Long time player, first time poster and not sure if this is the right place, but I'm looking for some advice on what character to play in my next campaign. My friends and I are avid D&D players, however, while most tend to focus more on role-play or just making whatever comes to mind, I tend to be the only MinMaxer.
Not even intentionally sometimes, but I like researching how different abilities combo and playing optimally. In our last session, I was literally trying to make a silly goblin barbarian (small, but angry) who ended up riding the BBEG like a horse and just attacked at advantage the entire time and was near untouchable while the rest of the team was swarmed by minions. TBF he came at me first.
As such, for my next game, I'm looking to build something either really simple or who can support the team without breaking the game or hogging the spotlight. I was thinking to play a God Wizard (based on Treatmonts video) who mainly uses support spells, but I'm also really interested in just playing a simple archer, who hangs at the battle field edge and just fires arrows from a distance, using battle tactics (from battle master) to hinder enemy.
Any suggestions on which I should try and how to best use them to support the team so they can shine without feeling like my character is being nerfed or played poorly?
I'm a fan of the Clockwork-Sorcerer-X/Order-Cleric-1 multiclass build for an optimized support build that will leave your allies happy you minmax instead of upset, because of just how well it goes out of its way to share the spotlight with the whole party.
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I'm a fan of the Clockwork-Sorcerer-X/Order-Cleric-1 multiclass build for an optimized support build that will leave your allies happy you minmax instead of upset, because of just how well it goes out of its way to share the spotlight with the whole party.
I would second this. It's one of the actual support builds that I think really fits in D&D. Ideally your party would have at least two martial characters to give you options, in a perfect world one of them is Rogue because Voice of Authority can set up a second sneak attack in a round. But whoever the heaviest hitter is in your group will be your best friend. Combat starts to feel more like you're playing chess than some kind of war game.
Some of my favorite spells to use with Voice of Authority are Silvery Barbs and Wither and Bloom. Both of them effectively give you a 3-for-1 with Voice of Authority. Vortex Warp is another good one that can let you teleport a melee ally who's out of position right next to an enemy and let them immediately make an attack.
Overall Voice of Authority is just an amazing rider onto all the usual reactive/support spells that can kind of feel underwhelming when you need to use them. Healing Word now comes with an attack, Greater/Lesser Restoration now comes with an attack, etc. You just need to determine what the best pace is for using levelled spells. If you do it every turn, you're likely to burn through spell slots too quickly.
Hobgoblin race will sort of double-down on the support you offer without using spells. Spring Eladrin is also another good choice that will let you teleport allys around the battlefield. But pick whatever race you like.
The main downside is that because you need 13 WIS for for Cleric dip, your secondary and tertiary stats will be spread thin unless you roll for stats and roll well. You will have proficiency in heavy armor from Cleric, but won't have the strength to use the armor without having your movement affected. If you decide to use Medium armor you might have to sacrifice some CON to get enough DEX. Personally I just dealt with the hampered movement from heavy armor. Though if you're really worried about this then any Dwarven race or Wood Elf will at least let you maintain 25ft movement while wearing heavy armor that you're not strong enough for.
As such, for my next game, I'm looking to build something either really simple or who can support the team without breaking the game or hogging the spotlight. I was thinking to play a God Wizard (based on Treatmonts video) who mainly uses support spells, but I'm also really interested in just playing a simple archer, who hangs at the battle field edge and just fires arrows from a distance, using battle tactics (from battle master) to hinder enemy.
The God Wizard is really not fun to play with TBH, any optimized Wizard build is in general not fun to play with. Teleportation sucks the fun out of environmental challenges, battlefield control cancels or trivializes combats, and utility/ritual magic takes away all the fun of exploration. Not to mention how annoying it is when the Wizard constantly says "I have the perfect spell for that but I don't have it prepared / don't have a spell slot so can we just take a long rest." There are two players who went for this kind of build on a WM server I'm on and nobody wants to play with them b/c it's just not fun. Sometimes failure is where the most fun & memorable moments are.
Archer is a little better, but if you optimize it you'll easily be dealing twice as much damage in combat as anyone else, depending on the group that might be fine, the rest of the players might be happy to treat combat as "How to we help MasterMatt kill the bad guys?", but that is most likely what the game will be like. However, the rest of the game - social challenges, exploration, environmental threats, infiltration - will give the other players a chance to shine.
A potentially good/interesting Archer build would be:
Twilight Clerics are super OP. I've played a couple of them, and am currently playing one (Twilight9/DivineSoul1).
They're so strong that any advice given for how to optimize them is overkill. In fact, any time I've played one I've just used the subclass chassis to try some wacky shit because I know no matter what, when I hit that Twilight Sanctuary button, we win that combat.
I made one that was a lizardfolk and dex focused, used a whip and shield and warcaster, and tried to spam guiding bolt all the time. My current one is built with primary strength (at 18) that fights with a maul, and booming blade. Took mobility feat, and runs around smacking enemies in melee. The level dip in sorc gives Con save proficiency and the much needed absorb elements and shield spells, and the booming blade cantrip. 2d6+5+1d8+1d8 ain't nothing to sneeze at for a 'resourceless' action, not for a cleric anyway. This means your spell slots can go to all kinds of fun stuff. Spirit Guardians, utility, healing, Spirit Guardians, whatever.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
What about a twilight Cleric? They look to be super OP and have lots of support options. Any suggestions on there?
Twilight Cleric is super OP to the point double check with your DM that they allow them at the table as many consider them broken. There's really no optimization necessary at all, just put up your Twilight Sanctuary as your first turn in combat and then it doesn't matter at all what you do with the rest of your turns - you could Dodge the entire rest of the combat and still be the most effective character in the party.
I'm not sure if you simply enjoy playing an OP character, or whether you enjoy the application of skill to building and playing a character well. If it is the latter, I'd recommend picking a class/subclass that has the reputation of being weak and figuring out how to build/play them optimally so they become actually powerful. It is possible to do this with pretty much every class/subclass and it generally makes it so your optimized character is only a bit more powerful than the other players in the party if the other players pick the broken classes/subclasses and then build/play them suboptimally.
But if the former, I'd suggest Peace Cleric / Starry Druid as the most party & DM friendly powerful subclasses.
Peace Cleric you optimize by getting Shield & Absorb Elements from a 1 level dip into Wizard or Sorcerer, and picking a species with a movement speed boost - Tabaxi is best but Centaur, Harengon, or Wood Elf is also good.
Starry Druid you can optimize around any of its three starry forms with different dips:
Archer go for Hexblade Warlock-1 for Hex, Shield, HBC
Chalice go for Life Cleric-1 to be a super healer
Dragon go for Sorcerer-1 to get Con save proficiency + Shield
Those are fun options to bring to a more casual table as a min/maxxer.
Im currently having fun as a grave cleric bent on finding/cultivating great champions as part of a deal with a god. Just setting other people up for success so their god will be pleased by the feats they accomplish... with the possibility that the cleric will eventually try to send their souls to their god's realm.
Have played Order domain1/X war wizard, going first in initiative and passing saves helps keep you being effective. Concentration cantrips (guidance/resistance) boosting checks for initiative/saves with further save/AC boost from Durable magic feature was great.
Idk if anyone will be able to respond with experience but i would imagine order domain 1/X gravity wizard could be quite fun. Gravity well can do wonders for continually changing the positioning of friends and foes alike in a game where creatures seem to be glued in place for fear of reaction attacks. Seems to work with voice of authority quite well too. feature works regardless of spell list or if its a beneficial or detrimental effect. the gravity based spells along with spells like bless further boost this gameplay.
adjust density can help quite a bit with exploration or movement speed boosts. Limited yet combined jump/longstrider spell feature that costs concentration but is effectively a cantrip.
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Hello there,
Long time player, first time poster and not sure if this is the right place, but I'm looking for some advice on what character to play in my next campaign. My friends and I are avid D&D players, however, while most tend to focus more on role-play or just making whatever comes to mind, I tend to be the only MinMaxer.
Not even intentionally sometimes, but I like researching how different abilities combo and playing optimally. In our last session, I was literally trying to make a silly goblin barbarian (small, but angry) who ended up riding the BBEG like a horse and just attacked at advantage the entire time and was near untouchable while the rest of the team was swarmed by minions. TBF he came at me first.
As such, for my next game, I'm looking to build something either really simple or who can support the team without breaking the game or hogging the spotlight. I was thinking to play a God Wizard (based on Treatmonts video) who mainly uses support spells, but I'm also really interested in just playing a simple archer, who hangs at the battle field edge and just fires arrows from a distance, using battle tactics (from battle master) to hinder enemy.
Any suggestions on which I should try and how to best use them to support the team so they can shine without feeling like my character is being nerfed or played poorly?
I'm a fan of the Clockwork-Sorcerer-X/Order-Cleric-1 multiclass build for an optimized support build that will leave your allies happy you minmax instead of upset, because of just how well it goes out of its way to share the spotlight with the whole party.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I would second this. It's one of the actual support builds that I think really fits in D&D. Ideally your party would have at least two martial characters to give you options, in a perfect world one of them is Rogue because Voice of Authority can set up a second sneak attack in a round. But whoever the heaviest hitter is in your group will be your best friend. Combat starts to feel more like you're playing chess than some kind of war game.
Some of my favorite spells to use with Voice of Authority are Silvery Barbs and Wither and Bloom. Both of them effectively give you a 3-for-1 with Voice of Authority. Vortex Warp is another good one that can let you teleport a melee ally who's out of position right next to an enemy and let them immediately make an attack.
Overall Voice of Authority is just an amazing rider onto all the usual reactive/support spells that can kind of feel underwhelming when you need to use them. Healing Word now comes with an attack, Greater/Lesser Restoration now comes with an attack, etc. You just need to determine what the best pace is for using levelled spells. If you do it every turn, you're likely to burn through spell slots too quickly.
Hobgoblin race will sort of double-down on the support you offer without using spells. Spring Eladrin is also another good choice that will let you teleport allys around the battlefield. But pick whatever race you like.
The main downside is that because you need 13 WIS for for Cleric dip, your secondary and tertiary stats will be spread thin unless you roll for stats and roll well. You will have proficiency in heavy armor from Cleric, but won't have the strength to use the armor without having your movement affected. If you decide to use Medium armor you might have to sacrifice some CON to get enough DEX. Personally I just dealt with the hampered movement from heavy armor. Though if you're really worried about this then any Dwarven race or Wood Elf will at least let you maintain 25ft movement while wearing heavy armor that you're not strong enough for.
The God Wizard is really not fun to play with TBH, any optimized Wizard build is in general not fun to play with. Teleportation sucks the fun out of environmental challenges, battlefield control cancels or trivializes combats, and utility/ritual magic takes away all the fun of exploration. Not to mention how annoying it is when the Wizard constantly says "I have the perfect spell for that but I don't have it prepared / don't have a spell slot so can we just take a long rest." There are two players who went for this kind of build on a WM server I'm on and nobody wants to play with them b/c it's just not fun. Sometimes failure is where the most fun & memorable moments are.
Archer is a little better, but if you optimize it you'll easily be dealing twice as much damage in combat as anyone else, depending on the group that might be fine, the rest of the players might be happy to treat combat as "How to we help MasterMatt kill the bad guys?", but that is most likely what the game will be like. However, the rest of the game - social challenges, exploration, environmental threats, infiltration - will give the other players a chance to shine.
A potentially good/interesting Archer build would be:
1-6 Fighter Battlemaster, pick up FS:Archery, XbowXpert, SharpShooter, Precise Attack, Trip Attack
7-11 Ranger Hunter, pick up Collossus Slayer, Goodberry, Zephyr Strike, Absorb Elements
12-20 Fighter Battlemaster.
What about a twilight Cleric? They look to be super OP and have lots of support options. Any suggestions on there?
Twilight Clerics are super OP. I've played a couple of them, and am currently playing one (Twilight9/DivineSoul1).
They're so strong that any advice given for how to optimize them is overkill. In fact, any time I've played one I've just used the subclass chassis to try some wacky shit because I know no matter what, when I hit that Twilight Sanctuary button, we win that combat.
I made one that was a lizardfolk and dex focused, used a whip and shield and warcaster, and tried to spam guiding bolt all the time. My current one is built with primary strength (at 18) that fights with a maul, and booming blade. Took mobility feat, and runs around smacking enemies in melee. The level dip in sorc gives Con save proficiency and the much needed absorb elements and shield spells, and the booming blade cantrip. 2d6+5+1d8+1d8 ain't nothing to sneeze at for a 'resourceless' action, not for a cleric anyway. This means your spell slots can go to all kinds of fun stuff. Spirit Guardians, utility, healing, Spirit Guardians, whatever.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Twilight Cleric is super OP to the point double check with your DM that they allow them at the table as many consider them broken. There's really no optimization necessary at all, just put up your Twilight Sanctuary as your first turn in combat and then it doesn't matter at all what you do with the rest of your turns - you could Dodge the entire rest of the combat and still be the most effective character in the party.
I'm not sure if you simply enjoy playing an OP character, or whether you enjoy the application of skill to building and playing a character well. If it is the latter, I'd recommend picking a class/subclass that has the reputation of being weak and figuring out how to build/play them optimally so they become actually powerful. It is possible to do this with pretty much every class/subclass and it generally makes it so your optimized character is only a bit more powerful than the other players in the party if the other players pick the broken classes/subclasses and then build/play them suboptimally.
But if the former, I'd suggest Peace Cleric / Starry Druid as the most party & DM friendly powerful subclasses.
Peace Cleric you optimize by getting Shield & Absorb Elements from a 1 level dip into Wizard or Sorcerer, and picking a species with a movement speed boost - Tabaxi is best but Centaur, Harengon, or Wood Elf is also good.
Starry Druid you can optimize around any of its three starry forms with different dips:
Those are fun options to bring to a more casual table as a min/maxxer.
Im currently having fun as a grave cleric bent on finding/cultivating great champions as part of a deal with a god. Just setting other people up for success so their god will be pleased by the feats they accomplish... with the possibility that the cleric will eventually try to send their souls to their god's realm.
Have played Order domain1/X war wizard, going first in initiative and passing saves helps keep you being effective. Concentration cantrips (guidance/resistance) boosting checks for initiative/saves with further save/AC boost from Durable magic feature was great.
Idk if anyone will be able to respond with experience but i would imagine order domain 1/X gravity wizard could be quite fun. Gravity well can do wonders for continually changing the positioning of friends and foes alike in a game where creatures seem to be glued in place for fear of reaction attacks. Seems to work with voice of authority quite well too. feature works regardless of spell list or if its a beneficial or detrimental effect. the gravity based spells along with spells like bless further boost this gameplay.
adjust density can help quite a bit with exploration or movement speed boosts. Limited yet combined jump/longstrider spell feature that costs concentration but is effectively a cantrip.