Seems that the biggest hiccup to casting Polymorph on yourself is having to make frequent CON saves from taking damage. Most of the relevant beast forms (and by relevant I mean the new form has to be doing something more than you would on your own) are melee based and have bad AC. The question is, would War Caster provide enough of an advantage to help with this if you don't have a good CON save already?
Druids (especially moon druids) deal with this often. Warcaster helps, especially at lower levels, but if you're just focusing on the concentration aspect of the feat it's generally agreed that Resilient(con) is the better way to go for the long game.
Druids (especially moon druids) deal with this often. Warcaster helps, especially at lower levels, but if you're just focusing on the concentration aspect of the feat it's generally agreed that Resilient(con) is the better way to go for the long game.
Unless I've missed something, wildshape does not require concentration.
Correct, wild shape does not require concentration, but it is rare that a moon druid enters combat without some form of concentration spell running. Standard practice is to cast something like flaming sphere or entangle and then run into combat. Since beast AC is pretty lackluster the moon druid ends up rolling A LOT of concentration checks.
Correct, wild shape does not require concentration, but it is rare that a moon druid enters combat without some form of concentration spell running. Standard practice is to cast something like flaming sphere or entangle and then run into combat. Since beast AC is pretty lackluster the moon druid ends up rolling A LOT of concentration checks.
Seems that the biggest hiccup to casting Polymorph on yourself is having to make frequent CON saves from taking damage. Most of the relevant beast forms (and by relevant I mean the new form has to be doing something more than you would on your own) are melee based and have bad AC. The question is, would War Caster provide enough of an advantage to help with this if you don't have a good CON save already?
When you polymorph, none of your features carry over except your alignment and personality. War Caster, for instance, would not carry over.
Note that this is different from a druid's Wild Shape, which DOES explicitly say that features carry over (as long as the new form is capable of using them).
Seems that the biggest hiccup to casting Polymorph on yourself is having to make frequent CON saves from taking damage. Most of the relevant beast forms (and by relevant I mean the new form has to be doing something more than you would on your own) are melee based and have bad AC. The question is, would War Caster provide enough of an advantage to help with this if you don't have a good CON save already?
When you polymorph, none of your features carry over except your alignment and personality. War Caster, for instance, would not carry over.
Note that this is different from a druid's Wild Shape, which DOES explicitly say that features carry over (as long as the new form is capable of using them).
This is the correct answer. Feats won't help at all.
The biggest issue with polymorphing an ally or yourself is that the person polymorphed adopts the intelligence of the creature it's been changed into.
A creature with animal intelligence can't understand language, and will likely forget the plans/objectives they had while they were in their original form.
The biggest issue with polymorphing an ally or yourself is that the person polymorphed adopts the intelligence of the creature it's been changed into.
A creature with animal intelligence can't understand language, and will likely forget the plans/objectives they had while they were in their original form.
Some of this is a decision for the table, dogs (int 3) can understand simple commands and giant apes have an intelligence comparable to some adventurers. Many beasts have features such as pact tactics, therefore allowing players to point to a particular bad gut and say "kill" may be understood by a polymorphed PC. I would expect then to know who their friends are (feeble mind states that when you have int 1) and in possibly be able to take advantage of things like flanking. There is a world of difference between an int 2 T-Rex and an Int 7 Giant Ape.
There's also a world of difference between a half-orc with 8 intelligence and a high elf with 20 intelligence... maybe even more than there is between a T-Rex and the half-orc. But, while it's great to reward players for roleplaying their characters and their limitations, most DMs won't take control away from a player and say "no you wouldn't do that" or "you would do this instead," the ability scores are already reflected in the effectiveness of the player using their skills and features as they wish.
TLDR, a T-Rex may be dumb, but its dumbness is never an excuse for a DM taking control away from a player who is polymorphed into a T-Rex. Let them do what they want, the Intelligence plays a role in them possibly (likely) failing intelligence-based checks and saves.
The biggest issue with polymorphing an ally or yourself is that the person polymorphed adopts the intelligence of the creature it's been changed into.
A creature with animal intelligence can't understand language, and will likely forget the plans/objectives they had while they were in their original form.
A DM COULD rule that way, I suppose, but to me retention of alignment and personality means they at least still recognize friend from foe and can act accordingly. Yeah, they may no longer be able to comprehend more complex, long-term objectives, but for the purposes of one encounter, they should remain effective in my book.
Hey, thought I could dispel a common misconception about polymorph, it seems to me some people think you don't get class features and feats during polymorph, and I can see the rationale.
But the book describes each aspect of statistics in the monster manual (page 6-11) in a short sub-section.
Size Type Tags Alignment Armor Class Hit Points Speed Ability Scores Saving Throws Skills Vulnerabilities, Resistances, and Immunities Senses Languages Challenge Special Traits Actions Reactions Limited Usage Equipment
So it seems pretty clear, it's simply not there.
Now, jeremy crawford says u don't get feats/class features, but well....he's been wrong on a lot of things and contradicted himself a lot of times.
So put it this way, if you don't get feats in polymorph, then shit like war caster doesn't do what it is specifically designed to do, maintain concentration.
Think we really need an official errata with this type of stuff in mind to clear up this stuff correctly, hopefully in D&D one this stuff is fixed.
I think Polymorph is pretty clear "The target's game statistics, including mental ability scores, are replaced by the statistics of the chosen beast. It retains its alignment and personality." I would say that alignment and personality means you still know who your friends are but all your game stats are taken from the creature you polymorphed into so you do not gain from any feats. Polymorph int oa Brontosaurus is probably the best option for maintaning concentration (AC15 and +6 to con saves)
This is different to Druids going into Wild Shape "You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so."
It would seem to me that choose Ape for a polymorph should allow for many things... While i agree that most shapes give you 3 or less int so most abilities just cant be used.. 7 int is a big difference... hell you could actually be smarter as the Ape...so things like Language ... well yes Apes have highly developed vocals system anyway.. using tools tick... knowing friend from foe tick..... so now here we are at feats and abilities....spells.. NO... spell like abilities? tough...if you had a Feat that gave you misty step.... well its not really stat based to used...you dont need any casting skills...so whats stopping you???... if you had the tough feat do you stop being tough just because you polymorphed? and the ist goes on.. I do accept that this is all based around the Ape... but i think it shows that unless you want to go with... You dont get anything every cause i said so approach. then it really has to be DM led situation to situation.
The biggest issue with polymorphing an ally or yourself is that the person polymorphed adopts the intelligence of the creature it's been changed into.
A creature with animal intelligence can't understand language, and will likely forget the plans/objectives they had while they were in their original form.
Some of this is a decision for the table, dogs (int 3) can understand simple commands and giant apes have an intelligence comparable to some adventurers. Many beasts have features such as pact tactics, therefore allowing players to point to a particular bad gut and say "kill" may be understood by a polymorphed PC. I would expect then to know who their friends are (feeble mind states that when you have int 1) and in possibly be able to take advantage of things like flanking. There is a world of difference between an int 2 T-Rex and an Int 7 Giant Ape.
The devs have made it clear that you ARE still the same person, just... well... dumber.
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Seems that the biggest hiccup to casting Polymorph on yourself is having to make frequent CON saves from taking damage. Most of the relevant beast forms (and by relevant I mean the new form has to be doing something more than you would on your own) are melee based and have bad AC. The question is, would War Caster provide enough of an advantage to help with this if you don't have a good CON save already?
Druids (especially moon druids) deal with this often. Warcaster helps, especially at lower levels, but if you're just focusing on the concentration aspect of the feat it's generally agreed that Resilient(con) is the better way to go for the long game.
Unless I've missed something, wildshape does not require concentration.
Correct, wild shape does not require concentration, but it is rare that a moon druid enters combat without some form of concentration spell running. Standard practice is to cast something like flaming sphere or entangle and then run into combat. Since beast AC is pretty lackluster the moon druid ends up rolling A LOT of concentration checks.
Ah. Gotcha.
If you have an odd number for your Constitution I’d go with Resilient. Otherwise I’d go with War Caster.
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When you polymorph, none of your features carry over except your alignment and personality. War Caster, for instance, would not carry over.
Note that this is different from a druid's Wild Shape, which DOES explicitly say that features carry over (as long as the new form is capable of using them).
This is the correct answer. Feats won't help at all.
The biggest issue with polymorphing an ally or yourself is that the person polymorphed adopts the intelligence of the creature it's been changed into.
A creature with animal intelligence can't understand language, and will likely forget the plans/objectives they had while they were in their original form.
Some of this is a decision for the table, dogs (int 3) can understand simple commands and giant apes have an intelligence comparable to some adventurers. Many beasts have features such as pact tactics, therefore allowing players to point to a particular bad gut and say "kill" may be understood by a polymorphed PC. I would expect then to know who their friends are (feeble mind states that when you have int 1) and in possibly be able to take advantage of things like flanking. There is a world of difference between an int 2 T-Rex and an Int 7 Giant Ape.
There's also a world of difference between a half-orc with 8 intelligence and a high elf with 20 intelligence... maybe even more than there is between a T-Rex and the half-orc. But, while it's great to reward players for roleplaying their characters and their limitations, most DMs won't take control away from a player and say "no you wouldn't do that" or "you would do this instead," the ability scores are already reflected in the effectiveness of the player using their skills and features as they wish.
TLDR, a T-Rex may be dumb, but its dumbness is never an excuse for a DM taking control away from a player who is polymorphed into a T-Rex. Let them do what they want, the Intelligence plays a role in them possibly (likely) failing intelligence-based checks and saves.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
A DM COULD rule that way, I suppose, but to me retention of alignment and personality means they at least still recognize friend from foe and can act accordingly. Yeah, they may no longer be able to comprehend more complex, long-term objectives, but for the purposes of one encounter, they should remain effective in my book.
Hey, thought I could dispel a common misconception about polymorph, it seems to me some people think you don't get class features and feats during polymorph, and I can see the rationale.
But the book describes each aspect of statistics in the monster manual (page 6-11) in a short sub-section.
Size
Type
Tags
Alignment
Armor Class
Hit Points
Speed
Ability Scores
Saving Throws
Skills
Vulnerabilities, Resistances, and Immunities
Senses
Languages
Challenge
Special Traits
Actions
Reactions
Limited Usage
Equipment
So it seems pretty clear, it's simply not there.
Now, jeremy crawford says u don't get feats/class features, but well....he's been wrong on a lot of things and contradicted himself a lot of times.
So put it this way, if you don't get feats in polymorph, then shit like war caster doesn't do what it is specifically designed to do, maintain concentration.
Think we really need an official errata with this type of stuff in mind to clear up this stuff correctly, hopefully in D&D one this stuff is fixed.
16 month bump.
I think Polymorph is pretty clear "The target's game statistics, including mental ability scores, are replaced by the statistics of the chosen beast. It retains its alignment and personality." I would say that alignment and personality means you still know who your friends are but all your game stats are taken from the creature you polymorphed into so you do not gain from any feats. Polymorph int oa Brontosaurus is probably the best option for maintaning concentration (AC15 and +6 to con saves)
This is different to Druids going into Wild Shape "You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so."
It would seem to me that choose Ape for a polymorph should allow for many things... While i agree that most shapes give you 3 or less int so most abilities just cant be used.. 7 int is a big difference... hell you could actually be smarter as the Ape...so things like Language ... well yes Apes have highly developed vocals system anyway.. using tools tick... knowing friend from foe tick..... so now here we are at feats and abilities....spells.. NO... spell like abilities? tough...if you had a Feat that gave you misty step.... well its not really stat based to used...you dont need any casting skills...so whats stopping you???... if you had the tough feat do you stop being tough just because you polymorphed? and the ist goes on.. I do accept that this is all based around the Ape... but i think it shows that unless you want to go with... You dont get anything every cause i said so approach. then it really has to be DM led situation to situation.
Look into my eyes.
The devs have made it clear that you ARE still the same person, just... well... dumber.