So I am multiclassing a Paladin Oat of Devo and the Arcane Trickster. I have read in more than a handful of places that the Arcane Trickster has spells that don't rely on intelligence, but I don't understand how that is the case because the subclass explicitly states that INT is the spell casting ability. Am I missing something here? Are there cantrips that don't follow this rule?
Basically, you will be wanting to use spells that don't make a spell attack and that don't force a save. The only attack spells that fall into this are the SCAG cantrips that qualify. Otherwise, you're looking at lots of utility spells and buff spells. Your spellcasting ability for those spells will still be intelligence, but they don't require high intelligence to be effective.
Go to the spells page for the wizard. Filter spell levels by cantrip, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. Since most of your spells will be enchantment or illusion, you should sort by those schools as well. You will still want to take a look without those filters since you can occasionally gain spells from other schools.
Then when searching you can ignore any spell with an entry in the Attack/Save column, as those will always utilize your spell modifier or spell save DC.
You still need to read the full description as some spells, such as minor illusion and disguise self, can be detected by a successful Intelligence (Investigation) check against your spell save DC.
I remember reading a thread about an Eldritch Knight multiclass who had low INT so that build focused on defensive and utility spells so there was no spell attack or save DC involved. The same principle could be applied here.
I remember reading a thread about an Eldritch Knight multiclass who had low INT so that build focused on defensive and utility spells so there was no spell attack or save DC involved. The same principle could be applied here.
Would you say that would be better multi-class option for a dex based Paladin? I guess the main differences would be one may be more optimized in battle while the other is better for utility? I like the sneak attack stack rogue gives me bu extra attack, action surge and extra fighting style may be better? Id figure I should ask instead of creating a new thread.
I would say it boils down to why you multiclassed into AT to begin with. What does a paladin/AT give you that you wanted when you were just a paladin? At rogue 3, you could pick up mold earth, booming blade, green flame blade, sleep, find familiar, and color spray and the fact that your save DC is low and your spell attack modifier is weak would be completely irrelevant.
My own opinion is that if the way you play your character lends itself to that combination, then go for it even if it isn't mechanically optimal.
I think you should first look at what TexasDevin advised, then you can consider a few things to optimize within your chosen build. There are good reasons for going one or the other, and I say good reasons for taking a few levels in both.
A Paladin 11/Arcane Trickster 9 build Paladin 10/Eldritch Knight 10 build, both with low intelligence, have a similar ability at mid-level.
EK 10 - Eldritch Strike - At 10th level, you learn how to make your weapon strikes undercut a creature’s resistance to your spells. When you hit a creature with a weapon attack, that creature has disadvantage on the next saving throw it makes against a spell you cast before the end of your next turn.
AT 9 - Magical Ambush - Starting at 9th level, if you are hidden from a creature when you cast a spell on it, the creature has disadvantage on any saving throw it makes against the spell this turn.
From one perspective, either of these abilities could be a boon to you, allowing you to now choose some spells requiring a saving throw that now have a better chance of success since you impose disadvantage.
From another perspective, if your Spell Save DC is so low that even imposing disadvantage isn't quite as beneficial, especially at higher levels, then you may want to go for 12 levels in Paladin and eschew those abilities. Paladin 12/EK 8 or Paladin 12/AT 8 are both very good builds.
You may also consider Paladin 12/EK 4/AT 4, Paladin 11/AT 7/Fighter 2 or Paladin 10/EK 7/AT 3 as viable options. You still get Sneak Attack and Action Surge, a bunch of low-level spells (you're probably dumping most of your spell slots into Divine Smite anyways) and other goodies depending on what fits your preferences.
So I am multiclassing a Paladin Oat of Devo and the Arcane Trickster. I have read in more than a handful of places that the Arcane Trickster has spells that don't rely on intelligence, but I don't understand how that is the case because the subclass explicitly states that INT is the spell casting ability. Am I missing something here? Are there cantrips that don't follow this rule?
Basically, you will be wanting to use spells that don't make a spell attack and that don't force a save. The only attack spells that fall into this are the SCAG cantrips that qualify. Otherwise, you're looking at lots of utility spells and buff spells. Your spellcasting ability for those spells will still be intelligence, but they don't require high intelligence to be effective.
Some spells of note that don't use int, booming blade, green flame blade, (well, technically gfb uses int) find familiar, sleep, mage armor, shield, magic missile, mirror image, invisibility, shadow blade. Lots more, but I'm tired of listing.
Go to the spells page for the wizard. Filter spell levels by cantrip, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. Since most of your spells will be enchantment or illusion, you should sort by those schools as well. You will still want to take a look without those filters since you can occasionally gain spells from other schools.
Then when searching you can ignore any spell with an entry in the Attack/Save column, as those will always utilize your spell modifier or spell save DC.
You still need to read the full description as some spells, such as minor illusion and disguise self, can be detected by a successful Intelligence (Investigation) check against your spell save DC.
I remember reading a thread about an Eldritch Knight multiclass who had low INT so that build focused on defensive and utility spells so there was no spell attack or save DC involved. The same principle could be applied here.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Would you say that would be better multi-class option for a dex based Paladin? I guess the main differences would be one may be more optimized in battle while the other is better for utility? I like the sneak attack stack rogue gives me bu extra attack, action surge and extra fighting style may be better? Id figure I should ask instead of creating a new thread.
I would say it boils down to why you multiclassed into AT to begin with. What does a paladin/AT give you that you wanted when you were just a paladin? At rogue 3, you could pick up mold earth, booming blade, green flame blade, sleep, find familiar, and color spray and the fact that your save DC is low and your spell attack modifier is weak would be completely irrelevant.
My own opinion is that if the way you play your character lends itself to that combination, then go for it even if it isn't mechanically optimal.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I think you should first look at what TexasDevin advised, then you can consider a few things to optimize within your chosen build. There are good reasons for going one or the other, and I say good reasons for taking a few levels in both.
A Paladin 11/Arcane Trickster 9 build Paladin 10/Eldritch Knight 10 build, both with low intelligence, have a similar ability at mid-level.
From one perspective, either of these abilities could be a boon to you, allowing you to now choose some spells requiring a saving throw that now have a better chance of success since you impose disadvantage.
From another perspective, if your Spell Save DC is so low that even imposing disadvantage isn't quite as beneficial, especially at higher levels, then you may want to go for 12 levels in Paladin and eschew those abilities. Paladin 12/EK 8 or Paladin 12/AT 8 are both very good builds.
You may also consider Paladin 12/EK 4/AT 4, Paladin 11/AT 7/Fighter 2 or Paladin 10/EK 7/AT 3 as viable options. You still get Sneak Attack and Action Surge, a bunch of low-level spells (you're probably dumping most of your spell slots into Divine Smite anyways) and other goodies depending on what fits your preferences.