I am playing a moon druid that started with 2 levels of barbarian. I was looking over my character and thought about the difference between 2 levels of monk over my current build. Barbs get Con save for maintaining spells while on the front line, also rage and better out of wild shape combat extras. After looking at the monk, I was wondering if there was a strength I had not seen in Ki, extra move, and martial arts. The two different types of unarmored defense have minor benefits leaning toward the monk side, but I was interested in what the masses think.
My ASIs are set like this: Warcaster, +2 Wis, Bountiful Luck or Mobility, +2 Wis
Thanks.
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IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
Either Monk or Barbarian will vastly improve the ACs of your beasts, so a single level of splash goes along way (Druid 20 capstone is amazing, but assuming you’re building for low level, the splashes are nicer).
The monk unarmed damage and bonus attacks won’t stack with beast attacks. And chasing too many levels of monk for better-than-beast attacks may be an interesting way to build a shapechanging monk, but it’s a poor way to build a moon Druid, who needs to progress into bigger beasts with bigger hp pools. But things like bonus speed, catch arrows, stunning strike... all pretty cool tricks to pull off as a wolf. And, multiclassing monk excuses you for dumping all your ASI into wisdom, since it’ll improve your DCs and AC in and out of wild shape.
The barbarian stacks easier, although rage does prevent you from maintaining concentration on buffs like Barkskin. But damage reduction, improved armor, bonus damage on beast attacks, improved speed... totem barbarian in particular stacks well, as does berserker. But it can be weird dumping feats and ask into dex, con, and str, given that those stats are all overwritten every time you wild shape.
Monk/Druid is a little weird, but can be built very focused by playing a tortle that only really needs wisdom. Barb/Druid is a brick house, and is probably one of the tankiest things you could build without thinking too hard on.
Either Monk or Barbarian will vastly improve the ACs of your beasts,
Maybe, depending on the beast. For example, lets look at the always popular cave bear. It has AC 12 (Natural Armour). Using the Barbarian's Unarmoured Defense feature, it would have AC 13. Not bad, but not a vast improvement. Using the Monk's Unarmoured Defense (assuming your GM rules that natural armour is counted as unarmoured), it would have an AC of 10 + your Druid's WIS modifer. If your WIS is 16 then this AC is 13.
A moon druid 7 / monk 2 suffers from only being able to use CR 2 beasts. A moon druid 9 can use CR 3 beasts and can choose flying beasts. Is 2 levels of Monk worth that? Multiclassing is all about tradeoffs.
I started as a halfling barbarian for 2 levels, then the GM offered me the ability to become a druid because of some role play opportunity from an awakened dire wolf druid. I liked the idea, and it fit my character so I went with it. I was inducted(?) into the class by the awakened dire wolf under the full moon, hence moon druid path. Cheesy reason, but it is fun running a character who feels attached to the lunar cycle through role playing. Three levels later I am looking at moon druid for obvious reasons, POWER!!! And the neat ability to turn into cooler animals. My damage is fine and I mix up using rage and wildshape separately as the encounter dictates.
I enjoy the versatility of options a great deal, spell collection is fun, and being a really grumpy, 2'10", half naked, stinky halfling ready to get into a bar brawl every time the group goes into town and being able to hold his own is super hilarious. Also, watching the goliath fighter always having to hold him back from ripping someone's ear off is even more laughable.
I was looking into the idea of the monk as another avenue to enhance wildshape, but I am really unfamiliar with monks in general.
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IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
As a DM, I'd argue that a wolf can't really catch arrows since it doesn't have hands to do it. And if you argue it's catching the arrows in its teeth, then it certainly can't throw the arrow back.
But, I'd say it's just a trade-off. With monk, you can maintain concentration easier, and make use of the extra movement and probably things like stunning strike and flurry of blows in your animal form. I'd also probably let you get away with using your monk damage dice if it's a bigger die than the animal form's attack. With barbarian, your rage lets you shrug off half damage most of the time and add rage damage to your attacks.
Specifically for AC, I prefer monk because I always try to maximize Wis as long as it's the spellcasting ability for druids (with point buy and 2 ASI you can do it and that's +5). Also, druid uses own wis and beast's con in wild shape, so wis is more persistant. That's the advantage of monk but if you're going for an ultimate tank, you need 3 levels of barbarian (bear totem for resistances) so taking it might be a better idea.
I think you're only missing stunning strike worth to worry about :D
P.S. Try to get amulet of health and keep it in wild shape <3
Either Monk or Barbarian will vastly improve the ACs of your beasts,
Maybe, depending on the beast. For example, lets look at the always popular cave bear. It has AC 12 (Natural Armour). Using the Barbarian's Unarmoured Defense feature, it would have AC 13. Not bad, but not a vast improvement. Using the Monk's Unarmoured Defense (assuming your GM rules that natural armour is counted as unarmoured), it would have an AC of 10 + your Druid's WIS modifer. If your WIS is 16 then this AC is 13.
A moon druid 7 / monk 2 suffers from only being able to use CR 2 beasts. A moon druid 9 can use CR 3 beasts and can choose flying beasts. Is 2 levels of Monk worth that? Multiclassing is all about tradeoffs.
My first 5E campaign, we had one guy who played a Hill Dwarf Druid/Barb combo. He mixed in 3 levels of Barb so he could go Bear Totem for the resistances, and turned into a pretty solid character.
The new "Path of the Beast" UA Barbarian Subclass could synergize very well with Druid, by providing some new options for Natural Weapon attacks for sturdy forms whose defense you care about more than their attack modes. At later levels, it also provides a group-buff effect while raging..
I don't think animals have unarmed strike at all or u can count their natural weapons as monk weapon, that's why u cant use flurry of blows and their martial arts die.
But stunning strike and bonus action dodge are pretty awesome
The new "Path of the Beast" UA Barbarian Subclass could synergize very well with Druid, by providing some new options for Natural Weapon attacks for sturdy forms whose defense you care about more than their attack modes. At later levels, it also provides a group-buff effect while raging..
Not to derail the thread, but.... what does this mean for the "fey-rage" Barbarian we have in UA here on DnD Beyond, along with the 2 Rogue UA and the Warlock "sea monster" UA patron? I see none of those listed in that article, but that is from the official WotC DnD site rather than DnD Beyond.
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Hello optimizers,
I am playing a moon druid that started with 2 levels of barbarian. I was looking over my character and thought about the difference between 2 levels of monk over my current build. Barbs get Con save for maintaining spells while on the front line, also rage and better out of wild shape combat extras. After looking at the monk, I was wondering if there was a strength I had not seen in Ki, extra move, and martial arts. The two different types of unarmored defense have minor benefits leaning toward the monk side, but I was interested in what the masses think.
My ASIs are set like this: Warcaster, +2 Wis, Bountiful Luck or Mobility, +2 Wis
Thanks.
IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
Either Monk or Barbarian will vastly improve the ACs of your beasts, so a single level of splash goes along way (Druid 20 capstone is amazing, but assuming you’re building for low level, the splashes are nicer).
The monk unarmed damage and bonus attacks won’t stack with beast attacks. And chasing too many levels of monk for better-than-beast attacks may be an interesting way to build a shapechanging monk, but it’s a poor way to build a moon Druid, who needs to progress into bigger beasts with bigger hp pools. But things like bonus speed, catch arrows, stunning strike... all pretty cool tricks to pull off as a wolf. And, multiclassing monk excuses you for dumping all your ASI into wisdom, since it’ll improve your DCs and AC in and out of wild shape.
The barbarian stacks easier, although rage does prevent you from maintaining concentration on buffs like Barkskin. But damage reduction, improved armor, bonus damage on beast attacks, improved speed... totem barbarian in particular stacks well, as does berserker. But it can be weird dumping feats and ask into dex, con, and str, given that those stats are all overwritten every time you wild shape.
Monk/Druid is a little weird, but can be built very focused by playing a tortle that only really needs wisdom. Barb/Druid is a brick house, and is probably one of the tankiest things you could build without thinking too hard on.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Maybe, depending on the beast. For example, lets look at the always popular cave bear. It has AC 12 (Natural Armour). Using the Barbarian's Unarmoured Defense feature, it would have AC 13. Not bad, but not a vast improvement. Using the Monk's Unarmoured Defense (assuming your GM rules that natural armour is counted as unarmoured), it would have an AC of 10 + your Druid's WIS modifer. If your WIS is 16 then this AC is 13.
A moon druid 7 / monk 2 suffers from only being able to use CR 2 beasts. A moon druid 9 can use CR 3 beasts and can choose flying beasts. Is 2 levels of Monk worth that? Multiclassing is all about tradeoffs.
I started as a halfling barbarian for 2 levels, then the GM offered me the ability to become a druid because of some role play opportunity from an awakened dire wolf druid. I liked the idea, and it fit my character so I went with it. I was inducted(?) into the class by the awakened dire wolf under the full moon, hence moon druid path. Cheesy reason, but it is fun running a character who feels attached to the lunar cycle through role playing. Three levels later I am looking at moon druid for obvious reasons, POWER!!! And the neat ability to turn into cooler animals. My damage is fine and I mix up using rage and wildshape separately as the encounter dictates.
I enjoy the versatility of options a great deal, spell collection is fun, and being a really grumpy, 2'10", half naked, stinky halfling ready to get into a bar brawl every time the group goes into town and being able to hold his own is super hilarious. Also, watching the goliath fighter always having to hold him back from ripping someone's ear off is even more laughable.
I was looking into the idea of the monk as another avenue to enhance wildshape, but I am really unfamiliar with monks in general.
IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
As a DM, I'd argue that a wolf can't really catch arrows since it doesn't have hands to do it. And if you argue it's catching the arrows in its teeth, then it certainly can't throw the arrow back.
But, I'd say it's just a trade-off. With monk, you can maintain concentration easier, and make use of the extra movement and probably things like stunning strike and flurry of blows in your animal form. I'd also probably let you get away with using your monk damage dice if it's a bigger die than the animal form's attack. With barbarian, your rage lets you shrug off half damage most of the time and add rage damage to your attacks.
Both of these unarmored defenses add dex too.
Specifically for AC, I prefer monk because I always try to maximize Wis as long as it's the spellcasting ability for druids (with point buy and 2 ASI you can do it and that's +5). Also, druid uses own wis and beast's con in wild shape, so wis is more persistant. That's the advantage of monk but if you're going for an ultimate tank, you need 3 levels of barbarian (bear totem for resistances) so taking it might be a better idea.
I think you're only missing stunning strike worth to worry about :D
P.S. Try to get amulet of health and keep it in wild shape <3
My first 5E campaign, we had one guy who played a Hill Dwarf Druid/Barb combo. He mixed in 3 levels of Barb so he could go Bear Totem for the resistances, and turned into a pretty solid character.
The new "Path of the Beast" UA Barbarian Subclass could synergize very well with Druid, by providing some new options for Natural Weapon attacks for sturdy forms whose defense you care about more than their attack modes. At later levels, it also provides a group-buff effect while raging..
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
I don't think animals have unarmed strike at all or u can count their natural weapons as monk weapon, that's why u cant use flurry of blows and their martial arts die.
But stunning strike and bonus action dodge are pretty awesome
Not to derail the thread, but.... what does this mean for the "fey-rage" Barbarian we have in UA here on DnD Beyond, along with the 2 Rogue UA and the Warlock "sea monster" UA patron? I see none of those listed in that article, but that is from the official WotC DnD site rather than DnD Beyond.