It seems to me that the overwhelming majority of a Lore Bard's combat abilities require concentration. A lot of those abilities that don't (such as Heat Metal) are useful only in certain situations.
While the Wizard is popping off instants like fireball, the Lore Bard's bread and butter are illusions and charms, which require concentration.
What advice do you have to help keep the concentration requirements from being a big problem?
While the wizard is throwing fireballs, the bard is probably using Vicious Mockery to prevent damage, Dissonant Whispers to force enemies to provoke opportunity attacks (or move away from the wizard), Cure Wounds or Healing Word to keep allies alive, or giving them Bardic Inspiration so their most crucial rolls have a better chance of succeeding. While less showy than doing big AoE damage, those are still major contributions.
Most of the wizard's non-instantaneous spells require concentration too.
Vicious Mockery is as bad as True Strike once enemies are doing more than one attack per round. Healing should never be done during combat except in the most extreme situations. And Dissonant Whispers involves your enemy running away from the party, which rarely is tactically sound to encourage. "giving them Bardic Inspiration so their most crucial rolls have a better chance of succeeding" A.) Should be done before combat starts B.) Is generally an inferior alternative to Cutting Words and C.) Even when done in combat, requires just a bonus action
Sorry, but I'm hoping there's better advice available.
I feel like your assessments of the advice given are too pessimistic. The advice is sound. It sounds like you want ways to be effective while holding a concentration, but really, bards do not have the same armory of spells that the more offensive spellcasters do. Bards lean more to a support role, and so the focus is not on how to do more dps, but to use spell effects to make things better for the rest of the party.
Vicious mockery: at some point, you’ll be out of spell slots, and regardless of the number of attacks, disadvantage can be the difference to helping someone stay alive.
healing: it’ll need to happen.
Dissonant whispers: I see you’ve not thought of the tactic where you make some enemies run away, so that you can concentrate firepower on the ones left, aka divide and conquer. This is a common battle tactic and is highly encouraged.
So, first off, whether Bards are offensive of supportive really has absolutely nothing to do with the problem here. More non-concentration buff and non-concentration debuff spells are what is needed. I'm not suggesting that the bard should get more direct damage instant spells. That's not the flavor of the class.
Vicious Mockery my point is that the Bard really should have better options than this. As I pointed out, it is on the level of True Strike on the suckmeter. I'm happy to go into more detail as to why this cantrip sucks so hard, but I feel that, if you compare it to True Strike, the reasons will become clear
"healing: it’ll need to happen." And it is rarely a good idea to have it happen in combat
Dissonant Whispers The problem with having the enemy run away is that they stay away and then they regroup. They don't run away and then run right back at you, unless they have both some sort of rage problem and some particularly low wisdom. Instead, they run away. Then, depending on their skill set, they keep sniping at you from a distance or they wait until you take your long rest (and prevent your casters from regaining their spells) or they attack when you have your next encounter with some third party or, really, the list goes on The end result, things are harder for you. You might even get screwed, hard. It is almost never a tactically good idea to encourage your enemies to run away from you.
Inspiration. I've got no problem with inspiration (other than all the problems I listed earlier). But, it is a bonus action. So, we're still left with the question of what to do with the rest of one's actions.
The Lore Bard is the first to get their magical secrets at level 6, so you can choose from literally any spells there - you want fireballs, there some fireballs. Before that there are about 5 non-concentration combat spells each in spell levels 1 and 2 - not the best options perhaps but still options (Sleep, Charm Person, Shatter, Blindness, etc.). Level 3 is a bit dry, but you only have two slots up there and can only possibly know two such spells until magical secrets, so you were hardly overflowing with choice of any sort. Other actions you can do during a turn if Vicious Mockery isn't your style: fire a crossbow, mess about with minor illusions, use your countercharm. Alternatively you could just get used to the fact that combat is not the arena where this character will excel, but with all your social skills, non-combat spells and proficiencies/expertise it is just in every single other facet of the game that you will demonstrate your mastery.
Alternatively you could just get used to the fact that combat is not the arena where this character will excel, but with all your social skills, non-combat spells and proficiencies/expertise it is just in every single other facet of the game that you will demonstrate your mastery.
That's a design flaw of the game. I don't know why people think it is some kind of defense. Every class should be good both in and out of combat.
So, what everybody here is saying is that there is not much good advice for the Lore Bard's economy of concentration problem in combat. Spamming the Blindness spell is about it.
Alternatively you could just get used to the fact that combat is not the arena where this character will excel, but with all your social skills, non-combat spells and proficiencies/expertise it is just in every single other facet of the game that you will demonstrate your mastery.
That's a design flaw of the game. I don't know why people think it is some kind of defense. Every class should be good both in and out of combat.
So, what everybody here is saying is that there is not much good advice for the Lore Bard's economy of concentration problem in combat. Spamming the Blindness spell is about it.
Why is that a design flaw? Why should all characters be equally good in and out of combat? A fighter has almost zero class features that are of much use outside of combat. A bard has like a zillion non-combat features, the lore bard gets extra above that. That is a feature of the game design, not a bug. You may find the bard an unsatisfying class to play if your game doesn't feature much except combat, or if maximum effectiveness in combat is one of the things you enjoy most in the game.
Vicious Mockery is as bad as True Strike once enemies are doing more than one attack per round.
I think your party members would disagree. Causing an enemy to miss 1 out of 3 attacks is still significant, especially when you're still doing damage in the process.
Healing should never be done during combat except in the most extreme situations.
That's not an "extreme situation", that's just a hard encounter. If all your encounters are easy or medium, why even care about having the most optimized combat tactics? You're going to win and no one's going to die either way.
And Dissonant Whispers involves your enemy running away from the party, which rarely is tactically sound to encourage.
You've never used it in a party with a Rogue or two-handed weapon users then. Dissonant Whispers can enable a large amount of damage for the very low price of one 1st level spell slot. Causing the enemy to move is just a small inconvenience, and the direction they move in is predictable.
Causing an enemy to miss 1 out of 3 attacks is still significant, especially when you're still doing damage in the process.
Spending a standard action to give your enemy disadvantage is as bad as True Strike. That's really not something that can be rationally argued against. By comparison, it is actually much worse than "you do nothing this round in order for your enemy to have a 66% chance of doing nothing." Its worse because the target doesn't get a 66% chance to do nothing. That 66% chance is modified by the save to even be affected by Vicious Mockery. Also, even then, it doesn't cause the target to have a 66% chance of doing nothing. It gives the target a 66% chance of losing _one_ attack. You can argue that, given the lack of better options, one might as well cast Vicious Mockery, but that just highlights the problem I'm talking about.
That's not an "extreme situation", that's just a hard encounter.
Nope, its an extreme situation. Its not about your party members taking damage. That's a routine occurence. The problem with spending your action healing has been discussed at length by Treantmonk in his guide to being a God, so I'm just going to direct you there rather than rehash what you should already know.
You've never used it in a party with a Rogue or two-handed weapon users then
That doesn't even make sense. It would generally only make sense if you were separated from your party (such that your enemy is running past your rogue/fighter when that enemy turns around and runs away from you) and if you' are then you've already made your first mistake.
Gotta agree with everyone else. You're hung up on doing pure damage. That's just not where bards excel. I'm currently playing a 5th level lore bard and I regularly make the DM say "let me think for a minute" after I come up with something creative. This happens both in and out of combat. Even with concentration bards have tons of options for both.
If you do insist on having damage options, toll the dead from XGtE is on the bard list and I've gotten a lot of mileage out of shatter.
Edit: I was wrong, toll the dead is not a bard spell. I forgot I have it from the High Elf trait.
I'm not suggesting that the bard should get more direct damage instant spells. That's not the flavor of the class.
And you reply
Gotta agree with everyone else. You're hung up on doing pure damage
I really don't think you're paying any attention at all to what I'm saying.
As for 5th level, no class has a concentration issue at 5th simply because they have so few spell slots to cast. Double that level and get back with me.
Okay, I did miss that. But if you want to buff or de-buff concentration is just a fact of the game. If you're not going to use those spells damage is the only other thing you can do. Or you figure out how to use your concentration tactically and to best effect.
As for your argument against dissonant whispers, here's a situation I see in combat all the time: You have a fighter, a rogue, and a frontline cleric in melee with an enemy. You cast dw and the enemy moves and gets hit with three simultaneous opportunity attacks. The rogue gets a chance for an extra sneak attack. Replace the fighter or cleric with a paladin and they get a chance at a smite. That's almost a full extra round of attacks for the party for one spell. seems pretty useful to me.
Spending a standard action to give your enemy disadvantage is as bad as True Strike. That's really not something that can be rationally argued against.
I can. True Strike is usually a net loss for the caster. Vicious Mockery has immediate benefits.
That 66% chance is modified by the save to even be affected by Vicious Mockery. Also, even then, it doesn't cause the target to have a 66% chance of doing nothing. It gives the target a 66% chance of losing _one_ attack. You can argue that, given the lack of better options, one might as well cast Vicious Mockery, but that just highlights the problem I'm talking about.
When you're up against enemies that can take off half the tank's health in one attack, or can strength drain, lower max HP, paralyze, restrain, stun, or knock prone on a hit, Vicious Mockery is a worthwhile way to use your action.
Nope, its an extreme situation.
It's just a hard encounter. From the DMG Chapter 3, Creating a Combat Encounter: "A hard encounter could go badly for the adventurers. Weaker characters might get taken out of the fight, and there’s a slim chance that one or more characters might die."
The problem with spending your action healing has been discussed at length by Treantmonk in his guide to being a God, so I'm just going to direct you there rather than rehash what you should already know.
When your party member hits 0 HP, regardless of what some random guide on the internet says, the best thing to do is almost always to put them back in the fight. And if you do that with Healing Word, you're stuck with cantrips for your action, which means your best choice is Vicious Mockery.
It would generally only make sense if you were separated from your party (such that your enemy is running past your rogue/fighter when that enemy turns around and runs away from you) and if you' are then you've already made your first mistake.
You cast it on an enemy that's next to the Fighter and Rogue. It's not complicated.
Like I said, if you're never in a situation where you need to heal mid-combat and enemy attacks don't have scary side effects, your encounters are easy and you're going to win either way.
The reason healing spells should not be cast in combat is that you should be focused on preventing the enemy from damaging you in the first place. ANY action which is not dedicated to reducing the enemy's ability to hurt you* is almost certainly a subpar action. The only exception is when you must use a healing spell on a party member who is near death. Above 5th level, that should be an exceedingly rare occurrence.
*to be clear, killing an enemy has a profound affect on its ability to hurt you
Vicious Mockery is considered one of the best cantrips in the game by many. Sorry that you don't like it, but its hardly a sucky spell.
Healing Word can and should be used during combat. Its literally the whole reason for its existence. IF someone in your party goes down to zero HP, this gets them back on their feet and in the game. That's [i]huge[/i]. Also, Treamonk's talking about WIZARDS in his guide, and even then, he says "That's not to say a well placed "Heal" or even "CLW" never has use in combat - but if you're doing your job - it should never be required as a primary role." For a support class like Bard, healing word (a bonus action spell, not even taking up your Action), more than has its uses.
Dissonant Whispers inflicts damage, forces an enemy to use up its reaction (and thus no OA) as well as move away, which can provoke an OA from your teammates. That's great strategy for a mere level 1 spell.
Now, I wouldn't say that your bread and butter. Instead, I say its a wealth of a combination of buffs and debuffs. Dissonant Whispers is a perfect example - a level 1 spell that stays highly relevant in combat across all levels. Same with Blindness/Deafness, a level 2 spell.
Furthermore, as a support class, you're going to want your spells to involve a number of healing spells, including Restoration and Resurrection-class magic, not just HP restoration. Healing Word is all the HP healing you need, and Song of Rest covers out of combat healing nicely, I've found.
Yes, most of the sorcerer high-impact spells tend to be Concentration. But that's alright, because the same is true of most spells that last more than a round. You are not going to get a fireball spell for the bard. Just not happening without blowing your Magical Secret spell slot on it. You are primarily a support class, not an artillery class. The other support classes (druid, cleric) also have Concentration for their big impact spells at the same level - conjure animals and spirit guardians. The bard's overall abilities are actually keeping in line with the druid and cleric, whom you want to compare yourself to, rather than the wizard.
Also keep in mind that, as a support class, a lot of your magic is going to be going towards healing/restoration magics. You will have less spells to spend in combat than a wizard, sorcerer or warlock by very nature of the class. I haven't really run into a situation where the Concetration spells are a problem, simply because I rarely have the spell slots to spare on them. It hasn't really run into an issue with Concentration problems, especially with a bard.
From your comments and words, I feel that its possible that you're not exactly adjusted to playing a support class. As a lore bard, if you want to spend your slots on a spell like fireball... then why not just use Magical Secrets at level 6 to get fireball? That will solve your problems.
It sounds like you’re just not a fan of bards, which is fine. To me they’re versatile and fun, but to each their own
EDIT: Do you enjoy spells such as Hold Person, Charm Person, or Dominate Monster? It seems like your whole concern is that you don’t want to waste your turns with something that /might/ fail. Those are each All-Or-Nothing spells that can easily turn the tide of battle, but by casting them you risk the enemy making the save and having “wasted” your turn
It seems to me that the overwhelming majority of a Lore Bard's combat abilities require concentration. A lot of those abilities that don't (such as Heat Metal) are useful only in certain situations.
While the Wizard is popping off instants like fireball, the Lore Bard's bread and butter are illusions and charms, which require concentration.
What advice do you have to help keep the concentration requirements from being a big problem?
While the wizard is throwing fireballs, the bard is probably using Vicious Mockery to prevent damage, Dissonant Whispers to force enemies to provoke opportunity attacks (or move away from the wizard), Cure Wounds or Healing Word to keep allies alive, or giving them Bardic Inspiration so their most crucial rolls have a better chance of succeeding. While less showy than doing big AoE damage, those are still major contributions.
Most of the wizard's non-instantaneous spells require concentration too.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Vicious Mockery is as bad as True Strike once enemies are doing more than one attack per round. Healing should never be done during combat except in the most extreme situations. And Dissonant Whispers involves your enemy running away from the party, which rarely is tactically sound to encourage. "giving them Bardic Inspiration so their most crucial rolls have a better chance of succeeding" A.) Should be done before combat starts B.) Is generally an inferior alternative to Cutting Words and C.) Even when done in combat, requires just a bonus action
Sorry, but I'm hoping there's better advice available.
I feel like your assessments of the advice given are too pessimistic. The advice is sound. It sounds like you want ways to be effective while holding a concentration, but really, bards do not have the same armory of spells that the more offensive spellcasters do. Bards lean more to a support role, and so the focus is not on how to do more dps, but to use spell effects to make things better for the rest of the party.
Vicious mockery: at some point, you’ll be out of spell slots, and regardless of the number of attacks, disadvantage can be the difference to helping someone stay alive.
healing: it’ll need to happen.
Dissonant whispers: I see you’ve not thought of the tactic where you make some enemies run away, so that you can concentrate firepower on the ones left, aka divide and conquer. This is a common battle tactic and is highly encouraged.
inspiration: this is the bard’s job description
So, first off, whether Bards are offensive of supportive really has absolutely nothing to do with the problem here. More non-concentration buff and non-concentration debuff spells are what is needed. I'm not suggesting that the bard should get more direct damage instant spells. That's not the flavor of the class.
Vicious Mockery my point is that the Bard really should have better options than this. As I pointed out, it is on the level of True Strike on the suckmeter. I'm happy to go into more detail as to why this cantrip sucks so hard, but I feel that, if you compare it to True Strike, the reasons will become clear
"healing: it’ll need to happen." And it is rarely a good idea to have it happen in combat
Dissonant Whispers The problem with having the enemy run away is that they stay away and then they regroup. They don't run away and then run right back at you, unless they have both some sort of rage problem and some particularly low wisdom. Instead, they run away. Then, depending on their skill set, they keep sniping at you from a distance or they wait until you take your long rest (and prevent your casters from regaining their spells) or they attack when you have your next encounter with some third party or, really, the list goes on The end result, things are harder for you. You might even get screwed, hard. It is almost never a tactically good idea to encourage your enemies to run away from you.
Inspiration. I've got no problem with inspiration (other than all the problems I listed earlier). But, it is a bonus action. So, we're still left with the question of what to do with the rest of one's actions.
The Lore Bard is the first to get their magical secrets at level 6, so you can choose from literally any spells there - you want fireballs, there some fireballs. Before that there are about 5 non-concentration combat spells each in spell levels 1 and 2 - not the best options perhaps but still options (Sleep, Charm Person, Shatter, Blindness, etc.). Level 3 is a bit dry, but you only have two slots up there and can only possibly know two such spells until magical secrets, so you were hardly overflowing with choice of any sort. Other actions you can do during a turn if Vicious Mockery isn't your style: fire a crossbow, mess about with minor illusions, use your countercharm. Alternatively you could just get used to the fact that combat is not the arena where this character will excel, but with all your social skills, non-combat spells and proficiencies/expertise it is just in every single other facet of the game that you will demonstrate your mastery.
That's a design flaw of the game. I don't know why people think it is some kind of defense. Every class should be good both in and out of combat.
So, what everybody here is saying is that there is not much good advice for the Lore Bard's economy of concentration problem in combat. Spamming the Blindness spell is about it.
Why is that a design flaw? Why should all characters be equally good in and out of combat? A fighter has almost zero class features that are of much use outside of combat. A bard has like a zillion non-combat features, the lore bard gets extra above that. That is a feature of the game design, not a bug. You may find the bard an unsatisfying class to play if your game doesn't feature much except combat, or if maximum effectiveness in combat is one of the things you enjoy most in the game.
I think your party members would disagree. Causing an enemy to miss 1 out of 3 attacks is still significant, especially when you're still doing damage in the process.
That's not an "extreme situation", that's just a hard encounter. If all your encounters are easy or medium, why even care about having the most optimized combat tactics? You're going to win and no one's going to die either way.
You've never used it in a party with a Rogue or two-handed weapon users then. Dissonant Whispers can enable a large amount of damage for the very low price of one 1st level spell slot. Causing the enemy to move is just a small inconvenience, and the direction they move in is predictable.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Take the War Caster feat, which gives you advantage on saves to keep your concentration. It’s for exactly this issue.
Birgit | Shifter | Sorcerer | Dragonlords
Shayone | Hobgoblin | Sorcerer | Netherdeep
Spending a standard action to give your enemy disadvantage is as bad as True Strike. That's really not something that can be rationally argued against. By comparison, it is actually much worse than "you do nothing this round in order for your enemy to have a 66% chance of doing nothing." Its worse because the target doesn't get a 66% chance to do nothing. That 66% chance is modified by the save to even be affected by Vicious Mockery. Also, even then, it doesn't cause the target to have a 66% chance of doing nothing. It gives the target a 66% chance of losing _one_ attack. You can argue that, given the lack of better options, one might as well cast Vicious Mockery, but that just highlights the problem I'm talking about.
Nope, its an extreme situation. Its not about your party members taking damage. That's a routine occurence. The problem with spending your action healing has been discussed at length by Treantmonk in his guide to being a God, so I'm just going to direct you there rather than rehash what you should already know.
That doesn't even make sense. It would generally only make sense if you were separated from your party (such that your enemy is running past your rogue/fighter when that enemy turns around and runs away from you) and if you' are then you've already made your first mistake.
Gotta agree with everyone else. You're hung up on doing pure damage. That's just not where bards excel. I'm currently playing a 5th level lore bard and I regularly make the DM say "let me think for a minute" after I come up with something creative. This happens both in and out of combat. Even with concentration bards have tons of options for both.
If you do insist on having damage options,
toll the dead from XGtE is on the bard listand I've gotten a lot of mileage out of shatter.Edit: I was wrong, toll the dead is not a bard spell. I forgot I have it from the High Elf trait.
I wrote
And you reply
I really don't think you're paying any attention at all to what I'm saying.
As for 5th level, no class has a concentration issue at 5th simply because they have so few spell slots to cast. Double that level and get back with me.
Okay, I did miss that. But if you want to buff or de-buff concentration is just a fact of the game. If you're not going to use those spells damage is the only other thing you can do. Or you figure out how to use your concentration tactically and to best effect.
As for your argument against dissonant whispers, here's a situation I see in combat all the time: You have a fighter, a rogue, and a frontline cleric in melee with an enemy. You cast dw and the enemy moves and gets hit with three simultaneous opportunity attacks. The rogue gets a chance for an extra sneak attack. Replace the fighter or cleric with a paladin and they get a chance at a smite. That's almost a full extra round of attacks for the party for one spell. seems pretty useful to me.
Edit: I do know how to spell rogue, I swear.
I can. True Strike is usually a net loss for the caster. Vicious Mockery has immediate benefits.
When you're up against enemies that can take off half the tank's health in one attack, or can strength drain, lower max HP, paralyze, restrain, stun, or knock prone on a hit, Vicious Mockery is a worthwhile way to use your action.
It's just a hard encounter. From the DMG Chapter 3, Creating a Combat Encounter: "A hard encounter could go badly for the adventurers. Weaker characters might get taken out of the fight, and there’s a slim chance that one or more characters might die."
When your party member hits 0 HP, regardless of what some random guide on the internet says, the best thing to do is almost always to put them back in the fight. And if you do that with Healing Word, you're stuck with cantrips for your action, which means your best choice is Vicious Mockery.
You cast it on an enemy that's next to the Fighter and Rogue. It's not complicated.
Like I said, if you're never in a situation where you need to heal mid-combat and enemy attacks don't have scary side effects, your encounters are easy and you're going to win either way.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
The reason healing spells should not be cast in combat is that you should be focused on preventing the enemy from damaging you in the first place. ANY action which is not dedicated to reducing the enemy's ability to hurt you* is almost certainly a subpar action. The only exception is when you must use a healing spell on a party member who is near death. Above 5th level, that should be an exceedingly rare occurrence.
*to be clear, killing an enemy has a profound affect on its ability to hurt you
Vicious Mockery is considered one of the best cantrips in the game by many. Sorry that you don't like it, but its hardly a sucky spell.
Healing Word can and should be used during combat. Its literally the whole reason for its existence. IF someone in your party goes down to zero HP, this gets them back on their feet and in the game. That's [i]huge[/i]. Also, Treamonk's talking about WIZARDS in his guide, and even then, he says "That's not to say a well placed "Heal" or even "CLW" never has use in combat - but if you're doing your job - it should never be required as a primary role." For a support class like Bard, healing word (a bonus action spell, not even taking up your Action), more than has its uses.
Dissonant Whispers inflicts damage, forces an enemy to use up its reaction (and thus no OA) as well as move away, which can provoke an OA from your teammates. That's great strategy for a mere level 1 spell.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, I wouldn't say that your bread and butter. Instead, I say its a wealth of a combination of buffs and debuffs. Dissonant Whispers is a perfect example - a level 1 spell that stays highly relevant in combat across all levels. Same with Blindness/Deafness, a level 2 spell.
Furthermore, as a support class, you're going to want your spells to involve a number of healing spells, including Restoration and Resurrection-class magic, not just HP restoration. Healing Word is all the HP healing you need, and Song of Rest covers out of combat healing nicely, I've found.
Yes, most of the sorcerer high-impact spells tend to be Concentration. But that's alright, because the same is true of most spells that last more than a round. You are not going to get a fireball spell for the bard. Just not happening without blowing your Magical Secret spell slot on it. You are primarily a support class, not an artillery class. The other support classes (druid, cleric) also have Concentration for their big impact spells at the same level - conjure animals and spirit guardians. The bard's overall abilities are actually keeping in line with the druid and cleric, whom you want to compare yourself to, rather than the wizard.
Also keep in mind that, as a support class, a lot of your magic is going to be going towards healing/restoration magics. You will have less spells to spend in combat than a wizard, sorcerer or warlock by very nature of the class. I haven't really run into a situation where the Concetration spells are a problem, simply because I rarely have the spell slots to spare on them. It hasn't really run into an issue with Concentration problems, especially with a bard.
From your comments and words, I feel that its possible that you're not exactly adjusted to playing a support class. As a lore bard, if you want to spend your slots on a spell like fireball... then why not just use Magical Secrets at level 6 to get fireball? That will solve your problems.
It sounds like you’re just not a fan of bards, which is fine. To me they’re versatile and fun, but to each their own
EDIT: Do you enjoy spells such as Hold Person, Charm Person, or Dominate Monster? It seems like your whole concern is that you don’t want to waste your turns with something that /might/ fail. Those are each All-Or-Nothing spells that can easily turn the tide of battle, but by casting them you risk the enemy making the save and having “wasted” your turn
I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
Um... if you're a Lore Bard and want to throw out fireballs, why not just use your magical secrets to take it?
Lore Bards are commonly considered the best casters in the game.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
Now you all are trolling*. Perhaps I shouldn't be expecting to get good advice about 5e from the dndbeyond website.
*As evidence of your trolling, all these comments insinuating a desire for fireball