I've played a lot of Pathfinder, but just started playing 5e with a couple of friends. The party consists of a rogue, a fighter, and my elf life cleric(1)/divination wizard (2). I don't care very much about dealing damage, my goal is to control the battlefield, and make sure no one on the team dies. I also have a dice control theme, hence guidance, bless, and portent. So, should I continue leveling in wizard, or should I move into bard and level in bard (inspiration + battlefield control)? If I did so, I would need to put my ability bonus into charisma, my stats are 10, 18, 14, 17, 13, 11. Thanks,
Every time you multi-class, you inevitably delay when you gain access to higher level spells. i.e. As a 5th level wizard, you would have access to 3rd level spells. As a Wiz2/Bard1/Cleric1, you will still only have 1st level spells, which is a major drawback when you could be slinging Counterspell, Fly, Haste, Hypnotic Pattern, etc...
I have a hard time imagining a single multiclass that would be worthwhile for a battlefield control wizard, let alone 2.
Once you hit 17th level, you can multi-class without penalty, but until then, it's probably not worth it.
If you want access to the widest variety of spells, you might consider Sorcerer (Divine Soul) to gain access to Cleric spells, but otherwise, meh...
If you absolutely need to multi-class, leave it with a single dip and buy scrolls for the spells you need on hand.
Even after 17th it is probably not worth it - the higher level abilities are better than lower levels abilties.
Most often I advise people to take no more than 3-5 total levels outside of your main class. Often 1 or 2 is best.
In addition, your are "MAD" Multiple Abilties Dependent. Cleric = Widom, Wizard = Intelligence, Bard = Charisma. Which means your Constition and Dexterity will end up being lower than could be.
Better to be Wis 18, Con 17, and put your 14 in either Cha or Dex, depending on your build.
With those stats I wouldn't dream of it. Your save DC for Cleric spells is just 11 and due to multiclassing you won't get your ASI until level 5 at the earliest so no Bard until level 6. The saves for your Cleric and Bard spells will be 12 at that point, and you will only get your spells to land on an enemy by accident. You will also drop even further behind in ASI and spells - with 2 levels of multiclassing you will be an entire spell level behind - you will only have level 2 spells when you are able to get bard rather than level 3. Wizard 4, Cleric 1, Bard 1 and level 2 wizard spells only. You will be so far behind the other party members that it will be hard and probably very disappointing unless your DM homebrews something. At which point this discussion becomes pointless.
it depends on what you're looking for out of the build... In your case, I probably wouldn't pick up Bard. Stick with your theme of control, and keep going Wizard/Cleric. (as an aside, I'm assumng you rolled stats? why is your Dex 18? See if you can talk your DM into moving the stats around, and put your two high ones in Int + Wis, and you'll be much better off)
I played a Rogue Assassin/Battlemaster Fighter/Ranger Gloomstalker, on the other hand, that was an absolute beast in ranged damage, with some battlefield control, and stealth/exploration... but it was very carefully mapped out, a high level campaign, and a super clear concept about what I was bringing to the table. That's the only time I ever see multiclassing really work. For everything you gain, you leave something behind, so it has to be worth it.
TLDR, focus on the character concept first, and then build that... but get really focused.
My main is a Lore Bard[Primary]/Wild Magic Sorc [6]/Divination Wiz[2] but you will notice my 2 main classes are both Cha spell casters and I only took the Wiz for the Portent ability.
My main is a Lore Bard[Primary]/Wild Magic Sorc [6]/Divination Wiz[2] but you will notice my 2 main classes are both Cha spell casters and I only took the Wiz for the Portent ability.
2 levels just for Portent is a heck of a big cost.
Adding to my earlier post, let me give you an example of one of my current characters. Bard 4 / Sorc 1 / Cleric 1.
I had planned on going SorLock 17/3 but on the first session of the game another player turned up with an almost identical character other than race, so I changed on the fly.
At 1st level I took Celestial Sorcerer giving me access to Cleric spells and also proficiency in constitution saves. Level 2 was going to be Warlock Pact of the Tome, and I was going to be a utility Blaster, however I changed to Bard and went for a buffer / debuffer that I have been interested in trying out. Bard and Sorc both use Charisma and so was still relatively SAD, and the large number of cantrips gave the character scope for attack and utility. From the Bard / Sorc combo I have ray of frost, vicious mockery, firebolt, poison spray, dancing lights, mold earth, mind sliver, sacred flame, and guidance.
But I realised that in our party we had 1 melee in heavy armour and 2 spell casters - 1 blaster and 1 control both of whom were in light armour and we were getting overwhelmed when facing multiple opponents. So I went for another multiclass into Cleric. 17 Bard / 2 Cleric / 1 Sorc
Twilight Domain gave me dark vision all armour and shields, and martial weapons, which lets me stand beside the Paladin when we go through doors if needed and back him up as an off tank. My wisdom is quite low so I don't use attack or debuff Cleric spells, I have light, mending and spare the dying as cantrips and use spells such as Bless which don't need attack rolls or saving throws.
She has 3rd level spell slots but only 2nd level bard spells and 1st level Cleric and Sorcerer spells. I upcast bane, healing and some of my blasting spells such as dissonant whispers, chaos bolt and guiding bolt (from Celestial Sorc allowing me to use Charisma). So I am still sort of able to keep up However the lack of 3rd level spells is noticeable. The trade off is barely worth it, and would not be remotely worth it without the ability to upcast. One of the saving graces as it were is that Charisma (maxed at 20) is used for all of my spell attacks, I have a save DC of 16 and a spell attack of 8 which keeps the character relevant. You are spreading it out across Intelligence for Wizard, Charisma for Bard and Wisdom for Cleric. Your spell DC's would be 14 for wizard or 12 for bard/cleric, and your spell attack would be 6 for wizard and 4 for cleric and bard spells. Realistically they are low, unless you are really careful and memorise monster stat blocks to know which saving throws to target, you are going to find you miss regularly - Even the lowly Goblin with a 15 AC will require you to roll a 9 or higher with wizard spells (roughly 55% hit rate) or 11 with bard / cleric spells (roughly 45% hit rate)
Multiclassing can and does work but you have to play to your strengths, try to chose a mix that really compliments each other, and plan it out well. The things you gain need to be significant in order to offset the things you lose. Wizard / Cleric / Bard may be fun from a purely thematic and roleplay perspective but it is really sub-par from a mechanical perspective and I think it will turn out to be very disappointing for you.
I have a level 4 Druid/cleric/sorcerer/wizard. The hardest part is just dealing if with all the options ...especially when you make a few spell scrolls. Fits in well with the character tough . It’s not as gimpy as you’d think if you focus on scaleable spells
In my opinion, a three class character would not be particularly effective in most situations. Your best way to do a ton of healing, though also some damage is probably going with an Aasimar, cleric character. This way you have access to a few major healing abilities, along with some damaging spells from the cleric class. My other suggestion would be to look at the newer monk subclass Way of Mercy. In this, you have access to all sorts of damage, and different ways to heal. Either of these options might work for your situation.
It depends, if you chose classes that are full casters then spell slot progression continues uninterrupted. In my example above I can upcast Bane using a 3rd level slot and target 5 enemies instead of 3. I can cast Guiding Bolt at level 3 and do 6d6 damage to a single target. Sure it is less effective than a Fireball or Lightning Bolt, but then Bards generally wouldn't have those spells anyway. Like I said, you do notice missing certain spells at times. There have been a number of times I missed not having Leomunds to camp in over night, but we muddle through.
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Sorry if this is the wrong place for this.
I've played a lot of Pathfinder, but just started playing 5e with a couple of friends. The party consists of a rogue, a fighter, and my elf life cleric(1)/divination wizard (2). I don't care very much about dealing damage, my goal is to control the battlefield, and make sure no one on the team dies. I also have a dice control theme, hence guidance, bless, and portent. So, should I continue leveling in wizard, or should I move into bard and level in bard (inspiration + battlefield control)? If I did so, I would need to put my ability bonus into charisma, my stats are 10, 18, 14, 17, 13, 11. Thanks,
Every time you multi-class, you inevitably delay when you gain access to higher level spells. i.e. As a 5th level wizard, you would have access to 3rd level spells. As a Wiz2/Bard1/Cleric1, you will still only have 1st level spells, which is a major drawback when you could be slinging Counterspell, Fly, Haste, Hypnotic Pattern, etc...
I have a hard time imagining a single multiclass that would be worthwhile for a battlefield control wizard, let alone 2.
Once you hit 17th level, you can multi-class without penalty, but until then, it's probably not worth it.
If you want access to the widest variety of spells, you might consider Sorcerer (Divine Soul) to gain access to Cleric spells, but otherwise, meh...
If you absolutely need to multi-class, leave it with a single dip and buy scrolls for the spells you need on hand.
Even after 17th it is probably not worth it - the higher level abilities are better than lower levels abilties.
Most often I advise people to take no more than 3-5 total levels outside of your main class. Often 1 or 2 is best.
In addition, your are "MAD" Multiple Abilties Dependent. Cleric = Widom, Wizard = Intelligence, Bard = Charisma. Which means your Constition and Dexterity will end up being lower than could be.
Better to be Wis 18, Con 17, and put your 14 in either Cha or Dex, depending on your build.
With those stats I wouldn't dream of it. Your save DC for Cleric spells is just 11 and due to multiclassing you won't get your ASI until level 5 at the earliest so no Bard until level 6. The saves for your Cleric and Bard spells will be 12 at that point, and you will only get your spells to land on an enemy by accident. You will also drop even further behind in ASI and spells - with 2 levels of multiclassing you will be an entire spell level behind - you will only have level 2 spells when you are able to get bard rather than level 3. Wizard 4, Cleric 1, Bard 1 and level 2 wizard spells only. You will be so far behind the other party members that it will be hard and probably very disappointing unless your DM homebrews something. At which point this discussion becomes pointless.
it depends on what you're looking for out of the build... In your case, I probably wouldn't pick up Bard. Stick with your theme of control, and keep going Wizard/Cleric. (as an aside, I'm assumng you rolled stats? why is your Dex 18? See if you can talk your DM into moving the stats around, and put your two high ones in Int + Wis, and you'll be much better off)
I played a Rogue Assassin/Battlemaster Fighter/Ranger Gloomstalker, on the other hand, that was an absolute beast in ranged damage, with some battlefield control, and stealth/exploration... but it was very carefully mapped out, a high level campaign, and a super clear concept about what I was bringing to the table. That's the only time I ever see multiclassing really work. For everything you gain, you leave something behind, so it has to be worth it.
TLDR, focus on the character concept first, and then build that... but get really focused.
My main is a Lore Bard[Primary]/Wild Magic Sorc [6]/Divination Wiz[2] but you will notice my 2 main classes are both Cha spell casters and I only took the Wiz for the Portent ability.
Also I built him background first. He is the luckiest Halfling alive!
https://ddb.ac/characters/39697581/w71R1w
2 levels just for Portent is a heck of a big cost.
Adding to my earlier post, let me give you an example of one of my current characters. Bard 4 / Sorc 1 / Cleric 1.
I had planned on going SorLock 17/3 but on the first session of the game another player turned up with an almost identical character other than race, so I changed on the fly.
At 1st level I took Celestial Sorcerer giving me access to Cleric spells and also proficiency in constitution saves. Level 2 was going to be Warlock Pact of the Tome, and I was going to be a utility Blaster, however I changed to Bard and went for a buffer / debuffer that I have been interested in trying out. Bard and Sorc both use Charisma and so was still relatively SAD, and the large number of cantrips gave the character scope for attack and utility. From the Bard / Sorc combo I have ray of frost, vicious mockery, firebolt, poison spray, dancing lights, mold earth, mind sliver, sacred flame, and guidance.
But I realised that in our party we had 1 melee in heavy armour and 2 spell casters - 1 blaster and 1 control both of whom were in light armour and we were getting overwhelmed when facing multiple opponents. So I went for another multiclass into Cleric. 17 Bard / 2 Cleric / 1 Sorc
Twilight Domain gave me dark vision all armour and shields, and martial weapons, which lets me stand beside the Paladin when we go through doors if needed and back him up as an off tank. My wisdom is quite low so I don't use attack or debuff Cleric spells, I have light, mending and spare the dying as cantrips and use spells such as Bless which don't need attack rolls or saving throws.
She has 3rd level spell slots but only 2nd level bard spells and 1st level Cleric and Sorcerer spells. I upcast bane, healing and some of my blasting spells such as dissonant whispers, chaos bolt and guiding bolt (from Celestial Sorc allowing me to use Charisma). So I am still sort of able to keep up However the lack of 3rd level spells is noticeable. The trade off is barely worth it, and would not be remotely worth it without the ability to upcast. One of the saving graces as it were is that Charisma (maxed at 20) is used for all of my spell attacks, I have a save DC of 16 and a spell attack of 8 which keeps the character relevant. You are spreading it out across Intelligence for Wizard, Charisma for Bard and Wisdom for Cleric. Your spell DC's would be 14 for wizard or 12 for bard/cleric, and your spell attack would be 6 for wizard and 4 for cleric and bard spells. Realistically they are low, unless you are really careful and memorise monster stat blocks to know which saving throws to target, you are going to find you miss regularly - Even the lowly Goblin with a 15 AC will require you to roll a 9 or higher with wizard spells (roughly 55% hit rate) or 11 with bard / cleric spells (roughly 45% hit rate)
Multiclassing can and does work but you have to play to your strengths, try to chose a mix that really compliments each other, and plan it out well. The things you gain need to be significant in order to offset the things you lose. Wizard / Cleric / Bard may be fun from a purely thematic and roleplay perspective but it is really sub-par from a mechanical perspective and I think it will turn out to be very disappointing for you.
Wiz is the last dip I do if I feel like it when I play that character.
My current iteration isn't going Wiz to try it without but the whole point of the build is I control fate (the dice)
I have a level 4 Druid/cleric/sorcerer/wizard. The hardest part is just dealing if with all the options ...especially when you make a few spell scrolls. Fits in well with the character tough . It’s not as gimpy as you’d think if you focus on scaleable spells
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In my opinion, a three class character would not be particularly effective in most situations. Your best way to do a ton of healing, though also some damage is probably going with an Aasimar, cleric character. This way you have access to a few major healing abilities, along with some damaging spells from the cleric class. My other suggestion would be to look at the newer monk subclass Way of Mercy. In this, you have access to all sorts of damage, and different ways to heal. Either of these options might work for your situation.
It depends, if you chose classes that are full casters then spell slot progression continues uninterrupted. In my example above I can upcast Bane using a 3rd level slot and target 5 enemies instead of 3. I can cast Guiding Bolt at level 3 and do 6d6 damage to a single target. Sure it is less effective than a Fireball or Lightning Bolt, but then Bards generally wouldn't have those spells anyway. Like I said, you do notice missing certain spells at times. There have been a number of times I missed not having Leomunds to camp in over night, but we muddle through.