Now, I am relatively new to the game and D&D Beyond, however, I absolutely love optimizing builds and unique rule interactions. I have devised a character that can essentially eliminate any official monster in 5e---assuming good rolls at least. The question remains, does it work? Well, as far as I can interpret, it absolutely does, and thus it is my favorite homemade build.
For the purpose of this build I ain't worried about stats, but pretend I rolled as follows: STR 8 (-0) DEX 14 (+2) CON 16 (+3) INT 18 (+4) WIS 10 (+0) CHA 11 (+0)
While it would be a slow beginning, starting off with two levels of fighter, then 3 levels into assassin rogue, and finally evocation wizard all the way---I get armor proficiencies for half-plate and most weapon proficiencies, as well as proficiency in Constitution saving throws.
Consider the wording of the following abilities:
Surprise Attack (Bugbear): If you hit a creature with an attack roll, the creature takes an extra 2d6 damage if it hasn’t taken a turn yet in the current combat.
Definitely something to take note of here---it doesn't say weapon attack, only "If you hit a creature with an attack roll." Then:
Assassinate (Assassin Rogue) Starting at 3rd level, you are at your deadliest when you get the drop on your enemies. You have advantage on attack rolls against any creature that hasn't taken a turn in the combat yet. In addition, any hit you score against a creature that is surprised is a critical hit.
Again, attack rolls and hits, no weapons.
So then I thought of the spell with possibly the most attack rolls: Scorching Ray. Both of these abilities could apply to that spell. Then things get exciting around level 8+. I'll just jump to level 20 to see its full effects. At each ASI, I increase +2 Intelligence, and take the Alert and Metamagic Adept (transmuted and distant) feats.
Turn 1 of combat (after landing a surprise on the opponent. Alert helping go before the enemy): Action: Scorching Ray (upcasted to 8th level, for 9 rays) Action Surge: Scorching Ray (upcasted to 7th level, for 8 rays) Bonus Action: Hide [cunning action, prepare for another attack from the shadows?]
Possible Damage for turn 1: (auto-crit from Assassinate) 2 x 17 rays x (2d6 + 2d6) + 17 x 5 = maximum of 901 fire damage (or thunder if I transmute it) That alone can take out ANY BOSS, assuming I roll high. However, assuming we were in a dungeon, I could use arcane eye and just go scouting ahead, I could upcast Spirit Shroud to 5th level before I even enter the room, and all of a sudden, any surprised creature that is caught within my spirit shroud is simply dead meat. Imagine the dungeon's front door being blown apart as a formidable or perhaps even pitiful-looking party charges through the door. Would you NOT be surprised by 17 rays of concussive thunderwaves aiming right for you with advantage and auto-criting? The damage drastically increases with the upcasted spirit shroud: 2 x 17 x (2d6 + 2d6 + 2d8) + 17 x 5 = to a maximum of 1,445 THUNDER DAMAGE (again, assuming I use both sorcery points to transmute the spell. Alternatively, distant spell on spirit shroud?? Correct me if I'm wrong...has ANYONE seen this much damage TURN 1 of combat before?!
There is not a monster in 5e who's hit points even come CLOSE! And I can spread that damage on up to 17 TARGETS.
Perhaps y'all more experienced than me could break it down more...I can clarify the build I have here if needed. That's all apart from the idea that with Overchannel the character can then deal around 500 damage consistently, every turn after the first. 'Course the rest would be fire damage. Does this all work? Is it effective? Is it the highest damage on a single turn yet? If it doesn't work *shoulders shrug*
Possible Damage for turn 1: (auto-crit from Assassinate) 2 x 17 rays x (2d6 + 2d6) + 17 x 5 = maximum of 901
You don't add your intelligence modifier to every hit of scorching ray. That brings you down to 821 damage. If you multiply that by a hit rate of 88% (65% with adv.), you get 720 damage. Spirit shroud should work, but only within ten feet of the target. You can find similar discussions in these threads: threadother thread, with comment 362 on the first pointing out a similar build with more damage. Also, to point out a higher single turn damage build I came up with, be a level 17 wild magic sorcerer, cast time stop, wild magic surge and regen lowest expended spell slot (9) to cast meteor swarm and repeat, casting time stop every few turns. This is infinite max damage.
O'contraire, the evocation wizard's Empowered Evocation feature enables the addition of my intelligence modifier to the spell. Of course I couldn't make every hit, however, I have advantage on every attack role due to Assassinate. For the purpose of the post I am supposing each hit. I should clarify this may be the highest single target damage, as meteor swarm definitely can't reach that high on a single target, and the restrictions on time stop are as follows: "This spell ends if one of the actions you use during this period, or any effects that you create during this period, affects a creature other than you or an object being worn or carried by someone other than you. In addition, the spell ends if you move to a place more than 1,000 feet from the location where you cast it." Meaning you can't cast meteor swarm without halting any further time stop application. The 10ft. restriction is a bugger indeed for the damage of the build, but it is certainly possible to get within that range of the target.
Furthermore, I am not factoring that abuse lots of prep time, such as infinite elementals and coffeelock, and simulacrum chains (although the latter can be accomplished by this build as well).
Thanks for catching the Empowered Evocation error. I wasn't sure if that meant one roll per target but in hindsight that's a silly idea.
That would still mean, however, I could reach upwards of 1,365 damage against a single target (varying on number of hits). Interestingly enough, I asked a question posed against my DM that I should ask here. His interpretation is automatically overpowered XD. The Overchannel ability for the evocation wizard: when it says you can max spells of levels 1-5, does that mean spells ORIGINALLY of levels 1-5, meaning I could max the upcasted version of it, or spells that I CAST at levels 1-5. He said originally, meaning I could technically get MAX 1,365 damage on this turn (again assuming hits)! Personally I do not think this is universal though, and he may very well change it.
Thanks for catching the Empowered Evocation error. I wasn't sure if that meant one roll per target but in hindsight that's a silly idea.
That would still mean, however, I could reach upwards of 1,365 damage against a single target (varying on number of hits). Interestingly enough, I asked a question posed against my DM that I should ask here. His interpretation is automatically overpowered XD. The Overchannel ability for the evocation wizard: when it says you can max spells of levels 1-5, does that mean spells ORIGINALLY of levels 1-5, meaning I could max the upcasted version of it, or spells that I CAST at levels 1-5. He said originally, meaning I could technically get MAX 1,365 damage on this turn (again assuming hits)! Personally I do not think this is universal though, and he may very well change it.
No it means a spell cast on 1-5. A spell is the level it is cast at not the level it is listed at.
Turn 1 of combat (after landing a surprise on the opponent. Alert helping go before the enemy): Action: Scorching Ray (upcasted to 8th level, for 9 rays) Action Surge: Scorching Ray (upcasted to 7th level, for 8 rays)
I believe you can only cast 1 leveled spell per turn even if you action surge or quickened spell
Turn 1 of combat (after landing a surprise on the opponent. Alert helping go before the enemy): Action: Scorching Ray (upcasted to 8th level, for 9 rays) Action Surge: Scorching Ray (upcasted to 7th level, for 8 rays)
I believe you can only cast 1 leveled spell per turn even if you action surge or quickened spell
A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn. You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
And under the 2024 Rules, the Bonus Action Spell rule is gone, and replaced with the One Spell Per Turn with a Spell Slot Rule (With special rules for Action Surge [No spellcasting], and Quickened Spell metamagic [Basically the 2014 Bonus Action Spell rule])
One Spell with a Spell Slot per Turn
On a turn, you can expend only one spell slot to cast a spell. This rule means you can’t, for example, cast a spell with a spell slot using the Magic action and another one using a Bonus Action on the same turn.
There are a host of ways to cast spells without Spell Slots, including various Species Features, Class Features, Scrolls, and other Magic Items.
Turn 1 of combat (after landing a surprise on the opponent. Alert helping go before the enemy): Action: Scorching Ray (upcasted to 8th level, for 9 rays) Action Surge: Scorching Ray (upcasted to 7th level, for 8 rays)
I believe you can only cast 1 leveled spell per turn even if you action surge or quickened spell
A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn. You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
You quoted the rule for 2014. If you cast a spell as a bonus action, you can't have cast a spell other than a Cantrip and can't cast any afterwards as a Cantrip. The Sage Advice calls this out. If you don't use a bonus action spell, there is oddly no limit. I can't think of a way for this to come up outside of 2014 action surge. Maybe cast a spell, move, trigger damage, cast Shield or Absorb Elements as a Reaction on your turn?
In 2024, the level of the spell or action used no longer matters, just whether or not a spell slot is used.
Turn 1 of combat (after landing a surprise on the opponent. Alert helping go before the enemy): Action: Scorching Ray (upcasted to 8th level, for 9 rays) Action Surge: Scorching Ray (upcasted to 7th level, for 8 rays)
I believe you can only cast 1 leveled spell per turn even if you action surge or quickened spell
A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn. You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
You quoted the rule for 2014. If you cast a spell as a bonus action, you can't have cast a spell other than a Cantrip and can't cast any afterwards as a Cantrip. The Sage Advice calls this out. If you don't use a bonus action spell, there is oddly no limit. I can't think of a way for this to come up outside of 2014 action surge. Maybe cast a spell, move, trigger damage, cast Shield or Absorb Elements as a Reaction on your turn?
In 2024, the level of the spell or action used no longer matters, just whether or not a spell slot is used.
Yes, I did quote the 2014 rules, and the 2024 rules separately in my post.
The archetypical way casting legally casting two leveled spells in a Turn without Action Surging would come up in the 2014 example would be:
Spellcaster Casts a Spell on their turn.
Foe within 60 feet uses Reaction to Counterspell Spellcaster's Spell.
Spellcaster uses their Reaction to Counterspell Foe's Counterspell.
In the 2024 rules, the level of the spell definitely does matter for Quickened Spell Metamagic, but I as far as I know in that ruleset, that is the only place so far that it explicitly does for the purposes of casting multiple spells on a Turn.
Quickened Spell
Cost: 2 Sorcery Points
When you cast a spell that has a casting time of an action, you can spend 2 Sorcery Points to change the casting time to a Bonus Action for this casting. You can’t modify a spell in this way if you’ve already cast a level 1+ spell on the current turn, nor can you cast a level 1+ spell on this turn after modifying a spell in this way.
In the 2024 rules, the level of the spell definitely does matter for Quickened Spell Metamagic, but I as far as I know in that ruleset, that is the only place so far that it explicitly does for the purposes of casting multiple spells on a Turn.
Quickened Spell
Cost: 2 Sorcery Points
When you cast a spell that has a casting time of an action, you can spend 2 Sorcery Points to change the casting time to a Bonus Action for this casting. You can’t modify a spell in this way if you’ve already cast a level 1+ spell on the current turn, nor can you cast a level 1+ spell on this turn after modifying a spell in this way.
I have to think that is carrying forward the restriction on spell level is in error in the editing process. I thought in one of the Designer interviews, Jeremy Crawford mentioned that it was no longer a restriction (but probably would not have called out quickened spell explicitly).
Now, I am relatively new to the game and D&D Beyond, however, I absolutely love optimizing builds and unique rule interactions. I have devised a character that can essentially eliminate any official monster in 5e---assuming good rolls at least. The question remains, does it work? Well, as far as I can interpret, it absolutely does, and thus it is my favorite homemade build.
Bugbear
Fighter 2/Assassin Rogue 3/Evocation Wizard 15
For the purpose of this build I ain't worried about stats, but pretend I rolled as follows:
STR 8 (-0)
DEX 14 (+2)
CON 16 (+3)
INT 18 (+4)
WIS 10 (+0)
CHA 11 (+0)
While it would be a slow beginning, starting off with two levels of fighter, then 3 levels into assassin rogue, and finally evocation wizard all the way---I get armor proficiencies for half-plate and most weapon proficiencies, as well as proficiency in Constitution saving throws.
Consider the wording of the following abilities:
Surprise Attack (Bugbear):
If you hit a creature with an attack roll, the creature takes an extra 2d6 damage if it hasn’t taken a turn yet in the current combat.
Definitely something to take note of here---it doesn't say weapon attack, only "If you hit a creature with an attack roll." Then:
Assassinate (Assassin Rogue)
Starting at 3rd level, you are at your deadliest when you get the drop on your enemies. You have advantage on attack rolls against any creature that hasn't taken a turn in the combat yet. In addition, any hit you score against a creature that is surprised is a critical hit.
Again, attack rolls and hits, no weapons.
So then I thought of the spell with possibly the most attack rolls: Scorching Ray. Both of these abilities could apply to that spell. Then things get exciting around level 8+. I'll just jump to level 20 to see its full effects.
At each ASI, I increase +2 Intelligence, and take the Alert and Metamagic Adept (transmuted and distant) feats.
Turn 1 of combat (after landing a surprise on the opponent. Alert helping go before the enemy):
Action: Scorching Ray (upcasted to 8th level, for 9 rays)
Action Surge: Scorching Ray (upcasted to 7th level, for 8 rays)
Bonus Action: Hide [cunning action, prepare for another attack from the shadows?]
Possible Damage for turn 1: (auto-crit from Assassinate) 2 x 17 rays x (2d6 + 2d6) + 17 x 5 = maximum of 901 fire damage (or thunder if I transmute it)
That alone can take out ANY BOSS, assuming I roll high. However, assuming we were in a dungeon, I could use arcane eye and just go scouting ahead, I could upcast Spirit Shroud to 5th level before I even enter the room, and all of a sudden, any surprised creature that is caught within my spirit shroud is simply dead meat. Imagine the dungeon's front door being blown apart as a formidable or perhaps even pitiful-looking party charges through the door. Would you NOT be surprised by 17 rays of concussive thunderwaves aiming right for you with advantage and auto-criting? The damage drastically increases with the upcasted spirit shroud: 2 x 17 x (2d6 + 2d6 + 2d8) + 17 x 5 = to a maximum of 1,445 THUNDER DAMAGE (again, assuming I use both sorcery points to transmute the spell. Alternatively, distant spell on spirit shroud?? Correct me if I'm wrong...has ANYONE seen this much damage TURN 1 of combat before?!
There is not a monster in 5e who's hit points even come CLOSE! And I can spread that damage on up to 17 TARGETS.
Perhaps y'all more experienced than me could break it down more...I can clarify the build I have here if needed. That's all apart from the idea that with Overchannel the character can then deal around 500 damage consistently, every turn after the first. 'Course the rest would be fire damage. Does this all work? Is it effective? Is it the highest damage on a single turn yet? If it doesn't work *shoulders shrug*
You don't add your intelligence modifier to every hit of scorching ray. That brings you down to 821 damage. If you multiply that by a hit rate of 88% (65% with adv.), you get 720 damage. Spirit shroud should work, but only within ten feet of the target. You can find similar discussions in these threads: thread other thread, with comment 362 on the first pointing out a similar build with more damage. Also, to point out a higher single turn damage build I came up with, be a level 17 wild magic sorcerer, cast time stop, wild magic surge and regen lowest expended spell slot (9) to cast meteor swarm and repeat, casting time stop every few turns. This is infinite max damage.
O'contraire, the evocation wizard's Empowered Evocation feature enables the addition of my intelligence modifier to the spell. Of course I couldn't make every hit, however, I have advantage on every attack role due to Assassinate. For the purpose of the post I am supposing each hit. I should clarify this may be the highest single target damage, as meteor swarm definitely can't reach that high on a single target, and the restrictions on time stop are as follows:
"This spell ends if one of the actions you use during this period, or any effects that you create during this period, affects a creature other than you or an object being worn or carried by someone other than you. In addition, the spell ends if you move to a place more than 1,000 feet from the location where you cast it." Meaning you can't cast meteor swarm without halting any further time stop application.
The 10ft. restriction is a bugger indeed for the damage of the build, but it is certainly possible to get within that range of the target.
Furthermore, I am not factoring that abuse lots of prep time, such as infinite elementals and coffeelock, and simulacrum chains (although the latter can be accomplished by this build as well).
Technically that means to two of the rolls.
As for time stop, I'm surprised nobody corrected me earlier. You can, however, use delayed blast fireball.
Thanks for catching the Empowered Evocation error. I wasn't sure if that meant one roll per target but in hindsight that's a silly idea.
That would still mean, however, I could reach upwards of 1,365 damage against a single target (varying on number of hits). Interestingly enough, I asked a question posed against my DM that I should ask here. His interpretation is automatically overpowered XD.
The Overchannel ability for the evocation wizard: when it says you can max spells of levels 1-5, does that mean spells ORIGINALLY of levels 1-5, meaning I could max the upcasted version of it, or spells that I CAST at levels 1-5. He said originally, meaning I could technically get MAX 1,365 damage on this turn (again assuming hits)! Personally I do not think this is universal though, and he may very well change it.
No it means a spell cast on 1-5. A spell is the level it is cast at not the level it is listed at.
I was getting ready to say that doesn't work. Delayed fireball does work however except only once due to concentration.
I believe you can only cast 1 leveled spell per turn even if you action surge or quickened spell
That has never been true in 5th Edition D&D.
In the 2014 rules, there is the Bonus Action spell rule, and that was it. Action Surge is provides an extra standard action, with all that entails, including the use of the Cast a Spell action as an option. (Relevant 2014 Sage Advice Answer )
And under the 2024 Rules, the Bonus Action Spell rule is gone, and replaced with the One Spell Per Turn with a Spell Slot Rule (With special rules for Action Surge [No spellcasting], and Quickened Spell metamagic [Basically the 2014 Bonus Action Spell rule])
There are a host of ways to cast spells without Spell Slots, including various Species Features, Class Features, Scrolls, and other Magic Items.
🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
Charisma Saving Throw: DC 18, Failure: 20d6 Psychic Damage, Success: Half damage
You quoted the rule for 2014. If you cast a spell as a bonus action, you can't have cast a spell other than a Cantrip and can't cast any afterwards as a Cantrip. The Sage Advice calls this out. If you don't use a bonus action spell, there is oddly no limit. I can't think of a way for this to come up outside of 2014 action surge. Maybe cast a spell, move, trigger damage, cast Shield or Absorb Elements as a Reaction on your turn?
In 2024, the level of the spell or action used no longer matters, just whether or not a spell slot is used.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
Yes, I did quote the 2014 rules, and the 2024 rules separately in my post.
The archetypical way casting legally casting two leveled spells in a Turn without Action Surging would come up in the 2014 example would be:
In the 2024 rules, the level of the spell definitely does matter for Quickened Spell Metamagic, but I as far as I know in that ruleset, that is the only place so far that it explicitly does for the purposes of casting multiple spells on a Turn.
🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
Charisma Saving Throw: DC 18, Failure: 20d6 Psychic Damage, Success: Half damage
Yes, I was not saying you were incorrect. Only that you quoted the restriction for 2014.
I have to think that is carrying forward the restriction on spell level is in error in the editing process. I thought in one of the Designer interviews, Jeremy Crawford mentioned that it was no longer a restriction (but probably would not have called out quickened spell explicitly).
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.