Currently a lvl 10 alchemist artificer with the following stats:
Str -9
Dex 17
Int 20
Wis 18
Con 14
Cha 15
the character has prodigy, and skill expert for feats with some ASIs thrown into the above. She full support/inventive and doing a tinkering tools check can net her a maximum 39 on a nat 20. I was thinking of dipping into another class but many guides say that coming INTO artificer is much better than coming out and into another class. With my next ASI I can bring Wis to 20 to open more avenues but I’m really at a loss as to how to further improve her out of combat specialization. Which is inventing and skill checks. I’ve looked over many of the classes but it’s always a quarter of new features and can’t reach levels that give a solid plateau and refocus the remaining levels on artificer. So I’m at a bit of a loss
Two levels in bard would give you jack of all trades to boost the skills you're not proficient in and a couple bardic inspiration die to throw around. Not to mention song of rest.
It depends what you wand and long you expect the campaign to last.
Whatever you do now you wont get higher than 5th level spells (Either from Artificer or 9/10 levels into a full spell caster), generally speaking the best multiclasses are a dip and I think the same is true for you, I wouldn't go more than 2 or 3 levels into another class, what really helps artificers is all their extra atunement slots in a low magic campaign you also want to be able infuse high level items ASAP as well. If the camapign is expected to get to 20 and especially if you are expecting a good amount of play at level 20 seriously consider sticking with single class. +6 to all saves is the best capstone in the game.
Assuming you do wnat to multiclass
A 2 level dip into fighter is a classic for spell casters as it will give you action surge so you can cast two spells on your turn, it also gives you martial weapon proficiency (which you are likely not to use) a fighting style (you probably want protection) and a small amount of extra healing.
A level of wizard will give you 6 more spells prepared, while your wizard spells need to be level 1 you then don't need ot prepare any 1st level artificer spells so you can prepare more higher level spells. Shield, Silvery Barbs and hidious Laughter are all great spells not on the artificer list. A second level is also a good option if there is a particular subclass that interests you. I think the best options are war magic for the bonus to initiate and arcane deflection and divination for portent.
With your stats you can do something similar with virually any class. I am not sure you need the investment of 20 into Wis if you go cleric / druid, most of the spells will be utility (eg bless) and I think you will gain more from feats like fey touched, elemental adept, or resilient con (if you go the later I would get an split ASI in Con and Dex next) than an occasioan one higher spell DC.
A couple of very powerful dips are twilight cleric and peace cleric. Emboldening bond basically gives you the ability to put the whole party under cast bless and guidance without concentration for 10 minutes proficiency bonus times per day. As you get to higher levels that can become frequent enough to have up whenever anyone is rolling a d20 that is an incredibly powerful feature that is likely to mean the DM has to make changes to balance the game. Twilight cleric is renowned for being insanely powerful but while still powerful I don't think it is a broken as peace cleric for a dip. Eyes of the night doesn't scale so while still useful in tier 3 gameplay is is less of an issue thn with level 1 characters. Twilight sancuary scales with cleric level (where peace cleric scales with proficincy bonus) so while a sinlgle class twillight cleric will give every about the same numbe rof temporary HP every round that a character with inspiring leader can give once a short rest with you the inspiring leader feat isn't made completely useless. I would however discuss the implications with your dm if you are considering either of these.
Thanks for both, and I agree to a large extent. A full 20 into artificer is beyond amazing but I just wanted to make sure there was no further way to optimize. The suggestions have definitely clarified the potential, so thanks for the feed back.
Is there some particular non-combat activity where you feel like you're lacking? You're at the point where high level abilities are about to start coming online so it's generally good to make sure you've got a specific goal in mind instead of a vague attempt to patch over a lack ability in a given area. And there might be some feats that do a better job fixing the issue than multiclassing.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Well her specialty is tinkering with things, namely her two inventions that are her specialty along with a mechanical arm to replace the one she lost in combat that will serve as the catalyst in the next game for having warforged race. Her current line up to the build of inventing are
Arcana + 9 proficient
History +9 proficient
Insight + 12 expertise
Medicine +12 expertise
Perception +8 proficient
Persuasion +6 proficient
survival +8 proficient
I was thinking to do skill expert to bring Arcanna to +12, choose dex to bring it to 18 which knocks my AC up and give proficient to investigation which is currently a +5 due to int being 20 of course. This feat seems to bring everything up in an important way. But still thinking it over
An interesting choice that you're uniquely built for, since you have such high WIS, is a two-level dip into Forge Cleric. Grants Heavy Armor and Smith's tools proficiency, if you don't have that already, or if you do you can probably convince your DM to give you proficiency with some other artisan tool. The more tools the better, after all. Blessing of the Forge lets you turn a single weapon or armor piece into a +1 version... essentially it's another infusion for you. You also always have Identify and Searing Smite prepared, which are some solid choices.
The most interesting thing this subclass gets you for your inventive character is Channel Divinity: Artisan's Blessing. In a 1 hour ritual you can craft any non-magical item as long as it includes some metal and costs less than 100gp. Granted, you need to consume enough metal objects equal to the value of the thing you're creating, but suddenly this gives you a use for all those miscellaneous swords and arrows you gather from bandits that are normally not worth the weight. If you've got an idea for something you want to create that you know will involve some kind of weird, complicated part that you're either going to have to head into a major city to find or craft yourself over a few days you can just toss a handful of gold pieces on the ground, pray over it for an hour and boom, you've got it.
I would go for cleric or wizard. Basically with such an insane attribute list, any class is possible but multiclassing a full caster would increase your artificer spellslots too. Basically by going full caster you could potentially reach lvl 8 slots at lvl 20. Your highest spell, however, would be level 5.
I would ask the DM permission to use the spellpoint variant rule. It would allow you to utilize those low level utility spells more effectively. Having lvl 8 slots for max lvl 5 spells is super unsatisfying...
But 15 levels of multclassing equals 94 spellpoints. The cost of a 2nd level spell is 3 points and 3rd lvl is 5 points. 4th 6 and 5th lvl is 7 points. 1st lvl is 2. Do the math how many of your favorite spells you could cast. 😄
So this way you could make your utility spells very meaningful by using the excess spellpoints from multiclassing for lots of lower level spells instead of upcasting. Lots of great utility spells are level 1-3.
So you exhange the maximum power of your spells for the maximum amount of daily spells. Imo this makes multiclassing a lot more satisfying and brings out the versatility at the expense of power.
What do you mean by "some ASIs"? The maximum you can have is one since you have to feats (assuming V.Human or Custom Lineage)?
That said, single-class Artificers are the way to optimize Artificers. There's nothing they really need from other classes. Especially with such enourmous abilitiy scores as your character. At level 11 you also get the Spell Storing Item which you really, really want.
Strength wise you're probably better off staying artificer. But I like the flavor of either forge domain cleric or conjuration wizard dip as they give creation abilities, not to mention all the useful 1st level ritual spells you can get as a wizard.
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Currently a lvl 10 alchemist artificer with the following stats:
Str -9
Dex 17
Int 20
Wis 18
Con 14
Cha 15
the character has prodigy, and skill expert for feats with some ASIs thrown into the above. She full support/inventive and doing a tinkering tools check can net her a maximum 39 on a nat 20. I was thinking of dipping into another class but many guides say that coming INTO artificer is much better than coming out and into another class. With my next ASI I can bring Wis to 20 to open more avenues but I’m really at a loss as to how to further improve her out of combat specialization. Which is inventing and skill checks. I’ve looked over many of the classes but it’s always a quarter of new features and can’t reach levels that give a solid plateau and refocus the remaining levels on artificer. So I’m at a bit of a loss
Two levels in bard would give you jack of all trades to boost the skills you're not proficient in and a couple bardic inspiration die to throw around. Not to mention song of rest.
It depends what you wand and long you expect the campaign to last.
Whatever you do now you wont get higher than 5th level spells (Either from Artificer or 9/10 levels into a full spell caster), generally speaking the best multiclasses are a dip and I think the same is true for you, I wouldn't go more than 2 or 3 levels into another class, what really helps artificers is all their extra atunement slots in a low magic campaign you also want to be able infuse high level items ASAP as well. If the camapign is expected to get to 20 and especially if you are expecting a good amount of play at level 20 seriously consider sticking with single class. +6 to all saves is the best capstone in the game.
Assuming you do wnat to multiclass
A 2 level dip into fighter is a classic for spell casters as it will give you action surge so you can cast two spells on your turn, it also gives you martial weapon proficiency (which you are likely not to use) a fighting style (you probably want protection) and a small amount of extra healing.
A level of wizard will give you 6 more spells prepared, while your wizard spells need to be level 1 you then don't need ot prepare any 1st level artificer spells so you can prepare more higher level spells. Shield, Silvery Barbs and hidious Laughter are all great spells not on the artificer list. A second level is also a good option if there is a particular subclass that interests you. I think the best options are war magic for the bonus to initiate and arcane deflection and divination for portent.
With your stats you can do something similar with virually any class. I am not sure you need the investment of 20 into Wis if you go cleric / druid, most of the spells will be utility (eg bless) and I think you will gain more from feats like fey touched, elemental adept, or resilient con (if you go the later I would get an split ASI in Con and Dex next) than an occasioan one higher spell DC.
A couple of very powerful dips are twilight cleric and peace cleric. Emboldening bond basically gives you the ability to put the whole party under cast bless and guidance without concentration for 10 minutes proficiency bonus times per day. As you get to higher levels that can become frequent enough to have up whenever anyone is rolling a d20 that is an incredibly powerful feature that is likely to mean the DM has to make changes to balance the game. Twilight cleric is renowned for being insanely powerful but while still powerful I don't think it is a broken as peace cleric for a dip. Eyes of the night doesn't scale so while still useful in tier 3 gameplay is is less of an issue thn with level 1 characters. Twilight sancuary scales with cleric level (where peace cleric scales with proficincy bonus) so while a sinlgle class twillight cleric will give every about the same numbe rof temporary HP every round that a character with inspiring leader can give once a short rest with you the inspiring leader feat isn't made completely useless. I would however discuss the implications with your dm if you are considering either of these.
Thanks for both, and I agree to a large extent. A full 20 into artificer is beyond amazing but I just wanted to make sure there was no further way to optimize. The suggestions have definitely clarified the potential, so thanks for the feed back.
Is there some particular non-combat activity where you feel like you're lacking? You're at the point where high level abilities are about to start coming online so it's generally good to make sure you've got a specific goal in mind instead of a vague attempt to patch over a lack ability in a given area. And there might be some feats that do a better job fixing the issue than multiclassing.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Well her specialty is tinkering with things, namely her two inventions that are her specialty along with a mechanical arm to replace the one she lost in combat that will serve as the catalyst in the next game for having warforged race. Her current line up to the build of inventing are
Arcana + 9 proficient
History +9 proficient
Insight + 12 expertise
Medicine +12 expertise
Perception +8 proficient
Persuasion +6 proficient
survival +8 proficient
I was thinking to do skill expert to bring Arcanna to +12, choose dex to bring it to 18 which knocks my AC up and give proficient to investigation which is currently a +5 due to int being 20 of course. This feat seems to bring everything up in an important way. But still thinking it over
An interesting choice that you're uniquely built for, since you have such high WIS, is a two-level dip into Forge Cleric. Grants Heavy Armor and Smith's tools proficiency, if you don't have that already, or if you do you can probably convince your DM to give you proficiency with some other artisan tool. The more tools the better, after all. Blessing of the Forge lets you turn a single weapon or armor piece into a +1 version... essentially it's another infusion for you. You also always have Identify and Searing Smite prepared, which are some solid choices.
The most interesting thing this subclass gets you for your inventive character is Channel Divinity: Artisan's Blessing. In a 1 hour ritual you can craft any non-magical item as long as it includes some metal and costs less than 100gp. Granted, you need to consume enough metal objects equal to the value of the thing you're creating, but suddenly this gives you a use for all those miscellaneous swords and arrows you gather from bandits that are normally not worth the weight. If you've got an idea for something you want to create that you know will involve some kind of weird, complicated part that you're either going to have to head into a major city to find or craft yourself over a few days you can just toss a handful of gold pieces on the ground, pray over it for an hour and boom, you've got it.
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I would go for cleric or wizard. Basically with such an insane attribute list, any class is possible but multiclassing a full caster would increase your artificer spellslots too. Basically by going full caster you could potentially reach lvl 8 slots at lvl 20. Your highest spell, however, would be level 5.
I would ask the DM permission to use the spellpoint variant rule. It would allow you to utilize those low level utility spells more effectively. Having lvl 8 slots for max lvl 5 spells is super unsatisfying...
But 15 levels of multclassing equals 94 spellpoints. The cost of a 2nd level spell is 3 points and 3rd lvl is 5 points. 4th 6 and 5th lvl is 7 points. 1st lvl is 2. Do the math how many of your favorite spells you could cast. 😄
So this way you could make your utility spells very meaningful by using the excess spellpoints from multiclassing for lots of lower level spells instead of upcasting. Lots of great utility spells are level 1-3.
So you exhange the maximum power of your spells for the maximum amount of daily spells. Imo this makes multiclassing a lot more satisfying and brings out the versatility at the expense of power.
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What do you mean by "some ASIs"? The maximum you can have is one since you have to feats (assuming V.Human or Custom Lineage)?
That said, single-class Artificers are the way to optimize Artificers. There's nothing they really need from other classes. Especially with such enourmous abilitiy scores as your character. At level 11 you also get the Spell Storing Item which you really, really want.
Yea we did dice rolling instead of standard array and point buy. I got “absurdly good” rolls. I was 20 int by first ASI and variant human to boot.
Thanks for all the suggestions everyone. I have a nice collaboration of options I honestly didn’t even fathom.
Strength wise you're probably better off staying artificer. But I like the flavor of either forge domain cleric or conjuration wizard dip as they give creation abilities, not to mention all the useful 1st level ritual spells you can get as a wizard.