So I have been wanting to play a Sorlock for a while and im finally getting my chance now and i've been trying to work out what is the best way to make one thinking of a 17/3 split or 18/2. I keep seeing arguments for both sides with most saying something along the lines of "If you're starting 20 then 18/2 is better but if your going to be playing through a campaign thats longer then 17/3 is better" And while for a quick basic answer this can be true the answer is much more complicated than that from my perspective.
When it comes to raw power the 18/2 and the 17/3 are basically the same as once you get the lvl 2 warlock you're online with the Agonizing EB and quickened EB along with Hexblades Curse and Hex being able to put out those big damage numbers so really in terms of damage numbers both are identical, the 3rd level of Warlock does VERY little for your power.
I often hear people talking about the fact your Warlock spells will level up when you do 17/3 and while this is true what those people are missing is that VERY few campaigns give enough short rests for it to be worth more than the extra level in Sorcerer. If we're talking purely spell slots being turned into Sorcery Points then you are getting a +2 (as your 2 slots go from being worth 1 each to 2) which on paper sounds great. But lets look at the most common time this comes online. which is level 8 as most ive seen go 5 sorc then 2-3 warlock
If I go the 3rd level of warlock then those slots level up giving me +2 Sorc points per short rest.
But If I were to take that 6th level of Sorcerer I get 1 extra level 3 spell slot This is the equivalent to +3 Sorc points per long rest.
So the question is...Am I likely going to be taking 2 short rests per long rest....And the answer to that is DM dependent but is likely no. Most of the time you get 1 short rest per long and MAYBE MAYBE 2 if its a LONG dungeon crawl but even then its rare. I have never taken 3 short rests so at worst with 2 rests the extra warlock level pulls ahead slightly and at best the extra level of Sorcerer is actually better in terms of utility
And lets not forget that the Sorcerer at that point has access to an extra level 3 spell and at its next level at 9 now can use level 4 spells vs the Warlock level being behind. And the gap with the Spell slots being turned into Sorc points grows the longer you go. As you level that +2 will start competing with extra spells slots of higher levels and it becomes no contest that the fact those level 2 slots regen on short rest doesn't compare to having those high level extra slots.
So if we're talking about being able to burn them into then going 18/2 is superior. But thats not the whole reason we go with Warlock, its the pacts
If you chose to take the 3 levels of Warlock you gain (and im assuming your picking Tome or Chain as Blade does close to nothing for this kind of character) either a upgraded Familiar or a few cantrips with the option to take on Rituals....Now I'll say that if your party has no Ritual users then taking Tome and the Invocation to get the rituals is probably worth more than the utility you gain from being 1 level ahead in Sorcerer. But if that utility is already met and keep in mind that as a Multiclass you already have something like 8 cantrips then what you get from Tome isn't going to really feel worth it. As for Pact of the Chain this is down to how creative you are and how much you want a cool pet....But you have to keep in mind what your losing.
Is your familiar or those extra cantrips worth more than being able to Polymorph or use Banishment a level earlier, Yes you will eventually catch up but to me always being behind. I would say that having EB and being able to quicken it IS worth more than getting those spells 2 levels earlier, by doing that you can focus most your spells on utility or healing or buffing or debuffing or whatever else your party needs because that EB will be able to do decent damage throughout, you might not be the best but you will hopefully never be completely useless.
And this is the basic debate. Is an Imp Familiar or Rituals/extra cantrips worth falling an extra level of power behind?
To me unless I am the only one able to use rituals the answer is a resounding no, I at one point was very keen on the familiar from POTC but considering I was coming in at level 9 it was basically a choice between a familiar or access to spells like Banishment and Polymorph, this put it in perspective to me....A imp is not more valuable to me than spells of that caliber. so this is my 2c but id love to hear other opinions on the matter and why people think that the 3rd level is so valuable
I think you've summed up trade off quite well. For me, the trade off would depend on the character and the campaign.
If you've got Catnap, you can effectively get more short rests. It's a 3rd level spell, putting it just outside your warlock spell slots and would mean that you are down further on your regeneration abilities. But if you've got another caster that is willing to upcast it to include you (or just spend it on you) then you'll get some great utility out of it. This is especially true if the other caster is also a warlock of at least 5th level (has to be MCed with at least a 5th level caster so at least a 10th level character, oof). It can also be beneficial if monks, fighters, and anyone else that gets benefits from short rests. Also, don't forget that a wizard has Arcane Recovery that can recover a third level slot starting at 5th level when they can cast the spell. But YMMV.
There are other strategies that can push the right tactic one way or the other. While you'll already have a lot of Cantrips with a Sorlock, it's also good to remember that Pact of the Tome can swipe cantrips from any class and makes them Warlock cantrips for you allowing you to cast them with Charisma. Didn't take Hexblade and wishing you could attack with charisma instead of dex or strength? You can take Shillelagh (seriously, read the spell). Have times when you need to attack and help defend at the same time? Vicious Mockery is now yours. There aren't loads of cantrips that aren't already available to you as a Sorlock, but Tomelock has access to every cantrip as a choice. Chain lock helps with scouting and a few social circumstances, not just "advantage on my attacks!"
18/2 may be the default choice for many characters or campaigns, but 17/3 is far from a bad choice.
Is your DM ignoring the 24 hr minimum per long rest? If not, it's unlikely you're doing 16hrs of adventuring with only one short rest. You might not be benefiting from the rest of the time you spend resting, but you're still able to take the rest. The only problem is finding a way to arrange it so that you can take a long rest followed by a series of short rests instead of a series of short rests followed by a long rest.
Is your DM ignoring the 24 hr minimum per long rest? If not, it's unlikely you're doing 16hrs of adventuring with only one short rest. You might not be benefiting from the rest of the time you spend resting, but you're still able to take the rest. The only problem is finding a way to arrange it so that you can take a long rest followed by a series of short rests instead of a series of short rests followed by a long rest.
Yes were doing this rule
The only time multiple short rests would ever come up is a long dungeon crawl, but ive found that in those situations if youre smart with your spell slots/sorc points it rarely matters
If youre going balls to the wall every fight then you're gonna want more long rests than thematically makes sense and an extra short rest makes little difference.
I think you've summed up trade off quite well. For me, the trade off would depend on the character and the campaign.
If you've got Catnap, you can effectively get more short rests. It's a 3rd level spell, putting it just outside your warlock spell slots and would mean that you are down further on your regeneration abilities. But if you've got another caster that is willing to upcast it to include you (or just spend it on you) then you'll get some great utility out of it. This is especially true if the other caster is also a warlock of at least 5th level (has to be MCed with at least a 5th level caster so at least a 10th level character, oof). It can also be beneficial if monks, fighters, and anyone else that gets benefits from short rests. Also, don't forget that a wizard has Arcane Recovery that can recover a third level slot starting at 5th level when they can cast the spell. But YMMV.
There are other strategies that can push the right tactic one way or the other. While you'll already have a lot of Cantrips with a Sorlock, it's also good to remember that Pact of the Tome can swipe cantrips from any class and makes them Warlock cantrips for you allowing you to cast them with Charisma. Didn't take Hexblade and wishing you could attack with charisma instead of dex or strength? You can take Shillelagh (seriously, read the spell). Have times when you need to attack and help defend at the same time? Vicious Mockery is now yours. There aren't loads of cantrips that aren't already available to you as a Sorlock, but Tomelock has access to every cantrip as a choice. Chain lock helps with scouting and a few social circumstances, not just "advantage on my attacks!"
18/2 may be the default choice for many characters or campaigns, but 17/3 is far from a bad choice.
It all comes down to what your campaign needs
For pure combat 18/2 is nearly always stronger. For pure utility id say it depends on if its the level the 18/2 gets the next spell level.
If you need rituals then 17/3 is probably even better utility wise at all levels
There's no 100% perfect answer to this question and its largely preference as the character will be competent in battle but fall a bit behind to optimized sharpshooter and GWM builds. But youll likely have a lot more utility and even be a big part of why those characters are doing big damage with things like haste
Is your DM ignoring the 24 hr minimum per long rest? If not, it's unlikely you're doing 16hrs of adventuring with only one short rest. You might not be benefiting from the rest of the time you spend resting, but you're still able to take the rest. The only problem is finding a way to arrange it so that you can take a long rest followed by a series of short rests instead of a series of short rests followed by a long rest.
Yes were doing this rule
The only time multiple short rests would ever come up is a long dungeon crawl, but ive found that in those situations if youre smart with your spell slots/sorc points it rarely matters
If youre going balls to the wall every fight then you're gonna want more long rests than thematically makes sense and an extra short rest makes little difference.
Most DMs only run 1 big fight per long rest
Well, if you're ignoring the rule, you probably don't need to sleep every 8hrs with 15m breaks in between for combat. That gives you 8 short rests to build up extra spell slots for your sorcerer.
so your suggesting that an adventuring day is 8 1 hour rests, 1 8 hour rest and constant fighting or exploring for 8 hours?
It doesn't ever work that way and unless you have a party of all short rest dependent people you're not going to want to keep short resting every hour for an hour, it breaks immersion and doesn't make sense. Despite the fact that you might have "downtime" the most common time this will ever come up is during a dungeon crawl, since I cant make more slots than I ever have. while im exploring a town or even traveling its rare to have more than 1-2 encounters per long rest so the only time this will ever come up is during a dungeon crawl
At that point you will find that most of the time there is maybe 1 short rest and possibly a long one after many many hours in the dungeon. TOA jumps out at me, theres no way you could do that without long rests. But its very rare for more than 2 short rests to EVER come up. You don't ever short rest 8 times in an adventuring day.
so your suggesting that an adventuring day is 8 1 hour rests, 1 8 hour rest and constant fighting or exploring for 8 hours?
It doesn't ever work that way and unless you have a party of all short rest dependent people you're not going to want to keep short resting every hour for an hour, it breaks immersion and doesn't make sense. Despite the fact that you might have "downtime" the most common time this will ever come up is during a dungeon crawl, since I cant make more slots than I ever have. while im exploring a town or even traveling its rare to have more than 1-2 encounters per long rest so the only time this will ever come up is during a dungeon crawl
You don't need the rest of the party to take 8 short rests, their 24 hr day is 8hr long rest, adventure for up to 4hrs, 8hr long rest, adventure for up to 4hrs. You just take 8 short rests while they take a long rest. You're already taking 8+ short rests per day, you're just not declaring them. For most of the group a 24hr day will be 1hr (or whatever) adventuring, 15hr sitting around, (short resting without the benefits) 8hr long rest. What you need to do is find a way to make yours 1hr adventuring, 8hr long rest, 15 consecutive short rests, converting spell slots in between.
As for the slots, unless it's a house rule, (in which case you have multiple house rules changing balance against you) you can make more slots than you start with. One of the possible tricks for pure sorcerers is to make a 4th level slot at level 6 or 5th level slot at 7-8, you can only use those slots to upcast spells, but you get more powerful spells than you would normally have. The restriction on converting slots is that you can't ever have more sorcery points than your sorcerer level.
Edit: Realized I got my wires crossed with another discussion on the topic without the 24hr limit.
I think it depends on your sorcerer class. With divine soul, some (potentially quickened) healing spells and the chain pact invocation "Gift of the Everliving Ones" your survival chances will skyrocket.
You still get 9th level sorcerer spells and returning to full hp in a bonus action after a monster hit you is extremely powerful (not to mention the awesome narrative).
so your suggesting that an adventuring day is 8 1 hour rests, 1 8 hour rest and constant fighting or exploring for 8 hours?
It doesn't ever work that way and unless you have a party of all short rest dependent people you're not going to want to keep short resting every hour for an hour, it breaks immersion and doesn't make sense. Despite the fact that you might have "downtime" the most common time this will ever come up is during a dungeon crawl, since I cant make more slots than I ever have. while im exploring a town or even traveling its rare to have more than 1-2 encounters per long rest so the only time this will ever come up is during a dungeon crawl
You don't need the rest of the party to take 8 short rests, their 24 hr day is 8hr long rest, adventure for up to 4hrs, 8hr long rest, adventure for up to 4hrs. You just take 8 short rests while they take a long rest. You're already taking 8+ short rests per day, you're just not declaring them. For most of the group a 24hr day will be 1hr (or whatever) adventuring, 15hr sitting around, (short resting without the benefits) 8hr long rest. What you need to do is find a way to make yours 1hr adventuring, 8hr long rest, 15 consecutive short rests, converting spell slots in between.
As for the slots, unless it's a house rule, (in which case you have multiple house rules changing balance against you) you can make more slots than you start with. One of the possible tricks for pure sorcerers is to make a 4th level slot at level 6 or 5th level slot at 7-8, you can only use those slots to upcast spells, but you get more powerful spells than you would normally have. The restriction on converting slots is that you can't ever have more sorcery points than your sorcerer level.
Edit: Realized I got my wires crossed with another discussion on the topic without the 24hr limit.
Theres a big difference between "taking a short rest" and having time for a short rest as you mention. Not very often do you have 15 hours before where the party is sitting around and you can just convert and rest. In fact I have never seen that done in a campaign. You would be literally asking your group to sit around for 15 hours prior to going into a dungeon or doing it after when your about to Long rest anyways.
In theory that makes sense...In practice its like the Darkness Combo with Devils Sight....Sounds cool....but wont come up much as super useful due to how it ****s your party
I think it depends on your sorcerer class. With divine soul, some (potentially quickened) healing spells and the chain pact invocation "Gift of the Everliving Ones" your survival chances will skyrocket.
You still get 9th level sorcerer spells and returning to full hp in a bonus action after a monster hit you is extremely powerful (not to mention the awesome narrative).
Yes it is very useful, and the fact that the imp can be invisible and near you is also very useful for a healer, but the point of a Sorlock isn't to be a healer, thats more of a life cleric job, your a utility and EB cannon really. Personally id prefer to get my spells quicker over upping my healing powers when that's more my secondary job.
I think it depends on your sorcerer class. With divine soul, some (potentially quickened) healing spells and the chain pact invocation "Gift of the Everliving Ones" your survival chances will skyrocket.
You still get 9th level sorcerer spells and returning to full hp in a bonus action after a monster hit you is extremely powerful (not to mention the awesome narrative).
Yes it is very useful, and the fact that the imp can be invisible and near you is also very useful for a healer, but the point of a Sorlock isn't to be a healer, thats more of a life cleric job, your a utility and EB cannon really. Personally id prefer to get my spells quicker over upping my healing powers when that's more my secondary job.
I was reading it not as you being a healer for the group, rather as something to be used like Second Wind for a Fighter. Being able to guarantee a max heal on a heal of any sort used on you just means your more efficient that way. Instead of Cure Wounds being 1d8 plus Spellcasting mod, it's now 8 plus spell casting mod. Potion of Healing is now 10 instead of 2d4+2. Your hit die will be 8+con mod and 6+con mod. It doesn't affect your heals on anyone else at all. If you are a Divine Soul Sorcerer, it does mean that you can take Warding Bond to cast on someone, stiffen them up a bit, soak some of their damage, and help the healer be more efficient when they have to heal you. I'm not talking about doing it to a tank or even a melee character, but there could be moments when the wizard needs extra help holding a concentration spell or something like that.
The idea may still not fit with your concept, which is fine, but it is another trick that 17/3 can do. If you are willing to forgo Agonizing Blast; Gift of the Ever-Living one's, Devil's Sight, Warding Bond cast on the other character and Darkness cast on you would make for a nice defensive position that still allows you to do good damage. It does take away a lot from the blasty Sorlock Default (2 second level spell slots, Agonizing Blast's extra damage, and flexibility to choose anything else for an invocation) and would understandably be not for everyone. It would be noted that Darkness wouldn't have to be cast by you for this to work, and a character could just hide behind or in the darkness if their main concern was to maintain concentration, but it's still another option.
Theres a big difference between "taking a short rest" and having time for a short rest as you mention. Not very often do you have 15 hours before where the party is sitting around and you can just convert and rest. In fact I have never seen that done in a campaign. You would be literally asking your group to sit around for 15 hours prior to going into a dungeon or doing it after when your about to Long rest anyways.
In theory that makes sense...In practice its like the Darkness Combo with Devils Sight....Sounds cool....but wont come up much as super useful due to how it ****s your party
If the party is taking long rests every few fights and the 24hr limit between long rests is enforced, 12hrs of sitting around wouldn't be surprising. Having 15 would be in the extreme 15 minute adventuring day version.
Theres a big difference between "taking a short rest" and having time for a short rest as you mention. Not very often do you have 15 hours before where the party is sitting around and you can just convert and rest. In fact I have never seen that done in a campaign. You would be literally asking your group to sit around for 15 hours prior to going into a dungeon or doing it after when your about to Long rest anyways.
In theory that makes sense...In practice its like the Darkness Combo with Devils Sight....Sounds cool....but wont come up much as super useful due to how it ****s your party
If the party is taking long rests every few fights and the 24hr limit between long rests is enforced, 12hrs of sitting around wouldn't be surprising. Having 15 would be in the extreme 15 minute adventuring day version.
Except when you do sit around for 12 hours as you say you do it waiting until you can long rest. you dont ever sit around for more than 2 short rests worth unless your just "Waiting to LR"
Except when you do sit around for 12 hours as you say you do it waiting until you can long rest. you dont ever sit around for more than 2 short rests worth unless your just "Waiting to LR"
At which point you LR and lose all the gains.
Which is why I said you had to arrange it so you're taking your long rest while the rest of the party has theirs "on cooldown" so you can short rest while they're taking their long rest. If nothing else, you can do this by skipping your long rest one day, instead sleeping during the time where you're incapable of benefiting from a long rest.
Jiendo, you've made three threads asking this same question. It sounds very much as if you've made up your mind. Perhaps take three threads' worth of discussion as a fair answer to your question, and make the 18/2 sorlock you clearly desire, hm?
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So I have been wanting to play a Sorlock for a while and im finally getting my chance now and i've been trying to work out what is the best way to make one thinking of a 17/3 split or 18/2. I keep seeing arguments for both sides with most saying something along the lines of "If you're starting 20 then 18/2 is better but if your going to be playing through a campaign thats longer then 17/3 is better" And while for a quick basic answer this can be true the answer is much more complicated than that from my perspective.
When it comes to raw power the 18/2 and the 17/3 are basically the same as once you get the lvl 2 warlock you're online with the Agonizing EB and quickened EB along with Hexblades Curse and Hex being able to put out those big damage numbers so really in terms of damage numbers both are identical, the 3rd level of Warlock does VERY little for your power.
I often hear people talking about the fact your Warlock spells will level up when you do 17/3 and while this is true what those people are missing is that VERY few campaigns give enough short rests for it to be worth more than the extra level in Sorcerer. If we're talking purely spell slots being turned into Sorcery Points then you are getting a +2 (as your 2 slots go from being worth 1 each to 2) which on paper sounds great. But lets look at the most common time this comes online. which is level 8 as most ive seen go 5 sorc then 2-3 warlock
If I go the 3rd level of warlock then those slots level up giving me +2 Sorc points per short rest.
But If I were to take that 6th level of Sorcerer I get 1 extra level 3 spell slot This is the equivalent to +3 Sorc points per long rest.
So the question is...Am I likely going to be taking 2 short rests per long rest....And the answer to that is DM dependent but is likely no. Most of the time you get 1 short rest per long and MAYBE MAYBE 2 if its a LONG dungeon crawl but even then its rare. I have never taken 3 short rests so at worst with 2 rests the extra warlock level pulls ahead slightly and at best the extra level of Sorcerer is actually better in terms of utility
And lets not forget that the Sorcerer at that point has access to an extra level 3 spell and at its next level at 9 now can use level 4 spells vs the Warlock level being behind. And the gap with the Spell slots being turned into Sorc points grows the longer you go. As you level that +2 will start competing with extra spells slots of higher levels and it becomes no contest that the fact those level 2 slots regen on short rest doesn't compare to having those high level extra slots.
So if we're talking about being able to burn them into then going 18/2 is superior. But thats not the whole reason we go with Warlock, its the pacts
If you chose to take the 3 levels of Warlock you gain (and im assuming your picking Tome or Chain as Blade does close to nothing for this kind of character) either a upgraded Familiar or a few cantrips with the option to take on Rituals....Now I'll say that if your party has no Ritual users then taking Tome and the Invocation to get the rituals is probably worth more than the utility you gain from being 1 level ahead in Sorcerer. But if that utility is already met and keep in mind that as a Multiclass you already have something like 8 cantrips then what you get from Tome isn't going to really feel worth it. As for Pact of the Chain this is down to how creative you are and how much you want a cool pet....But you have to keep in mind what your losing.
Is your familiar or those extra cantrips worth more than being able to Polymorph or use Banishment a level earlier, Yes you will eventually catch up but to me always being behind. I would say that having EB and being able to quicken it IS worth more than getting those spells 2 levels earlier, by doing that you can focus most your spells on utility or healing or buffing or debuffing or whatever else your party needs because that EB will be able to do decent damage throughout, you might not be the best but you will hopefully never be completely useless.
And this is the basic debate. Is an Imp Familiar or Rituals/extra cantrips worth falling an extra level of power behind?
To me unless I am the only one able to use rituals the answer is a resounding no, I at one point was very keen on the familiar from POTC but considering I was coming in at level 9 it was basically a choice between a familiar or access to spells like Banishment and Polymorph, this put it in perspective to me....A imp is not more valuable to me than spells of that caliber. so this is my 2c but id love to hear other opinions on the matter and why people think that the 3rd level is so valuable
I think you've summed up trade off quite well. For me, the trade off would depend on the character and the campaign.
If you've got Catnap, you can effectively get more short rests. It's a 3rd level spell, putting it just outside your warlock spell slots and would mean that you are down further on your regeneration abilities. But if you've got another caster that is willing to upcast it to include you (or just spend it on you) then you'll get some great utility out of it. This is especially true if the other caster is also a warlock of at least 5th level (has to be MCed with at least a 5th level caster so at least a 10th level character, oof). It can also be beneficial if monks, fighters, and anyone else that gets benefits from short rests. Also, don't forget that a wizard has Arcane Recovery that can recover a third level slot starting at 5th level when they can cast the spell. But YMMV.
There are other strategies that can push the right tactic one way or the other. While you'll already have a lot of Cantrips with a Sorlock, it's also good to remember that Pact of the Tome can swipe cantrips from any class and makes them Warlock cantrips for you allowing you to cast them with Charisma. Didn't take Hexblade and wishing you could attack with charisma instead of dex or strength? You can take Shillelagh (seriously, read the spell). Have times when you need to attack and help defend at the same time? Vicious Mockery is now yours. There aren't loads of cantrips that aren't already available to you as a Sorlock, but Tomelock has access to every cantrip as a choice. Chain lock helps with scouting and a few social circumstances, not just "advantage on my attacks!"
18/2 may be the default choice for many characters or campaigns, but 17/3 is far from a bad choice.
Is your DM ignoring the 24 hr minimum per long rest? If not, it's unlikely you're doing 16hrs of adventuring with only one short rest. You might not be benefiting from the rest of the time you spend resting, but you're still able to take the rest. The only problem is finding a way to arrange it so that you can take a long rest followed by a series of short rests instead of a series of short rests followed by a long rest.
Yes were doing this rule
The only time multiple short rests would ever come up is a long dungeon crawl, but ive found that in those situations if youre smart with your spell slots/sorc points it rarely matters
If youre going balls to the wall every fight then you're gonna want more long rests than thematically makes sense and an extra short rest makes little difference.
Most DMs only run 1 big fight per long rest
It all comes down to what your campaign needs
For pure combat 18/2 is nearly always stronger. For pure utility id say it depends on if its the level the 18/2 gets the next spell level.
If you need rituals then 17/3 is probably even better utility wise at all levels
There's no 100% perfect answer to this question and its largely preference as the character will be competent in battle but fall a bit behind to optimized sharpshooter and GWM builds. But youll likely have a lot more utility and even be a big part of why those characters are doing big damage with things like haste
Well, if you're ignoring the rule, you probably don't need to sleep every 8hrs with 15m breaks in between for combat. That gives you 8 short rests to build up extra spell slots for your sorcerer.
so your suggesting that an adventuring day is 8 1 hour rests, 1 8 hour rest and constant fighting or exploring for 8 hours?
It doesn't ever work that way and unless you have a party of all short rest dependent people you're not going to want to keep short resting every hour for an hour, it breaks immersion and doesn't make sense. Despite the fact that you might have "downtime" the most common time this will ever come up is during a dungeon crawl, since I cant make more slots than I ever have. while im exploring a town or even traveling its rare to have more than 1-2 encounters per long rest so the only time this will ever come up is during a dungeon crawl
At that point you will find that most of the time there is maybe 1 short rest and possibly a long one after many many hours in the dungeon. TOA jumps out at me, theres no way you could do that without long rests. But its very rare for more than 2 short rests to EVER come up. You don't ever short rest 8 times in an adventuring day.
You don't need the rest of the party to take 8 short rests, their 24 hr day is 8hr long rest, adventure for up to 4hrs, 8hr long rest, adventure for up to 4hrs. You just take 8 short rests while they take a long rest.You're already taking 8+ short rests per day, you're just not declaring them. For most of the group a 24hr day will be 1hr (or whatever) adventuring, 15hr sitting around, (short resting without the benefits) 8hr long rest. What you need to do is find a way to make yours 1hr adventuring, 8hr long rest, 15 consecutive short rests, converting spell slots in between.As for the slots, unless it's a house rule, (in which case you have multiple house rules changing balance against you) you can make more slots than you start with. One of the possible tricks for pure sorcerers is to make a 4th level slot at level 6 or 5th level slot at 7-8, you can only use those slots to upcast spells, but you get more powerful spells than you would normally have. The restriction on converting slots is that you can't ever have more sorcery points than your sorcerer level.
Edit: Realized I got my wires crossed with another discussion on the topic without the 24hr limit.
I think it depends on your sorcerer class. With divine soul, some (potentially quickened) healing spells and the chain pact invocation "Gift of the Everliving Ones" your survival chances will skyrocket.
You still get 9th level sorcerer spells and returning to full hp in a bonus action after a monster hit you is extremely powerful (not to mention the awesome narrative).
Theres a big difference between "taking a short rest" and having time for a short rest as you mention. Not very often do you have 15 hours before where the party is sitting around and you can just convert and rest. In fact I have never seen that done in a campaign. You would be literally asking your group to sit around for 15 hours prior to going into a dungeon or doing it after when your about to Long rest anyways.
In theory that makes sense...In practice its like the Darkness Combo with Devils Sight....Sounds cool....but wont come up much as super useful due to how it ****s your party
Yes it is very useful, and the fact that the imp can be invisible and near you is also very useful for a healer, but the point of a Sorlock isn't to be a healer, thats more of a life cleric job, your a utility and EB cannon really. Personally id prefer to get my spells quicker over upping my healing powers when that's more my secondary job.
I was reading it not as you being a healer for the group, rather as something to be used like Second Wind for a Fighter. Being able to guarantee a max heal on a heal of any sort used on you just means your more efficient that way. Instead of Cure Wounds being 1d8 plus Spellcasting mod, it's now 8 plus spell casting mod. Potion of Healing is now 10 instead of 2d4+2. Your hit die will be 8+con mod and 6+con mod. It doesn't affect your heals on anyone else at all. If you are a Divine Soul Sorcerer, it does mean that you can take Warding Bond to cast on someone, stiffen them up a bit, soak some of their damage, and help the healer be more efficient when they have to heal you. I'm not talking about doing it to a tank or even a melee character, but there could be moments when the wizard needs extra help holding a concentration spell or something like that.
The idea may still not fit with your concept, which is fine, but it is another trick that 17/3 can do. If you are willing to forgo Agonizing Blast; Gift of the Ever-Living one's, Devil's Sight, Warding Bond cast on the other character and Darkness cast on you would make for a nice defensive position that still allows you to do good damage. It does take away a lot from the blasty Sorlock Default (2 second level spell slots, Agonizing Blast's extra damage, and flexibility to choose anything else for an invocation) and would understandably be not for everyone. It would be noted that Darkness wouldn't have to be cast by you for this to work, and a character could just hide behind or in the darkness if their main concern was to maintain concentration, but it's still another option.
If the party is taking long rests every few fights and the 24hr limit between long rests is enforced, 12hrs of sitting around wouldn't be surprising. Having 15 would be in the extreme 15 minute adventuring day version.
Except when you do sit around for 12 hours as you say you do it waiting until you can long rest. you dont ever sit around for more than 2 short rests worth unless your just "Waiting to LR"
At which point you LR and lose all the gains.
Which is why I said you had to arrange it so you're taking your long rest while the rest of the party has theirs "on cooldown" so you can short rest while they're taking their long rest. If nothing else, you can do this by skipping your long rest one day, instead sleeping during the time where you're incapable of benefiting from a long rest.
Jiendo, you've made three threads asking this same question. It sounds very much as if you've made up your mind. Perhaps take three threads' worth of discussion as a fair answer to your question, and make the 18/2 sorlock you clearly desire, hm?
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