a typical first character for a new player. The game is likely to be less fun for a player if their character is shown to be aneamic. There are also some class features that can reduce the fun for othre players. For example the twilight cleric is very powerful either as a main class or as a 2 level dip, however the twilight sanctuary feature provides a far greater source of temporary hit-point than anythinf else in the game, is a player decides to be vHuman / custom linage and takes inspiring leader as the starting feat (a moderately strong option) only to find that the twilighty cleric gives everyone as many temporary hitpoints to everyone every round as they can give every short rest the player who chose inspiring leader will be pretty upset.
Psh.
The Sprit Dancer.
Shadar Kai. Bladesinger. Takes Lorehold background and uses Spirit Guardians and Booming Blade or Green-flame Blade while teleporting around the battlefield as your "low resource expenditure" mode, all the while being a 14th level wizard and having 7th level wizard spells to go ham with when needed. Got an AC well into the 20s, can shield/absorb element/silvery barbs/counterspell any real threats, have resistance to p/b/s after teleporting, and anyone who gets close gets slowed and nuked by the guardians.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Define your terms -- what is your measure of 'strong' and what do you consider 'fun'?
How are we supposed to know what you find fun? Or how your DM has ruled on problematically poorly worded rules?
L14 Genielock (Dao) is absolutely the strongest possible build if your DM rules in your favor every time the question comes up "Is X a requirement of Y spell?", but no DM is ever going to actually do that in practice.
A Cocainelock (that's a sorcerer/warlock with Greater Restoration, which results in infinite level 5 spell slots) is fun for some people but not for others, and relies on your DM not banning it (it's RAW legal, but until you get to an even higher level, your DM can basically cut off your diamond supply and you're done). There are several different ways to get the spell onto your list.
Changeling, L1 Rogue, L2-5 Bard: Eloquence, L6-14 Rogue: Swashbuckler: Expert Face/Infiltrator. Extreme versatility, with Expertise in 4 skills, unable to roll lower than 10 on the die for Deception and Persuasion, able to shapechange into anyone the character has seen, etc.
Elf, L1=5 Warlock, L6-14 Sorcerer: Divine Soul: Long rest in 4 hours, then chain short rests for the rest of the party's long rest for extra spell slots each day (6 Sorcery Points to be converted into spell slots for each hour-long short rest). Then if the character makes it to at least L19, take L15-19 in Bard: Creation to gain the ability to create your own Diamonds for Greater Restoration, turning the character into a true, sustainable Coffeelock, not dependent on the availability of diamonds in the setting.
What do you mean by "strongest"? Do you mean maximum damage output, maximum survivability, maximum utility?
could you explain the cocainelock more clearly? i dont understand how greater restoration gives you spell slots.
Okay... so as a Warlock you can taken invocation that makes it so that your character no longer requires sleep. So when everyone else is sleeping, the warlock stays up and takes multiple short rests, recovering spell slots every time. However, they combine this with Sorcerery Points... converting warlock spell slots into sorcery points, then converting those sorcery points back into spell slots. But, even if someone has a feature where they do not require sleep, even if they don't actually "sleep", you still require a proper long rest to prevent Exhaustion. However, Greater Restoration can heal exhaustion without requiring a long rest... however, each cast of that spell consumes 100gp of diamond dust. Hence the name "cocainelock"... since you're constantly awake and regularly snorting diamond powder.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
ok, thank you
Let me try and pitch a Min/Max build... which to me mostly just means a kind of complicated build that's built for really specific things and does those things well, even if it doesn't do anything else.
So, with that said... I pitch a Shifter Paladin/Barbarian multiclass.
So, right off the bat, we're going Shifter (Wildhunt), which allows you to shift forms and suddenly enemies cannot get advantage on attacks against you. Focus on Maxing out STR and CON... even though you're a Paladin, you won't need particularly high CHA, since you'll mostly just be using spell slots for smiting.
For your first level you take Paladin, mostly to get proficiency with Wisdom saving throws, since that's going to be a major weakness and you're gonna want whatever help you can get to avoid that damage. You can also get Heavy Armor, which you probably aren't going to want to wear, but it gives you options, since you don't necessarily need to rely on Rage. Anyway, you'll mostly be Paladin with just a Barbarian dip... Take Oath of Ancients, mostly for Aura of Warding... it gives you and any allies within 10 feet resistance to all damage from spells. Combined with Rage, it makes you very hard to kill.
After taking 11 levels in Paladin, then take 3 levels of Barbarian for Path of the Zealot. So, as a Wildhunt Shifter, you can take a bonus action to gain Temp HP and also prevent any creature within 30 feet of you from getting advantage against you. Combine this with Reckless Attack, and suddenly you have advantage on every single attack, and nobody has advantage to hit you. It takes two rounds to set up, but you can also combine this with Rage... now you're resistant to all mundane damage, all damage from spells, and you output crazy damage... at level 11 as a Paladin all your attacks deal an additional d8 of Radiant damage. Zealot Rage deals an additional d6+1 Radiant damage each round. You have advantage on every attack and 10 spell slots to turn into smites.
If you can spare the ASIs, grabbing Polearm Master and Great Weapon Master would make you an absolute whirlwind of death. If you have to choose just one, GWM will probably be the better choice... getting advantage mitigates the -5 to-hit while making a GWM attack.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
Regarding the 'fun' aspect of play. No real help for min/maxing here, just a related thought. As a DM, and as a player, I find that someone who's play style insists on min/maxing their characters are often the least fun players for others in that group. Oftentimes that player, the DM, and others either spend an inordinate amount of time checking the books for allowances and limitations on this character powerhouse, or worse, the DM gives up and utters, "Whatever", giving the power player even more control over the game.
This may be fun for that one player, especially if 'winning' includes taking control of the game, but I'm of the opinion that this style of play can slow active play to a tedious crawl.
We need to know why you're looking for the "strongest" build. D&D isn't an MMO.
[REDACTED]
where does the fun part come in?
As a DM I look forward to the point where characters start getting the types of powers where they can grab the story by the reins and start controlling things. Otherwise its just me being a conductor driving this train on the rails. That ain't fun.
Min/Maxing gets a bad wrap, but there ain't nothing wrong with making a character who is great at the things he's supposed to be great at. All min/max really means is specialized. And a whole party who is specialized is a party who relies on one another as a team.
Oh and I wanna amend my submission to Lorehold Evoker wizard 14 who Overchannels an upcast spirit guardians. That's the move. Cast with a 5th level slot it lasts 10 minutes, deals 40 damage to everything within 15ft per round, more if you or allies force movement. Still have Action + BA ever round to cast other spells. Is too good.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.