We’re a group of 4 level 3 pcs. Our Dm has us against 3 ogres, 12 goblins, and a goblin spellcaster. WTF? He’s never given us an opportunity to upgrade equipment from starting and we’ve never found and healing items. There’s no way we can win this upcoming fight.
Yeah that looks rough, but an OP encounter doesn't necessarily mean he's a crappy DM. It could be that he's setting up a different type of scenario. Maybe you need to run. Maybe his plan is to capture you and now you have to escape or they take you to a completely different place where you are freed by someone else. There's a lot of way it could go. If you really just don't enjoy his DM style, have a chat with him and address the concerns. If that doesn't help, find a new DM.
Palace revolt: Take the chair, crown yourself the new GM.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Well you have two options. Let the encounter go on as usual and hope you survive. Like was mentioned it may be that you are supposed to lose and get captured...or maybe some other force will rescue you as part of the story. Worst case you TPK and everyone starts a new character. Being such low level it is definitely not end of the world.
As mentioned above, just because a fight is unwinnable doesn't mean your DM is bad. Just think about any good book or movie, there is often situations in the beginning of the story where the heroes lose, or have to flee, and then have to spend time preparing before coming back to beat the bad guys.
Other reasons this could have happened: 1) The DM is setting up a these enemies as a recurring challenge that you cannot beat right now and will have to find a way to escape, prepare and return. 2) The DM is showing the party that they have been reckless or made a poor decision and they have taken on something they are not ready for. - D&D is about choices & consequences, in a big campaign there will be things in the world that you can't take on yet. 3) The DM is trying to teach the party not to murder-hobo, and that they need to be strategic in approaching challenges not run in head first. 4) The DM wants to change it up, and have the party be captured or run a chase scene. 5) The DM is inexperienced and are following a module it could be the module writer is bad.
Level three is not that high to not have upgraded from starting gear, considering how quickly you level up at low levels. And you know this is the setup of an upcoming encounter, meaning your DM has given you time to prepare, instead of springing that kind of encounter at you in the beginning/middle of a session. It sounds like there's a misalignment of expectations, and you should talk to your DM (and the rest of the party -- are they feeling the same as you, or are you the only one who feels this way?) just to make sure things are clear, but I don't think this is a crappy DM -- which hopefully means they'll listen to your concerns if you present them politely.
Yeah, um... Don't do that without some discussion first.
Well - yes and no. When I was younger, palace revolts were as common as muck. It served a purpose: It weeded out the really bad GM's, leaving us with a core of competent ones. And it cost us only one friend over all those years. It's not conflict-free, but it may well be necessary.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Keep in mind that not every "encounter" is meant to be used as a combat "encounter" maybe you're meant to talk to these folks and see what they are on about. Not every problem needs to be solved with a sword and shield. The best offense is usually a good bard who can convince the monsters they love her or him instead!
Yeah, um... Don't do that without some discussion first.
Well - yes and no. When I was younger, palace revolts were as common as muck. It served a purpose: It weeded out the really bad GM's, leaving us with a core of competent ones. And it cost us only one friend over all those years. It's not conflict-free, but it may well be necessary.
My reasoning was that conflict may be avoided and entirely unnecessary if you just talk things over.
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Paladin main who spends most of his D&D time worldbuilding or DMing, not Paladin-ing.
My reasoning was that conflict may be avoided and entirely unnecessary if you just talk things over.
That's possible, but not always the case. Everything living we ever see around us has grown from conflict, and while conflict for the sake of conflict is pointless, none the less conflict is the primary driver of change.
If no one had ever told me what I'm bad at, I might never have become better.
But I agree: If you don't have to, don't step on anyone's feelings. Palace revolts can be comparatively peaceful. I've been dismissed from the GM's chair many times, and never felt bad about it. I'm not the best GM in my group, but I am the most productive. The best happens to be the least productive. We all have our talents =)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
There's not enough information. Maybe the DM sucks, but maybe they are just using that many enemies to force you to do something other than a full frontal assault and you need to think more creatively.
Maybe create a diversion to separate the enemy forces into more manageable chunks. Maybe you can take them out 1 by 1 using guerilla tactics. Maybe there's an environmental hazard you can use like an explosive barrel or animals that you can incite to stampede to take out a bunch of them. Maybe there are prisoners you can rescue and rally to help you...
Like I said, there's not enough information to judge if this is a DM problem or a Player problem.
This is very basic but I think it should be said: If you don't like your DM, don't play his games. You are playing for fun. All of you. If you don't have fun playing together, why play together? Sometimes we complicate our lives in the most absurd way.
Maybe there is an option other than straight fighting? Persuasion, intimidation, fleeing?
If as a group, you are not having fun, talk to the DM about it. Tell him what your expectations are. Some groups may want super challenging fights.
I'm in an online campaign where we feel like we have no good solutions for the problem in front of us. The players discussed what to do for over an hour and we ended for the night. Next morning I sent an out of the box solution. They can take it or leave it, but that the best I can do. That's me avoiding another hour or two or the party spinning its wheels. It's better than just getting frustrated.
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Food, Scifi/fantasy, anime, DND 5E and OSR geek.
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We’re a group of 4 level 3 pcs. Our Dm has us against 3 ogres, 12 goblins, and a goblin spellcaster. WTF? He’s never given us an opportunity to upgrade equipment from starting and we’ve never found and healing items. There’s no way we can win this upcoming fight.
Yeah that looks rough, but an OP encounter doesn't necessarily mean he's a crappy DM. It could be that he's setting up a different type of scenario. Maybe you need to run. Maybe his plan is to capture you and now you have to escape or they take you to a completely different place where you are freed by someone else. There's a lot of way it could go. If you really just don't enjoy his DM style, have a chat with him and address the concerns. If that doesn't help, find a new DM.
Palace revolt: Take the chair, crown yourself the new GM.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Yeah, um... Don't do that without some discussion first.
Paladin main who spends most of his D&D time worldbuilding or DMing, not Paladin-ing.
Well you have two options. Let the encounter go on as usual and hope you survive. Like was mentioned it may be that you are supposed to lose and get captured...or maybe some other force will rescue you as part of the story. Worst case you TPK and everyone starts a new character. Being such low level it is definitely not end of the world.
Other option is to switch DMs.
As mentioned above, just because a fight is unwinnable doesn't mean your DM is bad. Just think about any good book or movie, there is often situations in the beginning of the story where the heroes lose, or have to flee, and then have to spend time preparing before coming back to beat the bad guys.
Other reasons this could have happened:
1) The DM is setting up a these enemies as a recurring challenge that you cannot beat right now and will have to find a way to escape, prepare and return.
2) The DM is showing the party that they have been reckless or made a poor decision and they have taken on something they are not ready for. - D&D is about choices & consequences, in a big campaign there will be things in the world that you can't take on yet.
3) The DM is trying to teach the party not to murder-hobo, and that they need to be strategic in approaching challenges not run in head first.
4) The DM wants to change it up, and have the party be captured or run a chase scene.
5) The DM is inexperienced and are following a module it could be the module writer is bad.
Level three is not that high to not have upgraded from starting gear, considering how quickly you level up at low levels. And you know this is the setup of an upcoming encounter, meaning your DM has given you time to prepare, instead of springing that kind of encounter at you in the beginning/middle of a session. It sounds like there's a misalignment of expectations, and you should talk to your DM (and the rest of the party -- are they feeling the same as you, or are you the only one who feels this way?) just to make sure things are clear, but I don't think this is a crappy DM -- which hopefully means they'll listen to your concerns if you present them politely.
Birgit | Shifter | Sorcerer | Dragonlords
Shayone | Hobgoblin | Sorcerer | Netherdeep
Well - yes and no. When I was younger, palace revolts were as common as muck. It served a purpose: It weeded out the really bad GM's, leaving us with a core of competent ones. And it cost us only one friend over all those years. It's not conflict-free, but it may well be necessary.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Keep in mind that not every "encounter" is meant to be used as a combat "encounter" maybe you're meant to talk to these folks and see what they are on about. Not every problem needs to be solved with a sword and shield. The best offense is usually a good bard who can convince the monsters they love her or him instead!
My reasoning was that conflict may be avoided and entirely unnecessary if you just talk things over.
Paladin main who spends most of his D&D time worldbuilding or DMing, not Paladin-ing.
That's possible, but not always the case. Everything living we ever see around us has grown from conflict, and while conflict for the sake of conflict is pointless, none the less conflict is the primary driver of change.
If no one had ever told me what I'm bad at, I might never have become better.
But I agree: If you don't have to, don't step on anyone's feelings. Palace revolts can be comparatively peaceful. I've been dismissed from the GM's chair many times, and never felt bad about it. I'm not the best GM in my group, but I am the most productive. The best happens to be the least productive. We all have our talents =)
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
How did this end up going over?
There's not enough information. Maybe the DM sucks, but maybe they are just using that many enemies to force you to do something other than a full frontal assault and you need to think more creatively.
Maybe create a diversion to separate the enemy forces into more manageable chunks. Maybe you can take them out 1 by 1 using guerilla tactics. Maybe there's an environmental hazard you can use like an explosive barrel or animals that you can incite to stampede to take out a bunch of them. Maybe there are prisoners you can rescue and rally to help you...
Like I said, there's not enough information to judge if this is a DM problem or a Player problem.
This is very basic but I think it should be said: If you don't like your DM, don't play his games. You are playing for fun. All of you. If you don't have fun playing together, why play together? Sometimes we complicate our lives in the most absurd way.
I mean, have your characters act in character.
Nope out of it. Every time he gives you too great of a challenge, have sensible characters that run the heck away.
That's a lesson DMs and Players both need to learn!
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Maybe there is an option other than straight fighting? Persuasion, intimidation, fleeing?
If as a group, you are not having fun, talk to the DM about it. Tell him what your expectations are. Some groups may want super challenging fights.
I'm in an online campaign where we feel like we have no good solutions for the problem in front of us. The players discussed what to do for over an hour and we ended for the night. Next morning I sent an out of the box solution. They can take it or leave it, but that the best I can do. That's me avoiding another hour or two or the party spinning its wheels. It's better than just getting frustrated.
Food, Scifi/fantasy, anime, DND 5E and OSR geek.