I am now going to be starting a campaign from level 10, and have decided to go with a multi-classed Wood Elf Archer build. The aim is essentially to be the Elfiest Wood Elf who has ever Elfed with a Longbow. (I am sure you can do better from an optimization perspective with different races/weapons, but I am trying to take this trope to its ultimate conclusion within 5e rules). The emphasis is on nova damage, stealth, mobility, initiative, and perception. To give you an idea of the concept, if this was a one-off 10 level adventure, I would have gone Rogue 2, Gloom Stalker Ranger 5, Fighter 2, and Twilight Cleric 1. The progression from that start is tough to work, so here is my potential starting point in a nutshell:
Dexterity/Wisdom/Constitution Build Wood Elf; Folk Hero Background; Chaotic Good Rogue 2; Battlemaster Fighter 5; Gloom Stalker Ranger 3 Fighting Styles: Archery; Mariner FIghter ASI used for Sharpshooter Feat Skill Proficiencies: Acrobatics; Animal Handling; Insight (Ranger Canny Boost); Nature; Perception (Expertise); Sleight of Hand; Stealth (Expertise); Survival Spells: Absorb Elements, Goodberry, Speak with Animals; Disguise Self (From Gloomstalker) Equipment: 2 chosen uncommons - Bracers of Archery and Efficient Quiver. I also have enough gold to purchase a +1 Longbow, Studded Leather +1, and 2 +1 Scimitars, which hopefully be rarely used given Cunning Action use each turn.
Within the next five levels, the aim would be to take 2 levels of Rogue for Assassin and an ASI, 1 level each of Fighter and Ranger for another two ASIs, and a level of Twilight Cleric. The ASIs would be used to take 3 of the 4 following Feats: Alert; Elven Accuracy; Lucky; Wood Elf Magic. In what order would you take those levels and feats?
In the unlikely event that things went beyond level 15, the build would close with 4 levels of Rogue and a 2nd level of Twilight Cleric.
Dang, this is a well thought out build. Normally I'm not a fan of complicated multiclass builds, but these all do feed off of each other pretty well. As for the order I would take your next levels in...
Right off the bat, take one level of Rogue to hit Assassin. You're already pretty front-loaded for stealthy ambushes, and this would complete that pretty handily. Now you really want to be going first in combat as much as possible, so I would snag that one level of Twilight Cleric right here mainly for Vigilant Blessing, which functionally gives you advantage on all initiative rolls. After that you're just going for feats, so it doesn't particularly matter what class is tied to which, but I think you should at least do Fighter and Ranger first for the d10 hit die. Anyway, the first feat I would grab is Elven Accuracy... combine with a Rogue's cunning action and the Sharpshooter feat, Elven Accuracy is absolutely devastating. Then I would go for Alert to double down on your boost to initiative. As for Lucky or Wood Elf Magic... I don't think either of them will be particularly game-changing for you, but of the two I like Wood Elf Magic a bit more. Lucky is a good, reliable feat that occasionally leads to some wild moments, but I find it kind of boring. It doesn't really open you up to any new options or strategies... it's mostly just a safety net. Wood Elf Magic gets you some unique new abilities... of the Druid Cantrips I'd recommend Guidance. You don't really need any help dealing damage with this build, but Guidance is useful in a ton of little ways that always feel rewarding to contribute to. Plus, it can still contribute to your Initiative... Rolling for Initiative is a skill check, and if you're just constantly casting Guidance on yourself you can get a +1d4 added to your Initiative roll.
Level 11: Rogue 3 Assassin. Level 12: Twilight Cleric 1. This moved up the list just about every time I looked at it more closely given the initiative boost and the super darkvision which enhances the possibilities for ranged attacks in the dark. Sehanine Moonbow is an easy and fitting choice for the Deity. What would you suggest for cantrips? I suppose it would make sense to go for Guidance plus two others and do something else with Wood Elf Magic? Level 13: 3: Ranger 4 Elven Accuracy. The additional Ranger level also takes the spell slots from 3 1st level, to 4 1st level and 2 2nd level. Level 14: Fighter 6 Alert Level 15: Rogue 4 Wood Elf Magic. I like this feat more and more when I look at it: (1) Group Stealth from Pass without Trace; (2) Longstrider cast at the correct moment would give 55 foot movement in the first round - enough in most circumstances to get to cover by the end of the first round with normal movement plus a Dash. (Or with close cover, Move, Attack, and Hide) If I took Guidance as one of the Cantrips at Level 12, what would suggest from amongst the Druid List?
I am definitely keeping Mariner as it suits the backstory and provides mobility advantages.
For your Cleric level, the cantrips I would recommend are Guidance, obviously, and I would also snag Toll the Dead. It won't get used regularly for you, but it's most useful against enemies with a high AC that you're having trouble hitting. It's potentially the highest damage dealing cantrip in the game, since it deals a d12 of necrotic damage against any enemy that's already taken damage. Finally I would grab Mending... it's a great utility cantrip that, like Toll the Dead, probably won't get used regularly, but it can really save you for things like... repairing broken keys, securing ropes, etc.
As for your Druid spell, since you're getting Guidance from your Cleric dip... there's a lot of good options, but I'm going to vote for Mold Earth. It's most useful when you're setting up an ambush or preparing a camp for the night, but you can use it to build cover for yourself, set up pit traps, bury something you don't want found... there's just a lot you can do, provided you have the time to set it up ahead of time. You likely won't use it much in combat... at best if there's a bottle neck through a narrow passage you could turn a portion of it into difficult terrain to slow enemies down, but it's very hard to use efficiently once things are actually going down.
You didn’t build for optimization, but a Battlemaster + 3 Gloomstalker Archer is a known very deadly combination. If you use your Superiority Dice for Precision Attack, coupled with the SS Feat, that alone turns you into a wrecking ball. Now at Gloomstalker and it’s ridiculous.
But yeah, thematically it obviously also fits. If you want to turn down the dial on being optimized, so you can turn UP the dial on being thematic… I would forego Precision Attack in favor of the maneuvers that give you a Robinhood vibe. Things like Disarming Attack and Trip Attack.
To be honest, I am doing my best to optimize within the bounds of the character theme. BM + GS fits so well that I do not feel guilty about it LOL.
Disarming Attack is my favorite BM maneuver, and one of my choices. Trip Attack is a close second, but Ambush and Precision Attack round things out for me, as they mesh so well with what this character is and does. (I considered Evasive Footwork as well, but between taking Zephyr Strike as one of my spells, and the ability to Disengage as a BA, this character is already very slippery).
To be honest, I am doing my best to optimize within the bounds of the character theme. BM + GS fits so well that I do not feel guilty about it LOL.
Disarming Attack is my favorite BM maneuver, and one of my choices. Trip Attack is a close second, but Ambush and Precision Attack round things out for me, as they mesh so well with what this character is and does. (I considered Evasive Footwork as well, but between taking Zephyr Strike as one of my spells, and the ability to Disengage as a BA, this character is already very slippery).
You shouldn’t feel guilty either way. I’m in the “pro-choice” for optimizing camp.
In your case, the most optimized choice is to save all your Superiority Dice for Precision Attack. It’s just SO powerful when paired with the +10 / -5 power attacks. But it’s kind of boring, and all of the trick shots like Disarming Attack are way cooler, especially for an archer. I love the visuals of someone with a bow shooting a sword out of someone’s hand.
It can also be very effective with good teamwork. Paying attention to initiative order is key here.
Session 1 went well. Disguise Self, Goodberry, and Zephyr Strike all proved to be critical at various points. I never did get to use Disarming Attack, but Ambush and Precision Attack worked as intended. The opening nova burst at the beginning of the final fight was excellent for establishing the rough AC of the boss, and Zephyr Strike provided a source of advantage and extra damage. The end point in the session came when the very high AC boss was knocked prone by a Grease spell, and I was able to unleash a final Sharpshooter attack for the win. The play was reminiscent of a 2e Fighter/Magicuser/Thief absent the offensive spellcasting, which did not matter since the ranged attacks were so potent.
This is going to be fun. Many thanks to everyone for the input!
Session 1 went well. Disguise Self, Goodberry, and Zephyr Strike all proved to be critical at various points. I never did get to use Disarming Attack, but Ambush and Precision Attack worked as intended. The opening nova burst at the beginning of the final fight was excellent for establishing the rough AC of the boss, and Zephyr Strike provided a source of advantage and extra damage. The end point in the session came when the very high AC boss was knocked prone by a Grease spell, and I was able to unleash a final Sharpshooter attack for the win. The play was reminiscent of a 2e Fighter/Magicuser/Thief absent the offensive spellcasting, which did not matter since the ranged attacks were so potent.
This is going to be fun. Many thanks to everyone for the input!
If the SS shot was from more than 5 feet away it’s supposed to be with disadvantage.
Prone
A prone creature's only movement option is to crawl, unless it stands up and thereby ends the condition.
The creature has disadvantage on attack rolls.
An attack roll against the creature has advantage if the attacker is within 5 feet of the creature. Otherwise, the attack roll has disadvantage
So this character has been a real blast to play, and I am hoping to tap the hive mind on a future leveling option. She is currently level 14 (Rogue Assassin 4/Gloom Stalker Ranger 4/Battlemaster Fighter 5/Twilight Cleric 1). Because reasons and plot, I have diverged slightly from the plan in the posts above - with the latest leveling I took the Fey Touched feat (already had Sharpshooter and Elven Accuracy), which not only provides some more combat casting options, but allowed me to take Charisma to 13, opening up more multi-classing options. At level 15, I plan on taking a level of fighter, and taking the Lucky feat. At level 16, the current plan is to take a level of Divine Soul Sorcerer, because reasons and plot. I could use some advice on cantrips and spell choices.
She can currently cast the following without a slot, once/day: Hunter's Mark (Fey Touched); Misty Step (Fey Touched); Speak With Animals (Primal Awareness)
All that said, with a level in Divine Soul Sorcerer: (Keeping in mind that these choices can be from either the Sorcerer or Cleric list) What four cantrips would you take? What two spells would you take?
Couldn't you have taken Hunter's Mark from Ranger spells, freeing up your Fey Touched 1st level choice for something like Silvery Barbs, or Gift of Alacrity instead?
As for adding sorc? I'd highly suggest Control Flames. It is Verbal only, so you can cast it while sneaking around without being overheard. And it lets you dim or snuff out light sources. Phenomenal for a stealthy nightwalker like yourself. I'd probably also suggest mage hand and message, both good for skullduggery for their own reasons. For the last one maybe Mold Earth? You can make your own cover? Idk.
My 2 spell suggestions are Shield and Feather Fall. You have a level of cleric for preparing cleric spells, best to use your 2 sorc spells for arcane ones.
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Couldn't you have taken Hunter's Mark from Ranger spells, freeing up your Fey Touched 1st level choice for something like Silvery Barbs, or Gift of Alacrity instead?
As for adding sorc? I'd highly suggest Control Flames. It is Verbal only, so you can cast it while sneaking around without being overheard. And it lets you dim or snuff out light sources. Phenomenal for a stealthy nightwalker like yourself. I'd probably also suggest mage hand and message, both good for skullduggery for their own reasons. For the last one maybe Mold Earth? You can make your own cover? Idk.
My 2 spell suggestions are Shield and Feather Fall. You have a level of cleric for preparing cleric spells, best to use your 2 sorc spells for arcane ones.
Could have taken Hunter's Mark earlier but did not LOL. I do not regret it. Absorb Elements has saved her from more than one knockout. Goodberry has been responsible for more in-combat revivals from unconsciousness than our Cleric. Zephyr Strike has been vital, not only in chaotic battles with bunches of MOBS, but also escaping from an infiltration. It ultimately made sense to take it, however, as her current bonus action options now include: Dash, Disengage, Hide, Hunter's Mark, Misty Step, Steady Aim, Zephyr Strike. It is enough to make a DM cry - or actively metagame LOL.
Gift of Alacrity crossed my radar, but when you effectively have continuous advantage on initiative through Vigilant Blessing, a +8 modifier through Dexterity and Dread Ambusher, and an on-demand additional d8 through the Ambush maneuver, you can go first most of the time. The only value to be gained is for fellow party members, but there are better things to be done with the limited spell slots.
Silvery Barbs is on the short list for one of the two Sorcerer spells, as is Feather Fall, as are Mage Hand and Message amongst the cantrips. I had not considered Control Flames but I love the suggestion. Mold Earth sounds solid.
Many thanks for the suggestions; everyone else, please tell me why my choices are foolish LOL.
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I recently started playing 5e with a Wood Elf Fighter starting from level 1. Build here: https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/class-forums/fighter/140270-elvish-archer-build-tips?comment=23; Antics here: https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/d-d-beyond-general/story-lore/141568-my-dm-used-my-pc-as-a-macguffin-and-it-worked-in-a. This character is at level 7, on a pure fighter build.
I am now going to be starting a campaign from level 10, and have decided to go with a multi-classed Wood Elf Archer build. The aim is essentially to be the Elfiest Wood Elf who has ever Elfed with a Longbow. (I am sure you can do better from an optimization perspective with different races/weapons, but I am trying to take this trope to its ultimate conclusion within 5e rules). The emphasis is on nova damage, stealth, mobility, initiative, and perception. To give you an idea of the concept, if this was a one-off 10 level adventure, I would have gone Rogue 2, Gloom Stalker Ranger 5, Fighter 2, and Twilight Cleric 1. The progression from that start is tough to work, so here is my potential starting point in a nutshell:
Dexterity/Wisdom/Constitution Build
Wood Elf; Folk Hero Background; Chaotic Good
Rogue 2; Battlemaster Fighter 5; Gloom Stalker Ranger 3
Fighting Styles: Archery; Mariner
FIghter ASI used for Sharpshooter Feat
Skill Proficiencies: Acrobatics; Animal Handling; Insight (Ranger Canny Boost); Nature; Perception (Expertise); Sleight of Hand; Stealth (Expertise); Survival
Spells: Absorb Elements, Goodberry, Speak with Animals; Disguise Self (From Gloomstalker)
Equipment: 2 chosen uncommons - Bracers of Archery and Efficient Quiver. I also have enough gold to purchase a +1 Longbow, Studded Leather +1, and 2 +1 Scimitars, which hopefully be rarely used given Cunning Action use each turn.
Within the next five levels, the aim would be to take 2 levels of Rogue for Assassin and an ASI, 1 level each of Fighter and Ranger for another two ASIs, and a level of Twilight Cleric. The ASIs would be used to take 3 of the 4 following Feats: Alert; Elven Accuracy; Lucky; Wood Elf Magic. In what order would you take those levels and feats?
In the unlikely event that things went beyond level 15, the build would close with 4 levels of Rogue and a 2nd level of Twilight Cleric.
Comments/Thoughts/Criticism/Better Ideas Welcome. Thanks!
Dang, this is a well thought out build. Normally I'm not a fan of complicated multiclass builds, but these all do feed off of each other pretty well. As for the order I would take your next levels in...
Right off the bat, take one level of Rogue to hit Assassin. You're already pretty front-loaded for stealthy ambushes, and this would complete that pretty handily. Now you really want to be going first in combat as much as possible, so I would snag that one level of Twilight Cleric right here mainly for Vigilant Blessing, which functionally gives you advantage on all initiative rolls. After that you're just going for feats, so it doesn't particularly matter what class is tied to which, but I think you should at least do Fighter and Ranger first for the d10 hit die. Anyway, the first feat I would grab is Elven Accuracy... combine with a Rogue's cunning action and the Sharpshooter feat, Elven Accuracy is absolutely devastating. Then I would go for Alert to double down on your boost to initiative. As for Lucky or Wood Elf Magic... I don't think either of them will be particularly game-changing for you, but of the two I like Wood Elf Magic a bit more. Lucky is a good, reliable feat that occasionally leads to some wild moments, but I find it kind of boring. It doesn't really open you up to any new options or strategies... it's mostly just a safety net. Wood Elf Magic gets you some unique new abilities... of the Druid Cantrips I'd recommend Guidance. You don't really need any help dealing damage with this build, but Guidance is useful in a ton of little ways that always feel rewarding to contribute to. Plus, it can still contribute to your Initiative... Rolling for Initiative is a skill check, and if you're just constantly casting Guidance on yourself you can get a +1d4 added to your Initiative roll.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
I would maybe take Superior Technique for a extra d6 Superiority die and another maneuver over Mariner.
Many thanks. I will definitely go as follows:
Level 11: Rogue 3 Assassin.
Level 12: Twilight Cleric 1. This moved up the list just about every time I looked at it more closely given the initiative boost and the super darkvision which enhances the possibilities for ranged attacks in the dark. Sehanine Moonbow is an easy and fitting choice for the Deity. What would you suggest for cantrips? I suppose it would make sense to go for Guidance plus two others and do something else with Wood Elf Magic?
Level 13: 3: Ranger 4 Elven Accuracy. The additional Ranger level also takes the spell slots from 3 1st level, to 4 1st level and 2 2nd level.
Level 14: Fighter 6 Alert
Level 15: Rogue 4 Wood Elf Magic. I like this feat more and more when I look at it: (1) Group Stealth from Pass without Trace; (2) Longstrider cast at the correct moment would give 55 foot movement in the first round - enough in most circumstances to get to cover by the end of the first round with normal movement plus a Dash. (Or with close cover, Move, Attack, and Hide) If I took Guidance as one of the Cantrips at Level 12, what would suggest from amongst the Druid List?
I am definitely keeping Mariner as it suits the backstory and provides mobility advantages.
For your Cleric level, the cantrips I would recommend are Guidance, obviously, and I would also snag Toll the Dead. It won't get used regularly for you, but it's most useful against enemies with a high AC that you're having trouble hitting. It's potentially the highest damage dealing cantrip in the game, since it deals a d12 of necrotic damage against any enemy that's already taken damage. Finally I would grab Mending... it's a great utility cantrip that, like Toll the Dead, probably won't get used regularly, but it can really save you for things like... repairing broken keys, securing ropes, etc.
As for your Druid spell, since you're getting Guidance from your Cleric dip... there's a lot of good options, but I'm going to vote for Mold Earth. It's most useful when you're setting up an ambush or preparing a camp for the night, but you can use it to build cover for yourself, set up pit traps, bury something you don't want found... there's just a lot you can do, provided you have the time to set it up ahead of time. You likely won't use it much in combat... at best if there's a bottle neck through a narrow passage you could turn a portion of it into difficult terrain to slow enemies down, but it's very hard to use efficiently once things are actually going down.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
You didn’t build for optimization, but a Battlemaster + 3 Gloomstalker Archer is a known very deadly combination. If you use your Superiority Dice for Precision Attack, coupled with the SS Feat, that alone turns you into a wrecking ball. Now at Gloomstalker and it’s ridiculous.
But yeah, thematically it obviously also fits. If you want to turn down the dial on being optimized, so you can turn UP the dial on being thematic… I would forego Precision Attack in favor of the maneuvers that give you a Robinhood vibe. Things like Disarming Attack and Trip Attack.
To be honest, I am doing my best to optimize within the bounds of the character theme. BM + GS fits so well that I do not feel guilty about it LOL.
Disarming Attack is my favorite BM maneuver, and one of my choices. Trip Attack is a close second, but Ambush and Precision Attack round things out for me, as they mesh so well with what this character is and does. (I considered Evasive Footwork as well, but between taking Zephyr Strike as one of my spells, and the ability to Disengage as a BA, this character is already very slippery).
You shouldn’t feel guilty either way. I’m in the “pro-choice” for optimizing camp.
In your case, the most optimized choice is to save all your Superiority Dice for Precision Attack. It’s just SO powerful when paired with the +10 / -5 power attacks. But it’s kind of boring, and all of the trick shots like Disarming Attack are way cooler, especially for an archer. I love the visuals of someone with a bow shooting a sword out of someone’s hand.
It can also be very effective with good teamwork. Paying attention to initiative order is key here.
Session 1 went well. Disguise Self, Goodberry, and Zephyr Strike all proved to be critical at various points. I never did get to use Disarming Attack, but Ambush and Precision Attack worked as intended. The opening nova burst at the beginning of the final fight was excellent for establishing the rough AC of the boss, and Zephyr Strike provided a source of advantage and extra damage. The end point in the session came when the very high AC boss was knocked prone by a Grease spell, and I was able to unleash a final Sharpshooter attack for the win. The play was reminiscent of a 2e Fighter/Magicuser/Thief absent the offensive spellcasting, which did not matter since the ranged attacks were so potent.
This is going to be fun. Many thanks to everyone for the input!
If the SS shot was from more than 5 feet away it’s supposed to be with disadvantage.
Prone
Greetings all!
So this character has been a real blast to play, and I am hoping to tap the hive mind on a future leveling option. She is currently level 14 (Rogue Assassin 4/Gloom Stalker Ranger 4/Battlemaster Fighter 5/Twilight Cleric 1). Because reasons and plot, I have diverged slightly from the plan in the posts above - with the latest leveling I took the Fey Touched feat (already had Sharpshooter and Elven Accuracy), which not only provides some more combat casting options, but allowed me to take Charisma to 13, opening up more multi-classing options. At level 15, I plan on taking a level of fighter, and taking the Lucky feat. At level 16, the current plan is to take a level of Divine Soul Sorcerer, because reasons and plot. I could use some advice on cantrips and spell choices.
She can currently cast the following without a slot, once/day: Hunter's Mark (Fey Touched); Misty Step (Fey Touched); Speak With Animals (Primal Awareness)
Ranger Spells: Absorb Elements; Disguise Self (From Gloomstalker); Goodberry; Zephyr Strike
Cleric Cantrips: Guidance, Mending, Toll the Dead
Cleric Domain Spells: Faerie Fire; Sleep
All that said, with a level in Divine Soul Sorcerer: (Keeping in mind that these choices can be from either the Sorcerer or Cleric list)
What four cantrips would you take?
What two spells would you take?
Couldn't you have taken Hunter's Mark from Ranger spells, freeing up your Fey Touched 1st level choice for something like Silvery Barbs, or Gift of Alacrity instead?
As for adding sorc? I'd highly suggest Control Flames. It is Verbal only, so you can cast it while sneaking around without being overheard. And it lets you dim or snuff out light sources. Phenomenal for a stealthy nightwalker like yourself. I'd probably also suggest mage hand and message, both good for skullduggery for their own reasons. For the last one maybe Mold Earth? You can make your own cover? Idk.
My 2 spell suggestions are Shield and Feather Fall. You have a level of cleric for preparing cleric spells, best to use your 2 sorc spells for arcane ones.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Could have taken Hunter's Mark earlier but did not LOL. I do not regret it. Absorb Elements has saved her from more than one knockout. Goodberry has been responsible for more in-combat revivals from unconsciousness than our Cleric. Zephyr Strike has been vital, not only in chaotic battles with bunches of MOBS, but also escaping from an infiltration. It ultimately made sense to take it, however, as her current bonus action options now include: Dash, Disengage, Hide, Hunter's Mark, Misty Step, Steady Aim, Zephyr Strike. It is enough to make a DM cry - or actively metagame LOL.
Gift of Alacrity crossed my radar, but when you effectively have continuous advantage on initiative through Vigilant Blessing, a +8 modifier through Dexterity and Dread Ambusher, and an on-demand additional d8 through the Ambush maneuver, you can go first most of the time. The only value to be gained is for fellow party members, but there are better things to be done with the limited spell slots.
Silvery Barbs is on the short list for one of the two Sorcerer spells, as is Feather Fall, as are Mage Hand and Message amongst the cantrips. I had not considered Control Flames but I love the suggestion. Mold Earth sounds solid.
Many thanks for the suggestions; everyone else, please tell me why my choices are foolish LOL.