I've been building an Order Cleric 1 / Clockwork Soul Sorcerer 9 for a one shot coming up, but the multiclass rules are a little confusing for me and I don't want to miss anything. It seems to matter whether I start as a Cleric or a Sorcerer at level 1 -- I can tell if I go Sorcy I get Con save proficiency while Cleric would give Wisdom (I think both also give Charisma), and if I go Sorcy first I miss out on cleric's proficiency in all simple weapons... for Some Reason. No idea who thought that made sense in the balancing for this edition but that's neither here nor there.
Is there anything I'm missing? And what would you guys recommend I start with?
Assuming that you are primarily going to be a caster vs a melee combatant, I’d probably choose sorcerer. That.CON save proficiency will help you with Concentration checks.
Yep, start with Sorcerer. Then take the Rewarded background, so you have access to the Magic Initiate (cleric) feat and thus expand the cleric options.
The rules about which proficiencies you gain from multiclassing are I think driven a bit more by narrative/roleplaying considerations than strict game balance. They represent potentially years of training or preparation for your starting class, whereas you have less time to prepare and gain proficiencies for a second class. They make more sense if you’re creating and playing a character from level 1 upwards.
For your question, probably Sorcerer first, as others have said: CON save proficiency for concentration spells, while you probably wouldn’t gain much benefit from having all the simple weapon proficiencies. (Interestingly, in the 1D&D UA playtests, Wizards and Sorcerers seem to be given all Simple weapon proficiencies. Not sure if that’s been confirmed for the new PHB.)
Interesting indeed, we'll have to see if that comes through. I mean it makes sense, all the simple weapons (with the exception of some of the more exotic ones like boomerangs) listed would be fairly natural for anyone to wield.
Does anyone know what all the differences would be though? That's the biggest burning question I had -- the recommendations are helping, but I still want to have the full picture of what I'm getting into. :o Is it *just* the weapon proficiencies and what saves I'd be good at?
It will affect your choice of skill proficiencies. Both the Cleric and the Sorcerer choose two skill proficiencies at character creation, but from different lists. You don’t gain a second pair of skill proficiencies when you multi-class. I suspect that won’t be a critical factor in choosing how to create your character, but I mention it for completeness.
That is based on the assumption that the multi-classing rules haven’t changed significantly in the new PHB. The latest playtest versions of the Cleric and Sorcerer (UA6 and UA7, respectively) looked essentially the same as the 2014 PHB for multi-classing though.
I played exactly that multiclass and it was amazing. You'll have fun!
You definitely wanna start Sorc. The con save proficiency is worth it. You really wanna kep your concentration, because you can do some amazing spells in combat that will totally tilt the scales in battle, and you really really wanna maintain em.
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Honestly imo when you're doing a wide split like that I'd suggest taking whichever one you're taking more levels in as your "primary" class for a mix of roleplay and balance reasons. Roleplay-wise it seems more appropriate since you're a Sorcerer who can do a little bit of Cleric stuff, not a Cleric with a bit of latent Sorcery. Balance-wise I just feel like it discourages some of the "game the system" multiclass picks, like dipping two levels of Fighter as your "starting" class to get the heavy armor prof along with Action Surge.
Honestly imo when you're doing a wide split like that I'd suggest taking whichever one you're taking more levels in as your "primary" class for a mix of roleplay and balance reasons. Roleplay-wise it seems more appropriate since you're a Sorcerer who can do a little bit of Cleric stuff, not a Cleric with a bit of latent Sorcery. Balance-wise I just feel like it discourages some of the "game the system" multiclass picks, like dipping two levels of Fighter as your "starting" class to get the heavy armor prof along with Action Surge.
Roleplay you can run it either way. For example Sorcerers get their magic from a magical birthright, there is no reason to assume that the magic always increases as you practice it / get older (in fact given that most campaigns are only for a few PC months it can be argued to be odd that at the start of the campaign as a fully grown adult you only have a few cantrips and level 1 spells but a few monther later you are one of the most powerful magic users in the world but that is an issue for many classes.
Therefore think it is quite reasonable to create a character with a small amount magic from their birth but early in the campaign have an encounter with their god who basically says they have been chosen to help save the world, the god gives then some divine magic which they gradually increase as they take on more and more powerful monsters.
It can be more difficult explain swapping and changing between classes regularly unless the concept is a hybrid, for example I could see a character being halfway between a scout and one of several ranger classes..
From a balance point of view what matters is if you are similar in power to the rest of the party, if everyone is optimising then it is best for you to do the same, if noone else is then you shouldn't either.
I very much disagree on trying to pick your starting class based on which one you plan to put more levels in, that doesn't even make sense really. What if your concept was you started with some natural affinity for magic, just an small amount, and pledged yourself to a church because your aspirations were bigger than you inherent abilities could ever hope to rise to. So sure you only go a couple of levels of sorc, but the rest cleric... but chronologically you woulda been a sorc first. So even if your goal isn't to optimize... going with whatever has more levels first still isn't the right answer.
In fact given that most campaigns are only for a few PC months it can be argued to be odd that at the start of the campaign as a fully grown adult you only have a few cantrips and level 1 spells but a few monther later you are one of the most powerful magic users in the world but that is an issue for many classes.
I don't really think that's hard to explain. It isn't that much of a stretch to think in-universe people have a general sense of the effects of xp. Even if they don't call it that or know precisely how it works. But it might be common enough knowledge to some that defeating monsters is a surefure way to increase your own power. Maybe the notion is tied to concepts of fate or destiny, and tgat you must defeat a monster that left unchecked would have done many things, and by thwarting it you steal power from that change of destiny. Who knows, but giving it a metaphysical explainable phenomenon in-universe is pretty straightforward.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Honestly imo when you're doing a wide split like that I'd suggest taking whichever one you're taking more levels in as your "primary" class for a mix of roleplay and balance reasons. Roleplay-wise it seems more appropriate since you're a Sorcerer who can do a little bit of Cleric stuff, not a Cleric with a bit of latent Sorcery. Balance-wise I just feel like it discourages some of the "game the system" multiclass picks, like dipping two levels of Fighter as your "starting" class to get the heavy armor prof along with Action Surge.
Roleplay you can run it either way. For example Sorcerers get their magic from a magical birthright, there is no reason to assume that the magic always increases as you practice it / get older (in fact given that most campaigns are only for a few PC months it can be argued to be odd that at the start of the campaign as a fully grown adult you only have a few cantrips and level 1 spells but a few monther later you are one of the most powerful magic users in the world but that is an issue for many classes.
Therefore think it is quite reasonable to create a character with a small amount magic from their birth but early in the campaign have an encounter with their god who basically says they have been chosen to help save the world, the god gives then some divine magic which they gradually increase as they take on more and more powerful monsters.
It can be more difficult explain swapping and changing between classes regularly unless the concept is a hybrid, for example I could see a character being halfway between a scout and one of several ranger classes..
From a balance point of view what matters is if you are similar in power to the rest of the party, if everyone is optimising then it is best for you to do the same, if noone else is then you shouldn't either.
Yeah, the story for the character is the story. Personally, I don't worry about either optimizing the starting class, or deliberately avoiding optimizing it -- both are meta-gaming in their own way
If the backstory says the character is a cleric who encountered something that triggered their sorcerous powers, then start with cleric. If they were a character with innate magic who later found religion, start as a sorcerer
All that said, in a one-shot you probably aren't going to get too deep into the backstory, so might as well make the best mechanical choice
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
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I've been building an Order Cleric 1 / Clockwork Soul Sorcerer 9 for a one shot coming up, but the multiclass rules are a little confusing for me and I don't want to miss anything. It seems to matter whether I start as a Cleric or a Sorcerer at level 1 -- I can tell if I go Sorcy I get Con save proficiency while Cleric would give Wisdom (I think both also give Charisma), and if I go Sorcy first I miss out on cleric's proficiency in all simple weapons... for Some Reason. No idea who thought that made sense in the balancing for this edition but that's neither here nor there.
Is there anything I'm missing? And what would you guys recommend I start with?
Assuming that you are primarily going to be a caster vs a melee combatant, I’d probably choose sorcerer. That.CON save proficiency will help you with Concentration checks.
Yep, start with Sorcerer. Then take the Rewarded background, so you have access to the Magic Initiate (cleric) feat and thus expand the cleric options.
playing since 1986
The rules about which proficiencies you gain from multiclassing are I think driven a bit more by narrative/roleplaying considerations than strict game balance. They represent potentially years of training or preparation for your starting class, whereas you have less time to prepare and gain proficiencies for a second class. They make more sense if you’re creating and playing a character from level 1 upwards.
For your question, probably Sorcerer first, as others have said: CON save proficiency for concentration spells, while you probably wouldn’t gain much benefit from having all the simple weapon proficiencies. (Interestingly, in the 1D&D UA playtests, Wizards and Sorcerers seem to be given all Simple weapon proficiencies. Not sure if that’s been confirmed for the new PHB.)
Interesting indeed, we'll have to see if that comes through. I mean it makes sense, all the simple weapons (with the exception of some of the more exotic ones like boomerangs) listed would be fairly natural for anyone to wield.
Does anyone know what all the differences would be though? That's the biggest burning question I had -- the recommendations are helping, but I still want to have the full picture of what I'm getting into. :o Is it *just* the weapon proficiencies and what saves I'd be good at?
It will affect your choice of skill proficiencies. Both the Cleric and the Sorcerer choose two skill proficiencies at character creation, but from different lists. You don’t gain a second pair of skill proficiencies when you multi-class. I suspect that won’t be a critical factor in choosing how to create your character, but I mention it for completeness.
That is based on the assumption that the multi-classing rules haven’t changed significantly in the new PHB. The latest playtest versions of the Cleric and Sorcerer (UA6 and UA7, respectively) looked essentially the same as the 2014 PHB for multi-classing though.
Okie. Thankoo! <3
I played exactly that multiclass and it was amazing. You'll have fun!
You definitely wanna start Sorc. The con save proficiency is worth it. You really wanna kep your concentration, because you can do some amazing spells in combat that will totally tilt the scales in battle, and you really really wanna maintain em.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Sounds good! :3
Honestly imo when you're doing a wide split like that I'd suggest taking whichever one you're taking more levels in as your "primary" class for a mix of roleplay and balance reasons. Roleplay-wise it seems more appropriate since you're a Sorcerer who can do a little bit of Cleric stuff, not a Cleric with a bit of latent Sorcery. Balance-wise I just feel like it discourages some of the "game the system" multiclass picks, like dipping two levels of Fighter as your "starting" class to get the heavy armor prof along with Action Surge.
Roleplay you can run it either way. For example Sorcerers get their magic from a magical birthright, there is no reason to assume that the magic always increases as you practice it / get older (in fact given that most campaigns are only for a few PC months it can be argued to be odd that at the start of the campaign as a fully grown adult you only have a few cantrips and level 1 spells but a few monther later you are one of the most powerful magic users in the world but that is an issue for many classes.
Therefore think it is quite reasonable to create a character with a small amount magic from their birth but early in the campaign have an encounter with their god who basically says they have been chosen to help save the world, the god gives then some divine magic which they gradually increase as they take on more and more powerful monsters.
It can be more difficult explain swapping and changing between classes regularly unless the concept is a hybrid, for example I could see a character being halfway between a scout and one of several ranger classes..
From a balance point of view what matters is if you are similar in power to the rest of the party, if everyone is optimising then it is best for you to do the same, if noone else is then you shouldn't either.
I don't really think that's hard to explain. It isn't that much of a stretch to think in-universe people have a general sense of the effects of xp. Even if they don't call it that or know precisely how it works. But it might be common enough knowledge to some that defeating monsters is a surefure way to increase your own power. Maybe the notion is tied to concepts of fate or destiny, and tgat you must defeat a monster that left unchecked would have done many things, and by thwarting it you steal power from that change of destiny. Who knows, but giving it a metaphysical explainable phenomenon in-universe is pretty straightforward.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Yeah, the story for the character is the story. Personally, I don't worry about either optimizing the starting class, or deliberately avoiding optimizing it -- both are meta-gaming in their own way
If the backstory says the character is a cleric who encountered something that triggered their sorcerous powers, then start with cleric. If they were a character with innate magic who later found religion, start as a sorcerer
All that said, in a one-shot you probably aren't going to get too deep into the backstory, so might as well make the best mechanical choice
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)